9 ms·

What Le Corbusier got right about office space

156 points by simonebrunozzi 5y ago

janandonly 5y ago
Interesting remark: > Le Corbusier’s Pessac is now viewed as an architectural success. The picket fences and the pitched roofs and the garden gnomes are gone, and his original vision is restored. I wonder if Le Corbusier himself would have approved of that. The very fact that his designs were so easily modified was, arguably, their strength. When he was told about the garden gnomes of Pessac, he replied, “You know, life is always right; it is the architect who is wrong.” Managers should remember that.
- KarlKemp 5y ago
  Street View: https://www.google.com/maps/place/Cité+Frugès,+33600+Pessac,+Frankreich/@44.7984012,-0.6482421,3a,75y,6.77h,100.7t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sbq10G97uv2aza4yl9ujK5A!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!4m5!3m4!1s0xd54d91a67fb3a7f:0x3b37b30fc18ab758!8m2!3d44.799!4d-0.6477?hl=de https://www.google.com/maps/place/Cité+Frugès,+33600+Pessac,... It's somewhat run-down, if not poor. But it doesn't strike me as being particularly terrible. It seems to have had quite a bit variety even from the start. Compare to what may have been the alternative, right across the train tracks: https://www.google.com/maps/place/Cité+Frugès,+33600+Pessac,+Frankreich/@44.7984701,-0.6465358,3a,75y,121.54h,115.09t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sL6STDDUHbmuT-S8QsnOO4w!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DL6STDDUHbmuT-S8QsnOO4w%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D320.2786%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192!4m5!3m4!1s0xd54d91a67fb3a7f:0x3b37b30fc18ab758!8m2!3d44.799!4d-0.6477 https://www.google.com/maps/place/Cité+Frugès,+33600+Pessac,...
  - ghosty141 5y ago
    Like others have mentioned, it's not impressive if you look at it like something built in the 70s/80s but they are ~100 years old by now which makes it quite impressive in my opinion.
pfarrell 5y ago
I’ve had a good number of jobs in 20+ years in software. I have had a private office four times. Once when the business unit was failing and my room only had me in it. Once when I worked for a small old school family company. Once when I made principal engineer after years of work in a large-ish company. And finally now that I’m working from home. One job I had was really noisy and distracting. Rather than install sound mitigation, I found out the CEO liked it that way. “So it sounded like things were happening.” It’s going to take a lot to get me back to a cube farm or open office.
- sceadu 5y ago
  noise pollution, same as regular pollution... it's an indicator of activity but not healthy for you
- zrail 5y ago
  I've been working from home for almost a decade, two thirds of my career to date. Prior to that I was in either open bullpen-style offices (everyone in a room facing out) or sharing an office with two or three other people. I will never* sign up for an in-office job again. * unless, you know, I need to feed my family or whatever
  - pfarrell 5y ago
    Totally agree and exactly the same asterisk I was thinking of with my pronouncement.
- cwilkes 5y ago
  Now it clicks why cube farms are popular: it is an easy way for managers / owners to feel the excitement of the agora but being up in the box seats they don’t have to live or think in it.
  - saalweachter 5y ago
    To be honest, I don't mind cube farms per se as much as densification. As long as you have a certain number of square feet and things aren't bolted down, you can still exercise a certain amount of control over your environment. You can rotate your desk to face a different way, put up pictures or a coat rack, what have you. It's when you start getting squeezed in the minimal legal square footage that all the options start to go away -- you literally can't move your desk without disrupting the entire floor, you can't add a bookshelf and any plants or pictures need to fit on your suspiciously narrow desk. Sure, cube farms have many of the other problems of noise pollution, minimal privacy, and bad lighting, but as long as you have your own cube, or a cube with few enough people to haggle over rearranging, and a few extra square feet it's still possible to put your stamp on it.
bouvin 5y ago
I am a huge fan of Le Corbusier – here's a page about Cité Frugès de Pessac (the text may be in French, but the pictures are not!) [1]. For anyone entertaining thoughts about functionalist architecture only being boxes, I turn your attention to the beautiful Notre Dame du Haut in Ronchamp [2]. [1] https://www.pessac.fr/a-decouvrir/tourisme-patrimoine/cite-fruges-le-corbusier-539.html https://www.pessac.fr/a-decouvrir/tourisme-patrimoine/cite-f... [2] http://www.alluringworld.com/notre-dame-du-haut/ http://www.alluringworld.com/notre-dame-du-haut/
- dr_dshiv 5y ago
  May I ask why? He always struck me as someone a bit disconnected from how humans actually work. Stewart Brand has a show about all the changes people had to make his buildings livable. * edit: I hadn’t read the article! It’s awesome
  - bouvin 5y ago
    I suppose that I have always found his designs very beautiful. (I also happen to enjoy the aesthetics of (good) brutalist architecture).
  - brohee 5y ago
    The show was made after his book. The book is on archive.org https://archive.org/details/howbuildingslear00bran_0/page/n5/mode/2up https://archive.org/details/howbuildingslear00bran_0/page/n5... His videos are on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/user/brandst/videos https://www.youtube.com/user/brandst/videos
  - drstewart 5y ago
