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It's just infuriating how they insult us thinking most people will be taken in by it. As an aside the idea that a war which is taking 1,000s of lives on both s

by SLWW 4y ago

It's just infuriating how they insult us thinking most people will be taken in by it. As an aside the idea that a war which is taking 1,000s of lives on both sides is somehow "botched" just because it didn't go the way anyone thought. And people wonder why traditional media is dying.

SV_BubbleTime 4y ago
> It's just infuriating how they insult us thinking most people will be taken in by it. Not just thinking. They are being taken in. Front page of Reddit today was a completely nonsense story from three old women talking about Russian soldiers stole their toilet seats to take home because they could not imagine the magic of flush toilets. Absolute propaganda.
- bartekrutkowski 4y ago
  I don't dare to speak about what is or isn't propaganda these days, but when I was a teen I had a chance to witness Russian army leaving their base in Borne Sulinowo, Poland in early 90's. They did in fact took toilets with them, along with things like radiators and, in some places, even bathroom tiles.
  - SV_BubbleTime 4y ago
    Ok. Except the video had “anecdotes” that they literally could not imagine and have never seen the concept of a flush toilet. Understood it so little that they wouldn’t believe Ukrainians would defecate inside their houses and then stole the toilet seat alone to make the same system work in their homes. It was absolute propaganda. https://old.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/u192o3/babushkas_from_a_liberated_village_near_kyiv_tell/ https://old.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/u192o3/babushkas_f...
    - orwin 4y ago
      Man, it's just old people rambling and exagerating. Don't take it too seriously.
      - SV_BubbleTime 4y ago
        Ok, but look at the thousands of comments by young people taking it seriously. This is what propaganda is.
        orwin 4y ago
        It isn't hurting anyone. Yes, it's a bit disparaging of rural Russians who are not as cut off civilization as this video implies, but tbh, if you know anyone who took the transsibérien after 2000, you'll see that this story isn't as outrageous as it sounds sadly.
        SV_BubbleTime 4y ago
        > It isn't hurting anyone. Ok, interesting take. Cool how it only took you one post to completely reverse your position from “oh no one would believe that obvious garbage” to “oh it’s okay people believe that”. Good luck with all that goal post moving.
- inglor_cz 4y ago
  Ever been to rural Russia? The places that many Russian professional soldiers come from, because being in the army is a nice professional career compared to the crushing poverty around, even though the pay is actually low? Not a flushing toilet in sight. Russia has horrible levels of income inequality. A lot of the oil and gas money flows into the hands of the oligarchs and is thus concentrated either abroad, or in a few elite places like Sochi. Of course, the largest cities such as Sankt Peterburg and Moscow do reasonably well, too. But a random village in Siberia has unpaved roads, wooden shacks and outhouses. Fully comparable to poor parts of India or Africa. This is where many of the soldiers come from, and where time has stopped, because the Russian state does not give a f*ck about living standards of rural people. We had the same experience with them in 1945 and 1968 in former Czechoslovakia. And when they withdrew their forces in 1991, they bargained guns and grenades for stuff like toilets as well.
  - dagw 4y ago
    There is a huge difference between growing up in a village that doesn't have flush toilets and never having heard of the concept of a flush toilet and believing that bringing home the toilet seat will magically turn your toilet into flush toilet.
    - federoccco 4y ago
      It is not about "flush toilet", is about having a nice, expensive ceramic toilet, which could upgrade a typical "hole in the floor" style lavatory, common to many villages.
      - dagw 4y ago
        about having a nice, expensive ceramic toilet, which could upgrade a typical "hole in the floor" Obviously that is perfectly reasonable and no doubt happens. However the original comment was about "soldiers stole their toilet seats to take home because they could not imagine the magic of flush toilets." That I do not believe.
        4y ago
fabian2k 4y ago
Russia absolutely botched the war, they failed to capture Kyiv and withdrew their troops in that area. They are taking enormous losses in equipment and people.
KaiserPro 4y ago
Given that the war was meant to capture the capital on day three. By now putin would have expected most of the ruling class to have been disappeared by now and a puppet government almost fully formed, I think yes, its been a cockup. On paper Russia is supposed to have a massive, effective, overwhelmingly strong army/airforce capable of overrunning any small country on its border. In this instance, russia chose to invade a country at a time of its choosing, using tactics of its choosing, and has failed to take _all_ of its key objectives. to put it in perspective, russia has lost ~3x as many tanks as the UK has in _total_ for almost no progress. So yes, this war, so far, has been botched.
- thriftwy 4y ago
  You seem to expect that if plan A fails, that's that, there is no plan B, C, etc. But that's not how it works, and especially not how it works with Russia.
  - me_me_me 4y ago
    > You seem to expect that if plan A fails, that's that, there is no plan B, C, etc. There clearly isnt. By every fucking means there is no plan B. Unless you call shell a city to the ground a "plan". And now that is being abandoned. > But that's not how it works, and especially not how it works with Russia. Apparently plan A's also don't work with russia like they should. Anyone trying to scaremonger that big bad russia is still out to get ukraine is a fool or a troll. Two months ago nato was still planning for case when russian tanks will be in berlin by sunset, now we can see they can barley travel to a border town. They fell flat face unable to do anything for a whole month (not counting all the war crimes by command and by individual units/soldiers). Now their troops are tired and most munitions are spent, not to mention the loses. But yet russia has more plans? What are those retreat plans? As a matter of fact russia reunited and rekindled unity in ukraine and eu, pushed eu countries to diversify their fossil fuel imports and blew wind into green energy sails. Sweeden and Finland are now partners of nato. And with crashing economy china becomes a big daddy of russia. Is that plan B?
    - 4y ago

by SLWW 4y ago

SV_BubbleTime 4y ago

> It's just infuriating how they insult us thinking most people will be taken in by it. Not just thinking. They are being taken in. Front page of Reddit today was a completely nonsense story from three old women talking about Russian soldiers stole their toilet seats to take home because they could not imagine the magic of flush toilets. Absolute propaganda.

