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Job hunting while day-jobbing (2021)
- valleyjo 5y agoI couldn’t do it. I tried but it was too difficult for me to find a balance. I had to use my paternity leave to find a new job. if that didn’t work out I was going to quit after leave and continue looking full time. I made a lot of sacrifices and thankfully it was worth it in the end. But I realize so many folks can’t make such sacrifices.
- kraftman 5y agoIt was harder to interview while employed than while on paternity leave?
- yakak 5y agoI would like to assume having a kid wasn't just a ploy to get paternity leave..
- saagarjha 5y agoNo, it's definitely a ploy to get some time to interview around.
- dString 5y agoDo many companies ask for birth certificates?
- hungryforcodes 5y agoIt's a brilliant strategy with some long term side effects.
- cyberlurker 5y agoOne possibility could be that their partner picked up some of the parent work so they could interview.
- jorblumesea 5y agoDid uh, no one get suspicious when you didn't show any baby pictures?
- axg11 5y agoIn the new remote tech world, it’s easier than ever to interview while on the job. Obviously it depends on your meeting load and how regularly unplanned work/meetings arise. I have a suspicion this is another factor contributing to lower retention rates across the industry. Before the pandemic, if a recruiter contacted me I would have to weigh all the benefits of the role against the hassle of interviewing, including figuring out how to leave the office discreetly and potentially block off consecutive days. Now, it’s trivial for anyone to schedule interviews during hours without meetings. Effectively, the bar for accepting an interview loop from a candidate’s point-of-view is lower when they are fully remote. On the flip side, if you’re fully remote and find it difficult to job hunt while working, then that’s a good reason to leave! Your role likely isn’t giving you enough autonomy.
- ryandrake 5y agoFinding a job is not just interviewing. It's a massive time sink. Researching companies, filling out applications and web forms, "quick" phone chats with recruiters who refuse to just dump info over E-mail, re-studying fundamentals, grinding leetcode or other skills prep, doing company take-home tests and "challenges". And then for every 100 applications, you might get interviews at 10 companies, producing 1 offer. It's quite a bit of busy work, and if you have many work deliverables or are booked solid in meetings 8:30 to 6:00, you're not really going to have time to do it. I've always had to take blocks of time off (vacation or unpaid time off) in order to seriously get another job.
- gibolt 5y agoThe recruiter calls are the worst waste of time! On top of that, if a recruiting agency sets you up, you're looking at an additional call with each company recruiter and/or hiring manager, before even starting to interview. On top of that, each individual call/interview takes up some adjacent time to schedule + prep and occupies your headspace until it happens.
- BlargMcLarg 5y ago>producing 1 offer And then the resulting offer isn't even on par with your current comp. It's almost as if the entire thing is designed maliciously on purpose.
- ketzo 5y agoHonestly, this is just a great interview prep post in general, day-job or no.
- mhzsh 5y agoYeah, I mean the part of doing this while having a job shouldn’t be rocket science: “I have an appointment” is usually a good enough reason to take some time at the beginning or end of day.
- ketzo 5y agoEhh.. the social norms around this are pretty ingrained. People do feel weird just saying “I have an appointment” for a job interview — even though, like you’re saying, they shouldn’t. So I think writing like this, which explicitly spells out the ways in which this person “violated” these silly social norms, is good. It can kind of give people permission to do something they already know they should be allowed to do.
- nuancebydefault 5y ago"Job hunting while day jobbing" is that a thing? For people who have a day job and want to switch, I only see one real alternative: "job hunting after having quit their job". The alternative sounds more stressful to me. How is it any different from doing any personal project, e.g.improving one's house while having a day job? That said, the article has some good points, like: don't panic, your boss will not notice it so easily, and if so, it is not such a big deal -- you want to leave anyways.
- Apocryphon 5y agoAs difficult as it is to juggle a day job and interviews, that's how most employed people switch jobs. And it's particularly stressful in software, as that project is more intensive than just interviews, but also involves technical interview prep. Certainly, it's a shame that there's no short-term unemployment benefits for those who want to leave a job and commit full-time to finding a new one for a few months, while recovering from burnout or just resting.