    >May I ask why? He always struck me as someone a bit disconnected from how humans actually work While it's popular to dump on Corbusier today, especially with the hindsight of history and what we know about urban planning now (and I mostly agree with it), you have to look through the lens of what he was working with at the time. City centers were areas of blight, not hip places with third wave coffee shops on them. Waterfronts were dilapidated docks, not pleasant beaches with views of the sea. On the flip side, cars were new, shiny, and free of any of the negative connotation we see in them today (traffic, pollution, noise). Any infrastructure built to support them was fresh and efficient. It's no surprise that you'd have some people going all in on the latter. In hindsight, it turns out to be unfortunate that viewpoint won so thoroughly in the US.
jules 5y ago
I don't understand this article. Le Corbusier is the epitome of the opposite: architecture that architects love, but that the people who have to live or work in it hate. The article attempts to shift the blame to managers, but there is hardly a better example of forcing stuff onto people against their will than Le Corbusier and his disciples. That Le Corbusier's Pessac is now viewed as an architectural success says more about the standards of contemporary architecture than about Pessac. Here's a picture advertising the place: https://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-s/0e/f7/9d/67/cite-fruges.jpg https://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-s/0e/f7/9d/67/... Is that supposed to be a grand achievement of one of the most famous architects? So what exactly did Le Corbusier get right, according to the article? "The very fact that his designs were so easily modified was, arguably, their strength." -- this is what fans of Le Corbusier always praise him for, and it always sounds really bad to me. The main strength of the architecture is that you have to radically change it to make it liveable...? That he said “You know, life is always right; it is the architect who is wrong.” when people made radical changes? I guess that's more laudable than trying to fight the change, but also a very low bar.
- noneeeed 5y ago
  It's a very light article with a title that over-promises. The fact that Pessac was easily modified appears to be accidental, and the article finishes with a passing comment by LC that I wholeheartedly agree with, but doesn't really amount to much. Feels like something dashed off to somehow prove a point? I very much like Tim Harford's reporting when it comes to statistics and numbers in life and the news (his More Or Less radio programme/podcast is great) and his older stuff on economics, but his more recent obsession with "cautionary tales" (the title of his other podcast) frequently seems to involve stories that are superficially interesting but frequently fail to convince me that they have a strong point.
  - 4gotunameagain 5y ago
    > The fact that Pessac was easily modified appears to be accidental Why is it accidental in your opinion? Corbusier's Five Points of Architecture[1] specifically dictate free design of f.x. the ground plan, in order to facilitate further modification. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Le_Corbusier%27s_Five_Points_of_Architecture https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Le_Corbusier%27s_Five_Points_o...
Spooky23 5y ago
I wouldn’t attribute this to the triumph of modern architecture. More a really obvious lesson that even when faced with hideous modern architecture, people with agency will make do. I spent several years working in a monumental modernist building. The place succeeded in its primary design goals: glorifying the architect and patron. Some of the exteriors & public spaces were not hideous. But the buildings as a place to work were awful and not fit to purpose.
alvah 5y ago
Theodore Dalrymple's article on Le Corbusier sums up the hubris of modern architects & modern architecture: https://www.city-journal.org/html/architect-totalitarian-13246.html https://www.city-journal.org/html/architect-totalitarian-132...
- nemo44x 5y ago
  It’s not only hubris but also dehumanizing. It’s just so detached from how people want to live and in many cases amplified social problems and dysfunction.
xtiansimon 5y ago
Architecture article without photos? Meh.
beaconstudios 5y ago
There's a fundamental conflict of interest between workers and managers, and given that managers have all the power, they usually win. Workers want control in the form of autonomy, managers want control in the form of bureaucracy. A good manager, in my mind, devolves as much control as they can down to the workers while maintaining enough bureaucratic control to satisfy those above them. Of course, that only applies to the traditional hierarchical organisation - there are much more worker-friendly organisational structures organised around autonomy for the individual and democracy for the collective, like the VSM [1] and cooperatives [2]. Of course, we don't see them very often because people usually found companies to control for themselves. 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viable_system_model https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viable_system_model 2: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cooperative https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cooperative
DrBazza 5y ago
With the hindsight of history I find Le Corbusier vastly overrated. It just seems that in the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king, and that was certainly true in that era. I can appreciate that it was "hey, here's a new material, and new techniques, let's see what we can do", but it all went a bit to far with Brutalism. To be honest, we're back at that point again over the last couple of decades with office buildings that are largely glass exteriors where the current glut of architects are putting "frilly bits" on the buildings to make them a bit less bland, but at the same time making them look very much "of the moment". As for current homes, in the UK, at least, the architecture has never been blander. Boring boxes with 2 car spaces and a bit of grass out the back. In terms of the article, I don't see how modern homes can be given much extra character by the owners versus those designed by Corbusier mentioned in the article. If anything modern house architecture is at a worse, lower point than in previous years.
