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Their selling points seem to be: - DuckDuckGo for Mac gives you privacy by default - DuckDuckGo for Mac is really fast! - DuckDuckGo for Mac is built for sec

Their selling points seem to be: - DuckDuckGo for Mac gives you privacy by default - DuckDuckGo for Mac is really fast! - DuckDuckGo for Mac is built for security. .. isn't that just (almost/good enough) Safari these days? Plus with Safari you typically get better battery life. And Apple's monetisation model makes me feel like they'll treat my privacy even better than a search engine. The only reason why sometimes I miss/use browsers like Brave is because of the Chrome Extensions.

curvilinear_m 5y ago
Where do the claims about battery life come from ? I couldn't find any independent review (yet) and I don't see any mention of it on their website.
- lrae 5y ago
  Not the OP making the claim, but I also looked for recent data and couldn't find any (especially for M1 macs because I just switched to one). So I just compared them myself for my typical work and media playback (Youtube & Twitch), just anecdotal and totally unscientific though, ranked by MacOs's Energy Impact with the best being 100%. All with the same extensions (if available, for Safari I used adguard instead of ublock origin). Safari Technlogy Preview: 100% Brave Beta: 110% Orion: 300% Firefox: 1200% :( While Safari also used slightly less memory, Brave is the best compromise for me for now. (e2ee sync, chrome extensions and with their crypto shenanigans disabled.) But again, not scientific at all and of course might differ for people depending on the extensions they use and their browsing behavior.
  - freediver 5y ago
    The number for Orion looks wrong (Orion dev here). It should be same or better than Safari as both are using WebKit with Orion being more lightweight. Would be happy to look into this if you can post methodology used at https://orionfeedback.org https://orionfeedback.org
- mbauman 5y ago
  I'd expect battery life to be similar (or maybe even better): > By using your computer’s built-in website rendering engine (the same one Safari uses), and by blocking trackers before they load (unlike all the major browsers), you’ll get really fast browsing.
yegg 5y ago
Privacy by default cannot be overstated. To really escape privacy harms, e.g., creepy ads and following you around and similar content targeting (filter bubbles), you need multi-pronged protection that actually blocks trackers from loading vs. just restricting them after you load. We have a detailed post that explains this here: https://spreadprivacy.com/browser-privacy-protection/ https://spreadprivacy.com/browser-privacy-protection/. "The issue is that once such trackers are loaded in your browser, they have a ton of ways to track you beyond just third-party cookies (e.g., by another form of cookies called first-party cookies, by your IP address, and much, much more). And many of these mechanisms cannot be turned off because the browser needs them to properly function." In addition to privacy though, I'd highlight a couple other things. - People prefer different UX and our UX is certainly different. It has been built from the ground-up to be clean -- less clutter, less icons, etc. - We're adding features we think make the browsing experience better. This includes our Fire Button (one-click data clearing for tabs, windows, or everything), our automatic cookie consent pop-up management, auto-blocking of Facebook embedded content, etc. We're working on more of these types of features, and taken together, they not only protect your privacy but should make everyday browsing less annoying.
nerdjon 5y ago
This is how I feel. Safari can still do a lot and I hope they continue to make it more private (no reason to believe they won't). But on Mac I stick with Safari not only because of the reasons you stated, but also because of iCloud (yes I know this breaks privacy but I trust Apple... mostly). I use Brave though on my Windows PC but I may switch too DDG, or at least give it a shot.
- core-utility 5y ago
  > but I trust Apple... mostly This for me is a big part of privacy. It's not about making sure nobody has my data, that's a near-impossible task and never ending. But if I can consolidate and limit who has my data to entities I trust slightly more than others, it's a win. Example, using a credit card comes with the inherent idea that you can be tracked. Your bank obviously tracks you and knows everything about you, Visa sees it all as using their network, and the third and most important, every merchant/vendor you visit can now track your purchase patterns and tie that with other information about you. Using Apple Pay, I'm giving Apple my purchase history at the benefit of having a randomized number for each transaction that the hundreds/thousands of vendors I shop at can't track me by.
  - nerdjon 5y ago
    What is interesting is for me, I kinda take the opposite approach. Kinda ... A lot of my information has been consolidated to Apple. I am not naive enough to trust them completely. But I feel like I have made a conscious choice of balancing privacy concerns with Apple (and their business practices for the use of that data) and the convenience of features. But in my opinion one of my biggest issue I have with companies like Facebook and Google is that consolidation. I would rather the companies only know bits (realistically none but considering both companies allow others to consent on my behalf... there isn't much I can do) instead of an entire pictures. Now I know that many of these companies sell data in the background. But I guess I have some weird level of... comfort knowing that they have to do extra work to piece the data about me together.
    - core-utility 5y ago
nicoburns 5y ago
Ad blocking support in Safari isn't great. A lot of the best extensions are a paid subscription, and the free ones seem to be noticeably worse the uBlock Origin.
- ezfe 5y ago
  Wipr is a one time fee of just a couple dollars, and it receives pretty consistent updates.
  - lilyball 5y ago
    I second a vote for Wipr. A few weeks ago something got temporarily screwed up in Safari and Wipr got disabled and I was shocked at how many ads I was suddenly seeing. I didn't realize quite how much stuff Wipr was blocking until then.
- mrweasel 5y ago
  I just use the Privacy Extension from DuckDuckGo. It’s not an ad-blocker, but blocking trackers just happen to block most ads.
  - Destiner 5y ago
    It's called "DuckDuckGo Privacy Essentials" for those will look it up in the AppStore.
em500 5y ago
The main reason I don't use Safari on the Mac is that all extensions (including ad-blockers) require an AppleID (because they have to come from the Apple App store), and I don't want to be forced to tie my laptop to any online account. If the DDG browser has as built-in good-enough ad-browser, I'll probably try it. Though I doubt it has any practical advantages over Firefox/Edge + uBlock Origin, which I'm using now.