- nuancebydefault 5y agoIn Belgium, during the notice period, it is allowed to take one day per week off for searching for a new job, while being paid that day by your company. Even when the employee gave their notice! What i mostly do is start the notice period only just after signing the new contract. You're not obliged to tell your old boss you already signed, so you can still take those days off.
- dgunay 5y agoFor those earlier in their career/without a lot of confidence built up, leaving your job without something lined up can be scary, and it is now the easiest it has ever been to interview on the job so why not keep the paychecks coming in?
- nuancebydefault 5y agoExactly my point. Even with built-up confidence, leaving without a contract in hand feels too scary.
- hizxy 5y agoYou’re crazy. Do not tell a trusted coworker about your intentions. It’s a risk. Shut up and interview. What’s the benefit of telling anyone at your current gig?
- nuancebydefault 5y agoIf the coworker is your friend, why not? It has helped me finding assurance and the coworkers even helped me finding a new job.
- hizxy 5y agoBecause they could unintentionally leak that info to the wrong people? I dunno I’m not that trusting.
- drekipus 5y agoI agree with this and it's what I did when I changed my employers. If they're your friends, you celebrate getting the job with them. Don't tell them the plans beforehand because that is just opening yourself up for problems. And you do end up looking a bit worse if you keep trying to find new places but not getting anywhere. (Not to say to distrust your friends; it's just that people chat naturally. secrets never remain secret for long.) I actually found my new job on stack overflow while i was searching for something while at work. I applied, had a month long interview, and I only told my friends when I was up to the final stages of the interview. but we were a cynical bunch and we were all lamenting to leave, so they enjoyed the idea of the place falling apart after I left. I also told them a few of my failures earlier in the year, so they knew what i was up to, but they often didn't have specifics that someone else in the company could try and pin me by.
- sneak 5y agoNothing to leak. You're totally allowed to interview while employed. It's not like you're cheating on a partner. You are expected to maximize revenue.
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- cebert 5y agoI wish interviewing wasn’t so involved and instead folks could enter trial periods with employers after some basic behavioral interviews.
- Gigachad 5y agoThis is less preferable to me. I'd rather not leave my current job until its almost certain that I will do well at the new one.
- vasco 5y agoMost jobs have probation periods on top of the interviewing, during which time it's way easier to fire an employee for any reason. This might work differently in the US where I guess you can always fire for any reason at any time regardless of probation.
- ghaff 5y agoYes, but in practice, unless business conditions really change or there's a major disconnect between you and the company of some sort, it's a safe assumption that a professional job will mostly set you up for a year or two. An explicit we'll see how things go for the next couple of months before we extend a real offer would set off a lot of alarm bells.
- dominotw 5y agoyea this is not a thing at all in USA prbly because jobs are at-will anyways.
- xeromal 5y agoMost companies in the US have a probationary period of 90 days. It's easier internally to fire, but yeah, in 49 states, you can be fired for no reason.
- dominotw 5y ago> Most companies in the US have a probationary period of 90 days. really? I've had over a dozen jobs but never had this. Suprised by 'most'.
- manesioz 5y agoWhen I was an intern at my first company, my term was nearing it's end and I wanted to get another role elsewhere. I booked a small meeting room during work hours for an interview, but as I was about to enter I noticed my boss was already in there. I guess he didn't check the schedule. Panicking, I had 2 minutes until the interview and nowhere to take it. I ended up going into the office gym and doing it on a bench while someone was running on a treadmill in the background. Funny times, I ended up getting the offer too.
- theteapot 5y agoWow, sounds rough!
- arthurcolle 5y ago"I'm really passionate about working for you... and physical fitness" AirPod hits you in the face mid-stride
- paxys 5y agoHope it wasn't a video interview
- JusticeJuice 5y agoAs a student there was this programme for summer internships where you'd do 10 min interviews with a bunch of companies. Sounds crazy but honestly good practice. I fucked one up by being 5 mins late - aka 50% gone. Lesson learnt haha. No I didn't get to the next step with them.