- makeitdouble 5y ago
  It could be the same trend as in fashion: a huge chunk of the population cares way less about social signaling and extra character, especially when it comes with more maintenance cost and no more functionality. This is an article that I find sums well the issues, even as the author is I think more aligned with your views and wished for more “Architecture” as Art. https://www.lifeofanarchitect.com/architecture-form-function-object/ https://www.lifeofanarchitect.com/architecture-form-function...
  - DrBazza 5y ago
    Interesting article. You're right, I guess, I prefer architecture as (classical) art. My preferred architecture is largely anything Art-Deco or earlier, and most buildings (not necessarily houses) built in the late 80s-90s (oddly, specific, I know). The brutalist stuff in London (the South Bank, the Barbican, QEII centre, and so on), I'd pull down in an instant if I were in charge (which is probably a good reason for me not to be in charge of anything tbh).
probably_wrong 5y ago
> The Chiat-Day office redesign has become a notorious cautionary tale, warning what happens when style is put ahead of substance and hot-desking goes too far I had never heard about this "cautionary tale", so I dug around a bit and found this Wired article [1] plus some pictures of the tiny lockers for the "dog pictures, or whatever" in this other article [2]. I'm not sure I would take it as the final nail in the coffin for the open-office concept, seeing as some of the problems are no longer relevant (such as not enough mobile phones for everyone), but it's an interesting article nonetheless. [1] https://www.wired.com/1999/02/chiat-3/ https://www.wired.com/1999/02/chiat-3/ [2] https://workplaceinsight.net/a-just-in-time-lesson-about-office-design-that-removes/ https://workplaceinsight.net/a-just-in-time-lesson-about-off...
- scrumper 5y ago
  I found that too. It’s relevant today I think, as office-based companies start to think about hybrid futures.
deleted 5y ago
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brohee 5y ago
I honestly expected a blank page, as a statement.
- awiesenhofer 5y ago
  Turn off JS and you're almost there! Ok, it will load the header and footer but apparently also displaying a text-only article without Javascript is asking too much (Reader mode works though)
motoboi 5y ago
I can’t recommend enough the book Cubed. It’s the history of the idea of the office. The evolution of the open plan is told in a fascinating way, but also the origin of the office worker. https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/18209337-cubed https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/18209337-cubed
cudgy 5y ago
“It should be easy for the office to provide a vastly superior working environment to the home, because it is designed and equipped with work in mind. “ It should be, but most companies offer uncomfortable furniture in an open, noisy room with drab carpet and the stench of burnt coffee and burnt popcorn. “Few people can afford the space for a well-designed, well-specified home office. Many are reduced to perching on a bed or coffee table. “ Maybe this is true in Silicon Valley, but the rest of the world could easily outfit a corner of a room to a better standard than most corporate offices.
- yohannparis 5y ago
  Not necessarily, I live in downtown Toronto, ON, and I rent an apartment for my needs. These needs did not include working from home! I could move and find a better place to allow me to work from home properly, but unless my employer pays for it, or give me a raise to compensate for it, I'll find a better paying job.
  - nukemaster 5y ago
    I was working out of a studio apartment until this year and I honestly didn't feel like my WFH set up took up any real extra space: In the beginning I would use the breakfast bar and just put the laptop up after work. Later on I bought an Ikea arm chair and an end table that just stayed in a corner I didn't use. This is all in addition to the partitioned off area for my side projects that had it's own desk and chair.
- bodge5000 5y ago
  Whilst I was moving out and inbetween places, my "home office" was close to perched on a coffee table, and even that I'd take over a big open plan office (or possibly even my own private office).
- ghosty141 5y ago
  >but the rest of the world could easily outfit a corner of a room to a better standard than most corporate offices. I disagree. Most people don't make enough money to have on room they can dedicate to work. In germany where I live rent is so expensive that for a single person a 2 room apartment is the standard. You basically need 3 rooms which means you're paying significantly more rent unless you live in very rural areas.
Marazan 5y ago
Ah, I did not realise it was from Le Corbusier that the brutalist's obsession with flat roofs came from. There is no greater symbol of the absolute anti human idiocy of the movement than: A) constructing a flat roof building on the west coast of Scotland (200+ rain days a year) B) declare it a master piece https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/St_Peter%27s_Seminary,_Cardross https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/St_Peter%27s_Seminary,_Cardr...
- beaconstudios 5y ago
  There does seem to be a strong cultural thread in architecture that views the profession as more art than design. If I have to live and work in a building, I would much rather it was designed with me in mind than being the architect's expression of personal style. Edit: to be fair, this criticism could also be levelled at programmers and interface designers.
  - arturinios 5y ago
