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I don't really like the habit of profiling relatively inconsequential transgressions of people, especially if the people aren't that relevant today. I don't thi

I don't really like the habit of profiling relatively inconsequential transgressions of people, especially if the people aren't that relevant today. I don't think this guy necessarily deserved a New Yorker article about any lies he told in the past. Am I supposed to be mad at him? As a matter of fact I've already forgiven him after reading this. The lies made him more interesting.

vmurthy 5y ago
>Am I supposed to be mad at him? Families of the victims should be mad , yes. He preyed on their need for solace and made money out of it :-( I took away a lesson (which is closer to the ethos of HN) If something has gathered momentum (someone doing something unbelievable or something that other people are harping about), dig a bit deeper. Either you'll discover something nice or you can debunk the hype. Either way, you would have learned something.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- hungryforcodes 5y ago
  > which is closer to the ethos of HN HN has an ethos? I thought there were just a set of guidelines.
  - whatshisface 5y ago
    The HN ethos has one rule: Each level of comments shall disagree with the level before it, with the article counting as level 0. First-tier comments shall disagree with the article. Second-tier comments shall disagree with first-tier comments and agree with the article if necessary (but only when necessary). Third-tier comments shall disagree with second-tier comments and may or may not be related to the article, and so on.
    - fsckboy 5y ago
      that's very good, but there are some exceptions. If the article is about any health related topics, terminal illnesses, diet studies, etc., no matter how interesting, all comments shall be tangentially related personal anecdotes.
      - Uhhrrr 5y ago
        And any article along the lines of "I had a terrible work experience" is viewed as an open invitation to participate in Story Time.
        orzig 5y ago
        Which I actually love - best part of HN is the pub talk
        Uhhrrr 5y ago
        I click them more often than not. My favorite part of HN is that the comments are usually collectively better than the article.
    - reuben364 5y ago
      Now this comment can neither agree nor disagree. Barber shaving their own head and such. EDIT: now I realize not really since the above being false doesn't force me to agree.
      - wombatpm 5y ago
        All articles are true in some sense, false in some some sense, and meaningless in some sense. All comments are true and false in some sense, true and meaningless in some sense, false and meaningless in some sense, true in some sense, false in some some sense, and meaningless in some sense. It’s turtles all the way down.
    - aidenn0 5y ago
      I agree with you
throwyawayyyy 5y ago
That was my feeling. I got to the end of the article and thought -- was that it? Nothing is grubbier than the pieces about serial killers, and this isn't even that: it's a piece about someone who writes pieces about serial killers. Who is a bit of a fantasist, so what? Not even entirely a fantasist! He'd inflated the number of serial killers he's interviewed. The fewer the serial killers who are talked to, the fewer who have attention given to them, the better, frankly...
- refulgentis 5y ago
  Perhaps it being from a different culture makes it seem less important? But yes, it's bad to lie and make up things people say and sell those lies for money and to burnish your reputation.
- encryptluks2 5y ago
  It does make you question what type of person is fascinated with murder so much that they lie and fantasize about it.
  - boomboomsubban 5y ago
    The kind of person who wants to make more money. Crime stories sell really well, like half of the top podcasts right now are true crime based. Better to make up that you talked to a serial killer than convict someone through hearsay like so many of those podcasts do.
    - encryptluks2 5y ago
      I mean you sort of are describing a sociopath. Lots of murders are motivated by profit.
      - boomboomsubban 5y ago
        They aren't murdering anyone though, just writing stories. Almost everyone is motivated by profit, it's not some unique trait of sociopaths.
refulgentis 5y ago
He still tells the lies, to this day. I'm a bit puzzled why you perceived the article as describing someone's past lies. You're not supposed to be mad at him, you're supposed to be engrossed by a fascinating story with lots of depth. It's a biographical piece, not a referendum, or call to action.
- bluehorseray 5y ago
  I guess I was wondering if I should be mad because I didn't find it that fascinating of a story. I personally know multiple people who have told more fantastic lies than the ones this guy has told. Admittedly the way the story was framed I was almost expecting it to be about him killing his partner and becoming a serial killer expert to explore his guilt, so the lie that it never happened seemed tame in comparison.
  - watwut 5y ago
    I am kind of fascinated by this concept of "mandatory feelings" seemingly many people operate with. I don't know whether you should be mad or not. It does not make sense to me as a question ... either you are mad or not. Why should someone else dictate your emotional reaction.
    - alar44 5y ago
      Agreed, no idea why they keep asking how they should feel. Idk dude, you tell me!
      - bluehorseray 5y ago
        I mean I don't think it's that tricky of a concept. Every piece of writing, or art for that matter, is generally supposed to elicit some sort of feeling. The only one this piece made me want to feel was anger or indignation toward the serial killer expert, which I thought was pretty unfair and one-dimensional way of presenting the man. He was well respected in the crime community and by law enforcement, and because he made up a relatively harmless lie the New Yorker kind of eviscerated him in the last paragraph...all to drive home the point you shouldn't lie I guess? Life's more complicated than that.
refurb 5y ago
I have no doubt most media outlets have “so-so” quality stories that get run when nothing better is available. Maybe this was one of them?
DiggyJohnson 5y ago
We can hold people that make non-violent mistakes to account. As much as I bristle at the modern tendency for public shaming, this sort of premeditated lying is worth the piece (assuming the human interest is there, of course). You’re supposed to be mad at him.
makeitdouble 5y ago
> I don't think this guy necessarily deserved a New Yorker article I am not familiar with New Yorker, but looking at their front page they would present to their readers any article they think is well written. I see a movie staff interview and cow documentary review. This piece could pretty much fit I think, it looks to me like its primary purpose was to provide a long read to the readers, and not change the world in some dramatic way.