- zeroonetwothree 5y agoWhen I was a college student I did a few internship phone interviews on a random bench on campus (between classes). However it didn't go that well, lol
- scrose 5y agoJust because it wasn’t mentioned in the OP’s “Take a break” part, if you’re in the US and plan to take time off, definitely consider giving notice at a time that will carry your employment into the start of the following month. You’ll usually be able to keep your insurance for the entirety of the month instead of having to potentially go uninsured or pay full price on COBRA.
- Cd00d 5y agoNote that COBRA can be retroactive. If you're taking time off you don't have to start paying COBRA until you have a medical expense. If you avoid injury during your gap you don't have to pay.
- drc500free 5y agoAlso, drain your FSA before you leave. You don't have to pay it back.
- cosmiccatnap 5y agoAn hour a week!? The interviews I do are a gauntlet of everything under the sun across the entire spectrum of CS. You are basically cramming for your exit exams all over again AND you have to get soft skills in AND explain your job experience. It's frankly overkill for the majority of jobs
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- ineptech 5y ago> Take the time to outline answers to the common behavioral questions (“tell me about a conflict you had with a coworker” etc.) and practice talking through them, so you have examples at your fingertips. This is good advice, but do not try to predict the question in advance, just tell a story you were going to tell anyway. Meaning, you should have 3-5 stories about accomplishments you made or problems you solved, stories you can reel off easily in 1-2min without uhh-ing to remember details, and when they ask a "Tell me about a time when..." question, just pick whichever one comes closest and tell it.
- drc500free 5y agoI've looped my previous two bosses in on my job hunts. They were natural extensions of my career and personal development. For various reasons (geography, room for promotion, comp) there wasn't room to grow. I recommend seriously considering telling your boss you are looking. Don't do it if you are at all hesitant, but ideally it fits in with career conversations you're already having. And it definitely saved me a lot of embarrassment when an interviewer leaked that I was looking to my coworker, who immediately told my boss. That's not supposed to happen, but tech is small and people know each other.
- outworlder 5y ago> I recommend seriously considering telling your boss you are looking I seriously recommend _against_ this. Except in very particular and situational cases. If you decide to do anyway, be prepared to ramp up your job search, you might need it sooner than you anticipated. No, you won't immediately get fired because you are looking. Probably. However, this sets a flag in your manager's head. You are a 'flight risk', so they need to start preparing for your departure, even if it doesn't happen. This has the potential to start all sorts of gears in the larger machinery. There aren't many upsides of disclosing early in the process, and many potential downsides.
- drc500free 5y agoYes, definitely don't do it if you are just dabbling and aren't sure if you're leaving. I told one of them I was giving my 6 month notice, +/- 3 months.
- cyberlurker 5y agoEven that is a big NO in most cases. Giving a 6 months heads up is a quick way to get a smaller bonus, shit work, shit attitude, maybe even let go early.
- pjmlp 5y agoHere in Germany many work contracts can be up to one year notice depending on the seniority and business domain, so unless you are so lucky to find a job willing to wait for you that long, many have to give notice without really having an offer and hope for the best. However the usual notice period is around 4 weeks before each quartal end, miss that, and have to be around yet another quartal, unless HR and the boss agree with letting you going earlier.
- aynyc 5y agoDo people have hard time blocking out their calendar for interviews? For initial recruiter call (15 mins) or tech phone screen (1 hr), I just block that hour on my calendar. For on-site (virtual now), I just take a PTO. Last time around, I used about 7 PTO days for interviews (yes, 7 companies). I got an offer that I was happy with.
- angarg12 5y agoIs this such a difficult skill that needs a dedicated in-depth post? I though this was the norm. I have always interviewed while having a job. In fact I would find it weird and risky to leave your job to focus exclusively on interviewing. Heck, often I have interviewed around with no intention of leaving my job, just to check the market and see if I still have an edge.
- stemlord 5y agoYeah I'm currently job hunting while full-time working and found the implication that this is a difficult and unique scenario to be alarming. I can't quit just to job search because then I'd use up lord knows how much of my emergency savings. Can't collect unemployment if you quit (in my state at least).