    As someone who is just coming to the end of his architectural education and having worked in the industry for about 7 years now I can say this is largely a problem with academia in arhtecture which sees itself as some kind of pseudo-philosophical subject. Building regulations in most countries that I have worked in, for better or for worse, will not allow for architects to pull off what the modernists or the post modernists did anymore. (This is not to say that there aren't people out there still churning out poorly thought out buildings)
    - mikro2nd 5y ago
      "not allow for architects to pull off what the modernists or the post modernists did anymore" Thank all gods for that!
    - beaconstudios 5y ago
      That sounds like architects have been tempered by regulations moreso than having changed ambitions though, am I missing something? My understanding is that the modernist and postmodernist icons were not academics but practicing architects, sometimes both.
invalidusernam3 5y ago
Off topic, but the scrolling on that site is completely borked. Please, for the love of all that is good, don't mess with default scrolling behaviour on websites
- ahaferburg 5y ago
  Try reader mode if you can.
anonu 5y ago
An article on architecture with no pictures is a tough read.
- eternalban 5y ago
  Here are the pictures, before and after. http://arts-plastiques.ac-besancon.fr/2018/03/03/la-cite-fruges-de-le-corbusier-a-pessac-gironde/ http://arts-plastiques.ac-besancon.fr/2018/03/03/la-cite-fru... Having those pictures included in the article would make a mockery of its content and intended points (whatever it was). Would any sane person object to the renovation from that squalid state to a bright and inviting building? Were those "modifications" sound or was poor Corbu overestimating the occupants (his actual error as an architect).
bocytron 5y ago
> You know, life is always right; it is the architect who is wrong. I find this quote very interesting and resonates with UX engineering as well.
axiomsEnd 5y ago
The part about workers reacring really bad to forced rearragements reminds me of a time, when company removed flowers from my desk. Somehow this hurted more than bad micromanager and problematic coworkers. Edit : Everyone could have flowers and they were given by the company earlier. Just mine dissapeared.
chetanbhasin 5y ago
I almost thought this article was about the film "Office Space."
mschuster91 5y ago
> Few people can afford the space for a well-designed, well-specified home office. Many are reduced to perching on a bed or coffee table. For what it's worth I actually prefer a bed or sofa. Way more flexible and less painful if your back is shot.
aarghh 5y ago
Here is a more detailed look at the Pessac story: https://www.philipsteadman.com/blog/life-is-always-right-it-is-the-architect-who-is-wrong/ https://www.philipsteadman.com/blog/life-is-always-right-it-...
tristor 5y ago
Perhaps I am privileged by living in a very low cost of living area, but it was no great difficulty even in the beginning of my tech career to acquire a SFH w/ enough bedrooms that I could dedicate one to being an office. I even have a mini-split AC in my home office so I can keep the temperature at a comfortable working level (cooler) compared to the rest of the house in a cost-efficient manner. I have no idea who these people are that think a company office intended for hundreds or thousands of people will be a better work environment than private offices per person or dedicated home offices. In my home office, I put significant effort into comfort and ergonomics and it yielded a huge improvement in my quality of life and a cost-savings to my employer due to not needing regular physical therapy for back pain anymore, and solving RSI that would have otherwise required surgery. Yet, if I go into an office to work they buy the cheapest "task chair" they can get and put everyone at tiny minimum spec desks. Even when I had a private office earlier in my career when that was still a thing, the furniture was garbage. At home, I have a sit/stand desk with electric lift, ergonomic monitor and laptop arms, a nice herman miller ergo chair, an ergonomic mechanical keyboard, and a vertical mouse, with everything properly adjusted by an ergo consultant I hired. I've never seen a company that would be willing to provide a similar setup, even setting aside the privacy and quiet aspect of a dedicated office vs cube/open. At the end of the day, company office space is expensive and management cost optimizes by reducing worker quality of life. I'd much rather they allow permanent remote work and pass the cost savings on to workers by covering the cost of ergonomic equipment. I've now been permanently remote for almost a decade, and I will never go back to the office.
MivLives 5y ago
Been interesting coming back to the office. The office I work in is seven floors of open office. Everyone up to and including the CEO has the same desk. A standing desk (6 feet wide, white), dual monitor arms hosting some combination of 24 inch 1080p panels, or 27 1440p panels, file cabinet (white, top made to be sat on), and chair (black, mesh back, fabric bottom). Before the pandemic you found your way around by decorations provided by the workers. "Take a left at the Darth Vader cardboard cut out, if you see the tiki hut you've gone too far". Since coming back though all those decorations are gone. The place feels even more lifeless then before. Part of this because many people just aren't coming in, and partly because a lot of people have moved to WFH, or another company. I don't think those decorations are ever coming back, and it sure feels a lot worse.
anm89 5y ago
Of course, blame the people who had to live in the houses and modified them to be livable for not understanding the architect's vision, not the architect for designing houses people hated living in so much they felt they needed modification before living in them.
gweinberg 5y ago
TL:DR Le Corbusier was right when he said life is always right and the architect is always wrong.