bartekrutkowski 4y ago
I don't dare to speak about what is or isn't propaganda these days, but when I was a teen I had a chance to witness Russian army leaving their base in Borne Sulinowo, Poland in early 90's. They did in fact took toilets with them, along with things like radiators and, in some places, even bathroom tiles.
- SV_BubbleTime 4y ago
  Ok. Except the video had “anecdotes” that they literally could not imagine and have never seen the concept of a flush toilet. Understood it so little that they wouldn’t believe Ukrainians would defecate inside their houses and then stole the toilet seat alone to make the same system work in their homes. It was absolute propaganda. https://old.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/u192o3/babushkas_from_a_liberated_village_near_kyiv_tell/ https://old.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/u192o3/babushkas_f...
  - orwin 4y ago
    Man, it's just old people rambling and exagerating. Don't take it too seriously.
    - SV_BubbleTime 4y ago
      Ok, but look at the thousands of comments by young people taking it seriously. This is what propaganda is.
      - orwin 4y ago
        It isn't hurting anyone. Yes, it's a bit disparaging of rural Russians who are not as cut off civilization as this video implies, but tbh, if you know anyone who took the transsibérien after 2000, you'll see that this story isn't as outrageous as it sounds sadly.
        SV_BubbleTime 4y ago
        > It isn't hurting anyone. Ok, interesting take. Cool how it only took you one post to completely reverse your position from “oh no one would believe that obvious garbage” to “oh it’s okay people believe that”. Good luck with all that goal post moving.
inglor_cz 4y ago
Ever been to rural Russia? The places that many Russian professional soldiers come from, because being in the army is a nice professional career compared to the crushing poverty around, even though the pay is actually low? Not a flushing toilet in sight. Russia has horrible levels of income inequality. A lot of the oil and gas money flows into the hands of the oligarchs and is thus concentrated either abroad, or in a few elite places like Sochi. Of course, the largest cities such as Sankt Peterburg and Moscow do reasonably well, too. But a random village in Siberia has unpaved roads, wooden shacks and outhouses. Fully comparable to poor parts of India or Africa. This is where many of the soldiers come from, and where time has stopped, because the Russian state does not give a f*ck about living standards of rural people. We had the same experience with them in 1945 and 1968 in former Czechoslovakia. And when they withdrew their forces in 1991, they bargained guns and grenades for stuff like toilets as well.
- dagw 4y ago
  There is a huge difference between growing up in a village that doesn't have flush toilets and never having heard of the concept of a flush toilet and believing that bringing home the toilet seat will magically turn your toilet into flush toilet.
  - federoccco 4y ago
    It is not about "flush toilet", is about having a nice, expensive ceramic toilet, which could upgrade a typical "hole in the floor" style lavatory, common to many villages.
    - dagw 4y ago
      about having a nice, expensive ceramic toilet, which could upgrade a typical "hole in the floor" Obviously that is perfectly reasonable and no doubt happens. However the original comment was about "soldiers stole their toilet seats to take home because they could not imagine the magic of flush toilets." That I do not believe.
      - 4y ago

fabian2k 4y ago

Russia absolutely botched the war, they failed to capture Kyiv and withdrew their troops in that area. They are taking enormous losses in equipment and people.

KaiserPro 4y ago

Given that the war was meant to capture the capital on day three. By now putin would have expected most of the ruling class to have been disappeared by now and a puppet government almost fully formed, I think yes, its been a cockup. On paper Russia is supposed to have a massive, effective, overwhelmingly strong army/airforce capable of overrunning any small country on its border. In this instance, russia chose to invade a country at a time of its choosing, using tactics of its choosing, and has failed to take _all_ of its key objectives. to put it in perspective, russia has lost ~3x as many tanks as the UK has in _total_ for almost no progress. So yes, this war, so far, has been botched.

thriftwy 4y ago
You seem to expect that if plan A fails, that's that, there is no plan B, C, etc. But that's not how it works, and especially not how it works with Russia.
- me_me_me 4y ago
  > You seem to expect that if plan A fails, that's that, there is no plan B, C, etc. There clearly isnt. By every fucking means there is no plan B. Unless you call shell a city to the ground a "plan". And now that is being abandoned. > But that's not how it works, and especially not how it works with Russia. Apparently plan A's also don't work with russia like they should. Anyone trying to scaremonger that big bad russia is still out to get ukraine is a fool or a troll. Two months ago nato was still planning for case when russian tanks will be in berlin by sunset, now we can see they can barley travel to a border town. They fell flat face unable to do anything for a whole month (not counting all the war crimes by command and by individual units/soldiers). Now their troops are tired and most munitions are spent, not to mention the loses. But yet russia has more plans? What are those retreat plans? As a matter of fact russia reunited and rekindled unity in ukraine and eu, pushed eu countries to diversify their fossil fuel imports and blew wind into green energy sails. Sweeden and Finland are now partners of nato. And with crashing economy china becomes a big daddy of russia. Is that plan B?
  - 4y ago