curvilinear_m 5y ago

Where do the claims about battery life come from ? I couldn't find any independent review (yet) and I don't see any mention of it on their website.

lrae 5y ago
Not the OP making the claim, but I also looked for recent data and couldn't find any (especially for M1 macs because I just switched to one). So I just compared them myself for my typical work and media playback (Youtube & Twitch), just anecdotal and totally unscientific though, ranked by MacOs's Energy Impact with the best being 100%. All with the same extensions (if available, for Safari I used adguard instead of ublock origin). Safari Technlogy Preview: 100% Brave Beta: 110% Orion: 300% Firefox: 1200% :( While Safari also used slightly less memory, Brave is the best compromise for me for now. (e2ee sync, chrome extensions and with their crypto shenanigans disabled.) But again, not scientific at all and of course might differ for people depending on the extensions they use and their browsing behavior.
- freediver 5y ago
  The number for Orion looks wrong (Orion dev here). It should be same or better than Safari as both are using WebKit with Orion being more lightweight. Would be happy to look into this if you can post methodology used at https://orionfeedback.org https://orionfeedback.org
mbauman 5y ago
I'd expect battery life to be similar (or maybe even better): > By using your computer’s built-in website rendering engine (the same one Safari uses), and by blocking trackers before they load (unlike all the major browsers), you’ll get really fast browsing.

yegg 5y ago

Privacy by default cannot be overstated. To really escape privacy harms, e.g., creepy ads and following you around and similar content targeting (filter bubbles), you need multi-pronged protection that actually blocks trackers from loading vs. just restricting them after you load. We have a detailed post that explains this here: https://spreadprivacy.com/browser-privacy-protection/ https://spreadprivacy.com/browser-privacy-protection/. "The issue is that once such trackers are loaded in your browser, they have a ton of ways to track you beyond just third-party cookies (e.g., by another form of cookies called first-party cookies, by your IP address, and much, much more). And many of these mechanisms cannot be turned off because the browser needs them to properly function." In addition to privacy though, I'd highlight a couple other things. - People prefer different UX and our UX is certainly different. It has been built from the ground-up to be clean -- less clutter, less icons, etc. - We're adding features we think make the browsing experience better. This includes our Fire Button (one-click data clearing for tabs, windows, or everything), our automatic cookie consent pop-up management, auto-blocking of Facebook embedded content, etc. We're working on more of these types of features, and taken together, they not only protect your privacy but should make everyday browsing less annoying.

nerdjon 5y ago

This is how I feel. Safari can still do a lot and I hope they continue to make it more private (no reason to believe they won't). But on Mac I stick with Safari not only because of the reasons you stated, but also because of iCloud (yes I know this breaks privacy but I trust Apple... mostly). I use Brave though on my Windows PC but I may switch too DDG, or at least give it a shot.

core-utility 5y ago
> but I trust Apple... mostly This for me is a big part of privacy. It's not about making sure nobody has my data, that's a near-impossible task and never ending. But if I can consolidate and limit who has my data to entities I trust slightly more than others, it's a win. Example, using a credit card comes with the inherent idea that you can be tracked. Your bank obviously tracks you and knows everything about you, Visa sees it all as using their network, and the third and most important, every merchant/vendor you visit can now track your purchase patterns and tie that with other information about you. Using Apple Pay, I'm giving Apple my purchase history at the benefit of having a randomized number for each transaction that the hundreds/thousands of vendors I shop at can't track me by.
- nerdjon 5y ago
  What is interesting is for me, I kinda take the opposite approach. Kinda ... A lot of my information has been consolidated to Apple. I am not naive enough to trust them completely. But I feel like I have made a conscious choice of balancing privacy concerns with Apple (and their business practices for the use of that data) and the convenience of features. But in my opinion one of my biggest issue I have with companies like Facebook and Google is that consolidation. I would rather the companies only know bits (realistically none but considering both companies allow others to consent on my behalf... there isn't much I can do) instead of an entire pictures. Now I know that many of these companies sell data in the background. But I guess I have some weird level of... comfort knowing that they have to do extra work to piece the data about me together.
  - core-utility 5y ago

nicoburns 5y ago

Ad blocking support in Safari isn't great. A lot of the best extensions are a paid subscription, and the free ones seem to be noticeably worse the uBlock Origin.

ezfe 5y ago
Wipr is a one time fee of just a couple dollars, and it receives pretty consistent updates.
- lilyball 5y ago
  I second a vote for Wipr. A few weeks ago something got temporarily screwed up in Safari and Wipr got disabled and I was shocked at how many ads I was suddenly seeing. I didn't realize quite how much stuff Wipr was blocking until then.
mrweasel 5y ago
I just use the Privacy Extension from DuckDuckGo. It’s not an ad-blocker, but blocking trackers just happen to block most ads.
- Destiner 5y ago
  It's called "DuckDuckGo Privacy Essentials" for those will look it up in the AppStore.

em500 5y ago

The main reason I don't use Safari on the Mac is that all extensions (including ad-blockers) require an AppleID (because they have to come from the Apple App store), and I don't want to be forced to tie my laptop to any online account. If the DDG browser has as built-in good-enough ad-browser, I'll probably try it. Though I doubt it has any practical advantages over Firefox/Edge + uBlock Origin, which I'm using now.