Interesting remark: > Le Corbusier’s Pessac is now viewed as an architectural success. The picket fences and the pitched roofs and the garden gnomes are gone, and his original vision is restored. I wonder if Le Corbusier himself would have approved of that. The very fact that his designs were so easily modified was, arguably, their strength. When he was told about the garden gnomes of Pessac, he replied, “You know, life is always right; it is the architect who is wrong.” Managers should remember that.

KarlKemp 5y ago
Street View: https://www.google.com/maps/place/Cité+Frugès,+33600+Pessac,+Frankreich/@44.7984012,-0.6482421,3a,75y,6.77h,100.7t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sbq10G97uv2aza4yl9ujK5A!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!4m5!3m4!1s0xd54d91a67fb3a7f:0x3b37b30fc18ab758!8m2!3d44.799!4d-0.6477?hl=de https://www.google.com/maps/place/Cité+Frugès,+33600+Pessac,... It's somewhat run-down, if not poor. But it doesn't strike me as being particularly terrible. It seems to have had quite a bit variety even from the start. Compare to what may have been the alternative, right across the train tracks: https://www.google.com/maps/place/Cité+Frugès,+33600+Pessac,+Frankreich/@44.7984701,-0.6465358,3a,75y,121.54h,115.09t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sL6STDDUHbmuT-S8QsnOO4w!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DL6STDDUHbmuT-S8QsnOO4w%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D320.2786%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192!4m5!3m4!1s0xd54d91a67fb3a7f:0x3b37b30fc18ab758!8m2!3d44.799!4d-0.6477 https://www.google.com/maps/place/Cité+Frugès,+33600+Pessac,...
- ghosty141 5y ago
  Like others have mentioned, it's not impressive if you look at it like something built in the 70s/80s but they are ~100 years old by now which makes it quite impressive in my opinion.

pfarrell 5y ago

I’ve had a good number of jobs in 20+ years in software. I have had a private office four times. Once when the business unit was failing and my room only had me in it. Once when I worked for a small old school family company. Once when I made principal engineer after years of work in a large-ish company. And finally now that I’m working from home. One job I had was really noisy and distracting. Rather than install sound mitigation, I found out the CEO liked it that way. “So it sounded like things were happening.” It’s going to take a lot to get me back to a cube farm or open office.

sceadu 5y ago
noise pollution, same as regular pollution... it's an indicator of activity but not healthy for you
zrail 5y ago
I've been working from home for almost a decade, two thirds of my career to date. Prior to that I was in either open bullpen-style offices (everyone in a room facing out) or sharing an office with two or three other people. I will never* sign up for an in-office job again. * unless, you know, I need to feed my family or whatever
- pfarrell 5y ago
  Totally agree and exactly the same asterisk I was thinking of with my pronouncement.
cwilkes 5y ago
Now it clicks why cube farms are popular: it is an easy way for managers / owners to feel the excitement of the agora but being up in the box seats they don’t have to live or think in it.
- saalweachter 5y ago
  To be honest, I don't mind cube farms per se as much as densification. As long as you have a certain number of square feet and things aren't bolted down, you can still exercise a certain amount of control over your environment. You can rotate your desk to face a different way, put up pictures or a coat rack, what have you. It's when you start getting squeezed in the minimal legal square footage that all the options start to go away -- you literally can't move your desk without disrupting the entire floor, you can't add a bookshelf and any plants or pictures need to fit on your suspiciously narrow desk. Sure, cube farms have many of the other problems of noise pollution, minimal privacy, and bad lighting, but as long as you have your own cube, or a cube with few enough people to haggle over rearranging, and a few extra square feet it's still possible to put your stamp on it.

bouvin 5y ago

I am a huge fan of Le Corbusier – here's a page about Cité Frugès de Pessac (the text may be in French, but the pictures are not!) [1]. For anyone entertaining thoughts about functionalist architecture only being boxes, I turn your attention to the beautiful Notre Dame du Haut in Ronchamp [2]. [1] https://www.pessac.fr/a-decouvrir/tourisme-patrimoine/cite-fruges-le-corbusier-539.html https://www.pessac.fr/a-decouvrir/tourisme-patrimoine/cite-f... [2] http://www.alluringworld.com/notre-dame-du-haut/ http://www.alluringworld.com/notre-dame-du-haut/

