4 ms·

How you choose to see what separates the two "sides" is quite interesting. You'll in fact find that it is not Vax/Anti-Vax but: 1. a group that needs the comf

How you choose to see what separates the two "sides" is quite interesting. You'll in fact find that it is not Vax/Anti-Vax but: 1. a group that needs the comforting reassurance of authority for security vs. 2. a group who regard their autonomy as paramount and see no need to have arbitrary rules forced on them.

ericmay 5y ago
> a group that needs the comforting reassurance of authority for security And I assume you say this when someone is getting surgery, buys ibuprofen, or gets a splint as well? > a group who regard their autonomy as paramount and see no need to have arbitrary rules forced on them In the specific context of vaccines at least in America, nobody is forcing anyone to take a vaccine so the position wouldn't make any sense. Maybe you want to clarify what you mean here? As an aside, this idea of autonomy here is a psychological reflex to control something about a situation that you have absolutely no control over. But it's really just an illusion. They're not more autonomous than anyone else is. A vaccine wouldn't make a difference in your autonomy, and in a really bad pandemic ala The Stand (Stephen King novel) you'd be forced at gunpoint to take a vaccine and you'd happily comply. It's all just lifestyle and cosplay at this point.
- mpalczewski 5y ago
  > in America, nobody is forcing anyone to take a vaccine so the position wouldn't make any sense. Employers, en masse, are forcing it as a condition of employment. I do agree with some of these employer mandates, e.g. airlines, because they increase connectivity and thus spread. Not so much with some others, e.g. clerical stay at home workers.
- bequanna 5y ago
  > As an aside, this idea of autonomy here is a psychological reflex to control something about a situation that you have absolutely no control over. It may be difficult for some to accept, but we as individuals have essentially total control over our own health and COVID was no exception. Essentially all serious COVID cases had multiple LIFESTYLE-casued comorbidities. The most prevalent: obesity.
  - ericmay 5y ago
    No not really. Like you can't choose to get COVID-19 or not. The only control you really have is the agency to get a vaccine or not, which is why it's so emotionally charged - it's the one thing people believe they can "control". So psychologically you grasp that because you're terrified of something you can't control (the pandemic). Comorbidities increase your risk or "serious COVID", just like being unvaccinated does. But that still doesn't satisfy anything. Comorbidities increase your risk, getting vaccinated decreases your risk substantially, so if you want to blame this "well only fat people get it", well sure. Most people are fat, therefore they should get the vaccine since you can do that in a very short period of time whereas weight loss takes a while and you may have other comorbidities that you can't actually control or change at all.
    - nradov 5y ago
      We've known that high body fat was a serious risk factor for over two years now. While I agree that everyone eligible should protect themselves by getting vaccinated, people who want to lose weight have had plenty of time to do so.
      - ericmay 5y ago
        Yea people should be healthy and lose weight. I couldn't agree more. Myself included. But aside from these asinine "fat positive" movements (which are very similar in pathology IMO to COVID deniers) nobody is out there advocating for people to ignore their weight and that drinking milkshakes just might not be bad for your heart. Next thing you know of course drinking milkshakes and eating burgers are ok. The government just wants to control what you eat!1! It's the exact same kind of nonsense.
AshleyGrant 5y ago
Actually, you'll find it is 1. a group that understands that if we all would act together in the interest of public health we could have greatly reduced the death toll of COVID-19 vs 2. a group of idiots who won't learn until they win themselves their own personal Herman Cain Award. Also, you apparently have no idea what "arbitrary" means.
- bequanna 5y ago
  > Also, you apparently have no idea what "arbitrary" means. Ah, right. They were just highly intelligent people "following the science". Not at all obsessed with stoking fear so they could seize control and consolidate power: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=arbitrary+six+foot+rule&ia=web https://duckduckgo.com/?q=arbitrary+six+foot+rule&ia=web
archagon 5y ago
And yet group 2 is the one that full-throatedly supported an authoritarian president. Funny, that!

ericmay 5y ago

> a group that needs the comforting reassurance of authority for security And I assume you say this when someone is getting surgery, buys ibuprofen, or gets a splint as well? > a group who regard their autonomy as paramount and see no need to have arbitrary rules forced on them In the specific context of vaccines at least in America, nobody is forcing anyone to take a vaccine so the position wouldn't make any sense. Maybe you want to clarify what you mean here? As an aside, this idea of autonomy here is a psychological reflex to control something about a situation that you have absolutely no control over. But it's really just an illusion. They're not more autonomous than anyone else is. A vaccine wouldn't make a difference in your autonomy, and in a really bad pandemic ala The Stand (Stephen King novel) you'd be forced at gunpoint to take a vaccine and you'd happily comply. It's all just lifestyle and cosplay at this point.

mpalczewski 5y ago
> in America, nobody is forcing anyone to take a vaccine so the position wouldn't make any sense. Employers, en masse, are forcing it as a condition of employment. I do agree with some of these employer mandates, e.g. airlines, because they increase connectivity and thus spread. Not so much with some others, e.g. clerical stay at home workers.
bequanna 5y ago
> As an aside, this idea of autonomy here is a psychological reflex to control something about a situation that you have absolutely no control over. It may be difficult for some to accept, but we as individuals have essentially total control over our own health and COVID was no exception. Essentially all serious COVID cases had multiple LIFESTYLE-casued comorbidities. The most prevalent: obesity.
- ericmay 5y ago
  No not really. Like you can't choose to get COVID-19 or not. The only control you really have is the agency to get a vaccine or not, which is why it's so emotionally charged - it's the one thing people believe they can "control". So psychologically you grasp that because you're terrified of something you can't control (the pandemic). Comorbidities increase your risk or "serious COVID", just like being unvaccinated does. But that still doesn't satisfy anything. Comorbidities increase your risk, getting vaccinated decreases your risk substantially, so if you want to blame this "well only fat people get it", well sure. Most people are fat, therefore they should get the vaccine since you can do that in a very short period of time whereas weight loss takes a while and you may have other comorbidities that you can't actually control or change at all.
  - nradov 5y ago
    We've known that high body fat was a serious risk factor for over two years now. While I agree that everyone eligible should protect themselves by getting vaccinated, people who want to lose weight have had plenty of time to do so.
    - ericmay 5y ago
      Yea people should be healthy and lose weight. I couldn't agree more. Myself included. But aside from these asinine "fat positive" movements (which are very similar in pathology IMO to COVID deniers) nobody is out there advocating for people to ignore their weight and that drinking milkshakes just might not be bad for your heart. Next thing you know of course drinking milkshakes and eating burgers are ok. The government just wants to control what you eat!1! It's the exact same kind of nonsense.

AshleyGrant 5y ago

Actually, you'll find it is 1. a group that understands that if we all would act together in the interest of public health we could have greatly reduced the death toll of COVID-19 vs 2. a group of idiots who won't learn until they win themselves their own personal Herman Cain Award. Also, you apparently have no idea what "arbitrary" means.

bequanna 5y ago
> Also, you apparently have no idea what "arbitrary" means. Ah, right. They were just highly intelligent people "following the science". Not at all obsessed with stoking fear so they could seize control and consolidate power: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=arbitrary+six+foot+rule&ia=web https://duckduckgo.com/?q=arbitrary+six+foot+rule&ia=web

archagon 5y ago

And yet group 2 is the one that full-throatedly supported an authoritarian president. Funny, that!