5 ms·

I am not as hopeful as you but that would definitely be something Unions do seem to be making a big comeback

scarab92 5y ago
I sympathise with the employees, however unions have pratically zero chance of gaining concessions from Amazon. Amazon can give more shifts to non striking workers, train new employees in a matter of hours, leverage labour hire companies, bus in workers from other facilities, lean on FBM and other 3PL providers, increase automation. They also have a massive network of fulfilment centers and can easily just ship in fulfilled orders from elsewhere using non union trucking and last mile. Amazon also has deep pockets and a long time horizon, so worst case they'll just allow the facility to be shut down by strikes and let their customers know it'll take another day to deliver their order from elsewhere.
- giraffe_lady 5y ago
  Compelling argument for seizing and nationalizing amazon right there. That's power way beyond even monopoly, I can't see how it can be justified.
  - scarab92 5y ago
    What you are referring to is monopsony power, and Amazon isn't even close to having a monospony on warehouse labor. Warehousing is massive industry and even at their size Amazon is less than 10% of it. The most realistic solution is for workers to spend any spare time they have learning new skills to move into better industries. Trying to make pick pack roles not suck is not realistic.
- derefr 5y ago
  Strong unions can lobby for protections just like Amazon can. Municipalities could be persuaded to e.g. outlaw non-union (err, "non-licensed") logistics providers from delivering within the city limits; where "licensed" logistics companies are required to work with only "licensed" fulfillment centers, and so forth. Suddenly there'd be these centers of demand that could only be met by union shops.
  - scarab92 5y ago
    Local municipalities typically do not have the jurisidiction to regulate last mile delivery, let alone the desire to do so, and Amazon can always use USPS / FedEx / UPS which local municipalities won't be able to restrict.
  - CountSessine 5y ago
    Why would the municipality do that to homeowners, the majority of whom are not logistics warehouse employees but do want products delivered to them quickly and inexpensively? Like, just the game-theoretic analysis here suggests municipalities will want nothing to do with this.
- Melatonic 5y ago
  If enough warehouses unionize they could have a shot at it. But yeah - it is pretty damn hard at a huge scale to take on a behemoth like Amazon. I can see it happening if there is really a will to do it.
ngc248 5y ago
I feel its a cycle ... the absence of unions creates problems, people unionize .... having unions creates problems .... unions are disbanded ... rinse and repeat. On a general note ... life in general seems cyclical.
- Melatonic 5y ago
  We could solve this by probably just having better federal protection and laws surrounding unions (the EU is better in this regard) but unfortunately those some corporations have huge lobbying arms that make it difficult to get the government to do so

I sympathise with the employees, however unions have pratically zero chance of gaining concessions from Amazon. Amazon can give more shifts to non striking workers, train new employees in a matter of hours, leverage labour hire companies, bus in workers from other facilities, lean on FBM and other 3PL providers, increase automation. They also have a massive network of fulfilment centers and can easily just ship in fulfilled orders from elsewhere using non union trucking and last mile. Amazon also has deep pockets and a long time horizon, so worst case they'll just allow the facility to be shut down by strikes and let their customers know it'll take another day to deliver their order from elsewhere.

giraffe_lady 5y ago
Compelling argument for seizing and nationalizing amazon right there. That's power way beyond even monopoly, I can't see how it can be justified.
- scarab92 5y ago
  What you are referring to is monopsony power, and Amazon isn't even close to having a monospony on warehouse labor. Warehousing is massive industry and even at their size Amazon is less than 10% of it. The most realistic solution is for workers to spend any spare time they have learning new skills to move into better industries. Trying to make pick pack roles not suck is not realistic.
derefr 5y ago
Strong unions can lobby for protections just like Amazon can. Municipalities could be persuaded to e.g. outlaw non-union (err, "non-licensed") logistics providers from delivering within the city limits; where "licensed" logistics companies are required to work with only "licensed" fulfillment centers, and so forth. Suddenly there'd be these centers of demand that could only be met by union shops.
- scarab92 5y ago
  Local municipalities typically do not have the jurisidiction to regulate last mile delivery, let alone the desire to do so, and Amazon can always use USPS / FedEx / UPS which local municipalities won't be able to restrict.
- CountSessine 5y ago
  Why would the municipality do that to homeowners, the majority of whom are not logistics warehouse employees but do want products delivered to them quickly and inexpensively? Like, just the game-theoretic analysis here suggests municipalities will want nothing to do with this.
Melatonic 5y ago
If enough warehouses unionize they could have a shot at it. But yeah - it is pretty damn hard at a huge scale to take on a behemoth like Amazon. I can see it happening if there is really a will to do it.

ngc248 5y ago

I feel its a cycle ... the absence of unions creates problems, people unionize .... having unions creates problems .... unions are disbanded ... rinse and repeat. On a general note ... life in general seems cyclical.

Melatonic 5y ago
We could solve this by probably just having better federal protection and laws surrounding unions (the EU is better in this regard) but unfortunately those some corporations have huge lobbying arms that make it difficult to get the government to do so