dr_dshiv 5y ago
May I ask why? He always struck me as someone a bit disconnected from how humans actually work. Stewart Brand has a show about all the changes people had to make his buildings livable. * edit: I hadn’t read the article! It’s awesome
- bouvin 5y ago
  I suppose that I have always found his designs very beautiful. (I also happen to enjoy the aesthetics of (good) brutalist architecture).
- brohee 5y ago
  The show was made after his book. The book is on archive.org https://archive.org/details/howbuildingslear00bran_0/page/n5/mode/2up https://archive.org/details/howbuildingslear00bran_0/page/n5... His videos are on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/user/brandst/videos https://www.youtube.com/user/brandst/videos
- drstewart 5y ago
  >May I ask why? He always struck me as someone a bit disconnected from how humans actually work While it's popular to dump on Corbusier today, especially with the hindsight of history and what we know about urban planning now (and I mostly agree with it), you have to look through the lens of what he was working with at the time. City centers were areas of blight, not hip places with third wave coffee shops on them. Waterfronts were dilapidated docks, not pleasant beaches with views of the sea. On the flip side, cars were new, shiny, and free of any of the negative connotation we see in them today (traffic, pollution, noise). Any infrastructure built to support them was fresh and efficient. It's no surprise that you'd have some people going all in on the latter. In hindsight, it turns out to be unfortunate that viewpoint won so thoroughly in the US.

jules 5y ago

I don't understand this article. Le Corbusier is the epitome of the opposite: architecture that architects love, but that the people who have to live or work in it hate. The article attempts to shift the blame to managers, but there is hardly a better example of forcing stuff onto people against their will than Le Corbusier and his disciples. That Le Corbusier's Pessac is now viewed as an architectural success says more about the standards of contemporary architecture than about Pessac. Here's a picture advertising the place: https://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-s/0e/f7/9d/67/cite-fruges.jpg https://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-s/0e/f7/9d/67/... Is that supposed to be a grand achievement of one of the most famous architects? So what exactly did Le Corbusier get right, according to the article? "The very fact that his designs were so easily modified was, arguably, their strength." -- this is what fans of Le Corbusier always praise him for, and it always sounds really bad to me. The main strength of the architecture is that you have to radically change it to make it liveable...? That he said “You know, life is always right; it is the architect who is wrong.” when people made radical changes? I guess that's more laudable than trying to fight the change, but also a very low bar.

noneeeed 5y ago
It's a very light article with a title that over-promises. The fact that Pessac was easily modified appears to be accidental, and the article finishes with a passing comment by LC that I wholeheartedly agree with, but doesn't really amount to much. Feels like something dashed off to somehow prove a point? I very much like Tim Harford's reporting when it comes to statistics and numbers in life and the news (his More Or Less radio programme/podcast is great) and his older stuff on economics, but his more recent obsession with "cautionary tales" (the title of his other podcast) frequently seems to involve stories that are superficially interesting but frequently fail to convince me that they have a strong point.
- 4gotunameagain 5y ago
  > The fact that Pessac was easily modified appears to be accidental Why is it accidental in your opinion? Corbusier's Five Points of Architecture[1] specifically dictate free design of f.x. the ground plan, in order to facilitate further modification. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Le_Corbusier%27s_Five_Points_of_Architecture https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Le_Corbusier%27s_Five_Points_o...

Spooky23 5y ago

I wouldn’t attribute this to the triumph of modern architecture. More a really obvious lesson that even when faced with hideous modern architecture, people with agency will make do. I spent several years working in a monumental modernist building. The place succeeded in its primary design goals: glorifying the architect and patron. Some of the exteriors & public spaces were not hideous. But the buildings as a place to work were awful and not fit to purpose.

alvah 5y ago

Theodore Dalrymple's article on Le Corbusier sums up the hubris of modern architects & modern architecture: https://www.city-journal.org/html/architect-totalitarian-13246.html https://www.city-journal.org/html/architect-totalitarian-132...

nemo44x 5y ago
It’s not only hubris but also dehumanizing. It’s just so detached from how people want to live and in many cases amplified social problems and dysfunction.

xtiansimon 5y ago

Architecture article without photos? Meh.

beaconstudios 5y ago

There's a fundamental conflict of interest between workers and managers, and given that managers have all the power, they usually win. Workers want control in the form of autonomy, managers want control in the form of bureaucracy. A good manager, in my mind, devolves as much control as they can down to the workers while maintaining enough bureaucratic control to satisfy those above them. Of course, that only applies to the traditional hierarchical organisation - there are much more worker-friendly organisational structures organised around autonomy for the individual and democracy for the collective, like the VSM [1] and cooperatives [2]. Of course, we don't see them very often because people usually found companies to control for themselves. 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viable_system_model https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viable_system_model 2: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cooperative https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cooperative

DrBazza 5y ago

With the hindsight of history I find Le Corbusier vastly overrated. It just seems that in the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king, and that was certainly true in that era. I can appreciate that it was "hey, here's a new material, and new techniques, let's see what we can do", but it all went a bit to far with Brutalism. To be honest, we're back at that point again over the last couple of decades with office buildings that are largely glass exteriors where the current glut of architects are putting "frilly bits" on the buildings to make them a bit less bland, but at the same time making them look very much "of the moment". As for current homes, in the UK, at least, the architecture has never been blander. Boring boxes with 2 car spaces and a bit of grass out the back. In terms of the article, I don't see how modern homes can be given much extra character by the owners versus those designed by Corbusier mentioned in the article. If anything modern house architecture is at a worse, lower point than in previous years.

