5 ms·

I think solving the "last mile" problem in the US is our greatest problem, especially in rural areas. Too many state and local governments have been paid off by

I think solving the "last mile" problem in the US is our greatest problem, especially in rural areas. Too many state and local governments have been paid off by lobbyists to pass laws to block any competition from offering cheaper and better options. Too many people are stuck with slow, expensive, and unreliable cable and/or DSL ISPs. Some have no choice whatsoever. Some others get to choose only from two equally awful options. We need legally available competition EVERYWHERE.

iamstupidsimple 4y ago
Unfortunately that problem space is so large (every new line of fibre has how many stakeholders?) that a single individual or organisation might not be able to have any impact here. Which I think is the root of this question.
- tbrownaw 4y ago
  If there's above-ground electricity, there should be rules about getting pole access. And from what I understand those poles, and anything underground, work by getting easements rather than negotiating separately with every individual property owner.
  - SuoDuanDao 4y ago
    Fibre op engineer (Canadain) here - there are rules, but those are a double edged sword; the proper paperwork to get on a pole is a large part of the total cost to attach. Ever see the mess of cables in a developing country? The laxer rules that lead to those tangles substantially reduces the cost of building out internet.
bick_nyers 4y ago
What I don't quite understand is how these rural areas got electricity. If it's so expensive to run something to a rural area, who ate the cost of providing grid access? Or is cable/fiber just significantly more expensive per mile compared to electricity?
- duped 4y ago
  The federal government ate the cost. FDR passed the Rural Electrification Act in 1935 as a part of the New Deal, which gave large loans to fund electrifying rural parts of America. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rural_Utilities_Service https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rural_Utilities_Service
- jsz0 4y ago
  As a society we had a much higher tolerance for risk when the electrical grid was being built. We were perfectly fine with the idea some people would die building it and some people would get electrocuted using it. The world we live in now has much lower tolerance for risk. You can't even screw a wall mount bracket in without carrying liability insurance.
  - na85 4y ago
    Society's risk tolerance varies with domain. Electrical power systems are well understood and thus we expect them to be as safe as practical. Contrast that to the reaction to Tesla's autopilot that will happily drive you into an embankment at fatal speeds.
    - BlueTemplar 4y ago
      Electric power systems are much more dangerous than communication networks.
      - na85 4y ago
        ... and?
  - JaimeThompson 4y ago
    A major reason for needing to have so much liability insurance in the United States is the insane cost of our medical care.
- nopenopenopeno 4y ago
  The New Deal electrified America.
snarfy 4y ago
It might be our greatest problem, but it's not a technical problem.
jrockway 4y ago
I think it's a problem even in urban areas. A friend of mine is working on something called Flume: https://www.flumeinternet.com/ https://www.flumeinternet.com/ Their funding model (at least right now) is basically to serve customers where the government will pay for it. Many of their customers are getting home broadband for the first time in their life. (They remark that it's fun when their friends come over and they can give them the wifi password.) This is all happening in New York City; some people are getting Internet access for the first time in their lives, in the largest city in the richest country in the world. I can only imagine how fucked rural America is.
dtaht 4y ago
The director of the NTIA $70B broadband expansion program is taking questions wednesday in a fireside chat. https://discuss.broadband.money/c/broadband-grant-events/alan-davidson-fireside-chat https://discuss.broadband.money/c/broadband-grant-events/ala...

iamstupidsimple 4y ago

Unfortunately that problem space is so large (every new line of fibre has how many stakeholders?) that a single individual or organisation might not be able to have any impact here. Which I think is the root of this question.

tbrownaw 4y ago
If there's above-ground electricity, there should be rules about getting pole access. And from what I understand those poles, and anything underground, work by getting easements rather than negotiating separately with every individual property owner.
- SuoDuanDao 4y ago
  Fibre op engineer (Canadain) here - there are rules, but those are a double edged sword; the proper paperwork to get on a pole is a large part of the total cost to attach. Ever see the mess of cables in a developing country? The laxer rules that lead to those tangles substantially reduces the cost of building out internet.

bick_nyers 4y ago

What I don't quite understand is how these rural areas got electricity. If it's so expensive to run something to a rural area, who ate the cost of providing grid access? Or is cable/fiber just significantly more expensive per mile compared to electricity?

duped 4y ago
The federal government ate the cost. FDR passed the Rural Electrification Act in 1935 as a part of the New Deal, which gave large loans to fund electrifying rural parts of America. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rural_Utilities_Service https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rural_Utilities_Service
jsz0 4y ago
As a society we had a much higher tolerance for risk when the electrical grid was being built. We were perfectly fine with the idea some people would die building it and some people would get electrocuted using it. The world we live in now has much lower tolerance for risk. You can't even screw a wall mount bracket in without carrying liability insurance.
- na85 4y ago
  Society's risk tolerance varies with domain. Electrical power systems are well understood and thus we expect them to be as safe as practical. Contrast that to the reaction to Tesla's autopilot that will happily drive you into an embankment at fatal speeds.
  - BlueTemplar 4y ago
    Electric power systems are much more dangerous than communication networks.
    - na85 4y ago
      ... and?
- JaimeThompson 4y ago
  A major reason for needing to have so much liability insurance in the United States is the insane cost of our medical care.
nopenopenopeno 4y ago
The New Deal electrified America.

snarfy 4y ago

It might be our greatest problem, but it's not a technical problem.

jrockway 4y ago

I think it's a problem even in urban areas. A friend of mine is working on something called Flume: https://www.flumeinternet.com/ https://www.flumeinternet.com/ Their funding model (at least right now) is basically to serve customers where the government will pay for it. Many of their customers are getting home broadband for the first time in their life. (They remark that it's fun when their friends come over and they can give them the wifi password.) This is all happening in New York City; some people are getting Internet access for the first time in their lives, in the largest city in the richest country in the world. I can only imagine how fucked rural America is.

dtaht 4y ago

The director of the NTIA $70B broadband expansion program is taking questions wednesday in a fireside chat. https://discuss.broadband.money/c/broadband-grant-events/alan-davidson-fireside-chat https://discuss.broadband.money/c/broadband-grant-events/ala...