makeitdouble 5y ago
It could be the same trend as in fashion: a huge chunk of the population cares way less about social signaling and extra character, especially when it comes with more maintenance cost and no more functionality. This is an article that I find sums well the issues, even as the author is I think more aligned with your views and wished for more “Architecture” as Art. https://www.lifeofanarchitect.com/architecture-form-function-object/ https://www.lifeofanarchitect.com/architecture-form-function...
- DrBazza 5y ago
  Interesting article. You're right, I guess, I prefer architecture as (classical) art. My preferred architecture is largely anything Art-Deco or earlier, and most buildings (not necessarily houses) built in the late 80s-90s (oddly, specific, I know). The brutalist stuff in London (the South Bank, the Barbican, QEII centre, and so on), I'd pull down in an instant if I were in charge (which is probably a good reason for me not to be in charge of anything tbh).

probably_wrong 5y ago

> The Chiat-Day office redesign has become a notorious cautionary tale, warning what happens when style is put ahead of substance and hot-desking goes too far I had never heard about this "cautionary tale", so I dug around a bit and found this Wired article [1] plus some pictures of the tiny lockers for the "dog pictures, or whatever" in this other article [2]. I'm not sure I would take it as the final nail in the coffin for the open-office concept, seeing as some of the problems are no longer relevant (such as not enough mobile phones for everyone), but it's an interesting article nonetheless. [1] https://www.wired.com/1999/02/chiat-3/ https://www.wired.com/1999/02/chiat-3/ [2] https://workplaceinsight.net/a-just-in-time-lesson-about-office-design-that-removes/ https://workplaceinsight.net/a-just-in-time-lesson-about-off...

scrumper 5y ago
I found that too. It’s relevant today I think, as office-based companies start to think about hybrid futures.

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brohee 5y ago

I honestly expected a blank page, as a statement.

awiesenhofer 5y ago
Turn off JS and you're almost there! Ok, it will load the header and footer but apparently also displaying a text-only article without Javascript is asking too much (Reader mode works though)

motoboi 5y ago

I can’t recommend enough the book Cubed. It’s the history of the idea of the office. The evolution of the open plan is told in a fascinating way, but also the origin of the office worker. https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/18209337-cubed https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/18209337-cubed

cudgy 5y ago

“It should be easy for the office to provide a vastly superior working environment to the home, because it is designed and equipped with work in mind. “ It should be, but most companies offer uncomfortable furniture in an open, noisy room with drab carpet and the stench of burnt coffee and burnt popcorn. “Few people can afford the space for a well-designed, well-specified home office. Many are reduced to perching on a bed or coffee table. “ Maybe this is true in Silicon Valley, but the rest of the world could easily outfit a corner of a room to a better standard than most corporate offices.

yohannparis 5y ago
Not necessarily, I live in downtown Toronto, ON, and I rent an apartment for my needs. These needs did not include working from home! I could move and find a better place to allow me to work from home properly, but unless my employer pays for it, or give me a raise to compensate for it, I'll find a better paying job.
- nukemaster 5y ago
  I was working out of a studio apartment until this year and I honestly didn't feel like my WFH set up took up any real extra space: In the beginning I would use the breakfast bar and just put the laptop up after work. Later on I bought an Ikea arm chair and an end table that just stayed in a corner I didn't use. This is all in addition to the partitioned off area for my side projects that had it's own desk and chair.
bodge5000 5y ago
Whilst I was moving out and inbetween places, my "home office" was close to perched on a coffee table, and even that I'd take over a big open plan office (or possibly even my own private office).
ghosty141 5y ago
>but the rest of the world could easily outfit a corner of a room to a better standard than most corporate offices. I disagree. Most people don't make enough money to have on room they can dedicate to work. In germany where I live rent is so expensive that for a single person a 2 room apartment is the standard. You basically need 3 rooms which means you're paying significantly more rent unless you live in very rural areas.

Marazan 5y ago

Ah, I did not realise it was from Le Corbusier that the brutalist's obsession with flat roofs came from. There is no greater symbol of the absolute anti human idiocy of the movement than: A) constructing a flat roof building on the west coast of Scotland (200+ rain days a year) B) declare it a master piece https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/St_Peter%27s_Seminary,_Cardross https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/St_Peter%27s_Seminary,_Cardr...

beaconstudios 5y ago
There does seem to be a strong cultural thread in architecture that views the profession as more art than design. If I have to live and work in a building, I would much rather it was designed with me in mind than being the architect's expression of personal style. Edit: to be fair, this criticism could also be levelled at programmers and interface designers.
- arturinios 5y ago
  As someone who is just coming to the end of his architectural education and having worked in the industry for about 7 years now I can say this is largely a problem with academia in arhtecture which sees itself as some kind of pseudo-philosophical subject. Building regulations in most countries that I have worked in, for better or for worse, will not allow for architects to pull off what the modernists or the post modernists did anymore. (This is not to say that there aren't people out there still churning out poorly thought out buildings)
  - mikro2nd 5y ago
    "not allow for architects to pull off what the modernists or the post modernists did anymore" Thank all gods for that!
  - beaconstudios 5y ago
    That sounds like architects have been tempered by regulations moreso than having changed ambitions though, am I missing something? My understanding is that the modernist and postmodernist icons were not academics but practicing architects, sometimes both.

invalidusernam3 5y ago

Off topic, but the scrolling on that site is completely borked. Please, for the love of all that is good, don't mess with default scrolling behaviour on websites

ahaferburg 5y ago
Try reader mode if you can.

anonu 5y ago

An article on architecture with no pictures is a tough read.

eternalban 5y ago
Here are the pictures, before and after. http://arts-plastiques.ac-besancon.fr/2018/03/03/la-cite-fruges-de-le-corbusier-a-pessac-gironde/ http://arts-plastiques.ac-besancon.fr/2018/03/03/la-cite-fru... Having those pictures included in the article would make a mockery of its content and intended points (whatever it was). Would any sane person object to the renovation from that squalid state to a bright and inviting building? Were those "modifications" sound or was poor Corbu overestimating the occupants (his actual error as an architect).

bocytron 5y ago

> You know, life is always right; it is the architect who is wrong. I find this quote very interesting and resonates with UX engineering as well.

axiomsEnd 5y ago

The part about workers reacring really bad to forced rearragements reminds me of a time, when company removed flowers from my desk. Somehow this hurted more than bad micromanager and problematic coworkers. Edit : Everyone could have flowers and they were given by the company earlier. Just mine dissapeared.

chetanbhasin 5y ago

I almost thought this article was about the film "Office Space."

mschuster91 5y ago

> Few people can afford the space for a well-designed, well-specified home office. Many are reduced to perching on a bed or coffee table. For what it's worth I actually prefer a bed or sofa. Way more flexible and less painful if your back is shot.

aarghh 5y ago

Here is a more detailed look at the Pessac story: https://www.philipsteadman.com/blog/life-is-always-right-it-is-the-architect-who-is-wrong/ https://www.philipsteadman.com/blog/life-is-always-right-it-...

tristor 5y ago

Perhaps I am privileged by living in a very low cost of living area, but it was no great difficulty even in the beginning of my tech career to acquire a SFH w/ enough bedrooms that I could dedicate one to being an office. I even have a mini-split AC in my home office so I can keep the temperature at a comfortable working level (cooler) compared to the rest of the house in a cost-efficient manner. I have no idea who these people are that think a company office intended for hundreds or thousands of people will be a better work environment than private offices per person or dedicated home offices. In my home office, I put significant effort into comfort and ergonomics and it yielded a huge improvement in my quality of life and a cost-savings to my employer due to not needing regular physical therapy for back pain anymore, and solving RSI that would have otherwise required surgery. Yet, if I go into an office to work they buy the cheapest "task chair" they can get and put everyone at tiny minimum spec desks. Even when I had a private office earlier in my career when that was still a thing, the furniture was garbage. At home, I have a sit/stand desk with electric lift, ergonomic monitor and laptop arms, a nice herman miller ergo chair, an ergonomic mechanical keyboard, and a vertical mouse, with everything properly adjusted by an ergo consultant I hired. I've never seen a company that would be willing to provide a similar setup, even setting aside the privacy and quiet aspect of a dedicated office vs cube/open. At the end of the day, company office space is expensive and management cost optimizes by reducing worker quality of life. I'd much rather they allow permanent remote work and pass the cost savings on to workers by covering the cost of ergonomic equipment. I've now been permanently remote for almost a decade, and I will never go back to the office.

MivLives 5y ago

Been interesting coming back to the office. The office I work in is seven floors of open office. Everyone up to and including the CEO has the same desk. A standing desk (6 feet wide, white), dual monitor arms hosting some combination of 24 inch 1080p panels, or 27 1440p panels, file cabinet (white, top made to be sat on), and chair (black, mesh back, fabric bottom). Before the pandemic you found your way around by decorations provided by the workers. "Take a left at the Darth Vader cardboard cut out, if you see the tiki hut you've gone too far". Since coming back though all those decorations are gone. The place feels even more lifeless then before. Part of this because many people just aren't coming in, and partly because a lot of people have moved to WFH, or another company. I don't think those decorations are ever coming back, and it sure feels a lot worse.

anm89 5y ago

Of course, blame the people who had to live in the houses and modified them to be livable for not understanding the architect's vision, not the architect for designing houses people hated living in so much they felt they needed modification before living in them.

gweinberg 5y ago

TL:DR Le Corbusier was right when he said life is always right and the architect is always wrong.