vmurthy 5y ago

>Am I supposed to be mad at him? Families of the victims should be mad , yes. He preyed on their need for solace and made money out of it :-( I took away a lesson (which is closer to the ethos of HN) If something has gathered momentum (someone doing something unbelievable or something that other people are harping about), dig a bit deeper. Either you'll discover something nice or you can debunk the hype. Either way, you would have learned something.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
hungryforcodes 5y ago
> which is closer to the ethos of HN HN has an ethos? I thought there were just a set of guidelines.
- whatshisface 5y ago
  The HN ethos has one rule: Each level of comments shall disagree with the level before it, with the article counting as level 0. First-tier comments shall disagree with the article. Second-tier comments shall disagree with first-tier comments and agree with the article if necessary (but only when necessary). Third-tier comments shall disagree with second-tier comments and may or may not be related to the article, and so on.
  - fsckboy 5y ago
    that's very good, but there are some exceptions. If the article is about any health related topics, terminal illnesses, diet studies, etc., no matter how interesting, all comments shall be tangentially related personal anecdotes.
    - Uhhrrr 5y ago
      And any article along the lines of "I had a terrible work experience" is viewed as an open invitation to participate in Story Time.
      - orzig 5y ago
        Which I actually love - best part of HN is the pub talk
        Uhhrrr 5y ago
        I click them more often than not. My favorite part of HN is that the comments are usually collectively better than the article.
  - reuben364 5y ago
    Now this comment can neither agree nor disagree. Barber shaving their own head and such. EDIT: now I realize not really since the above being false doesn't force me to agree.
    - wombatpm 5y ago
      All articles are true in some sense, false in some some sense, and meaningless in some sense. All comments are true and false in some sense, true and meaningless in some sense, false and meaningless in some sense, true in some sense, false in some some sense, and meaningless in some sense. It’s turtles all the way down.
  - aidenn0 5y ago
    I agree with you

throwyawayyyy 5y ago

That was my feeling. I got to the end of the article and thought -- was that it? Nothing is grubbier than the pieces about serial killers, and this isn't even that: it's a piece about someone who writes pieces about serial killers. Who is a bit of a fantasist, so what? Not even entirely a fantasist! He'd inflated the number of serial killers he's interviewed. The fewer the serial killers who are talked to, the fewer who have attention given to them, the better, frankly...

refulgentis 5y ago
Perhaps it being from a different culture makes it seem less important? But yes, it's bad to lie and make up things people say and sell those lies for money and to burnish your reputation.
encryptluks2 5y ago
It does make you question what type of person is fascinated with murder so much that they lie and fantasize about it.
- boomboomsubban 5y ago
  The kind of person who wants to make more money. Crime stories sell really well, like half of the top podcasts right now are true crime based. Better to make up that you talked to a serial killer than convict someone through hearsay like so many of those podcasts do.
  - encryptluks2 5y ago
    I mean you sort of are describing a sociopath. Lots of murders are motivated by profit.
    - boomboomsubban 5y ago
      They aren't murdering anyone though, just writing stories. Almost everyone is motivated by profit, it's not some unique trait of sociopaths.

refulgentis 5y ago

He still tells the lies, to this day. I'm a bit puzzled why you perceived the article as describing someone's past lies. You're not supposed to be mad at him, you're supposed to be engrossed by a fascinating story with lots of depth. It's a biographical piece, not a referendum, or call to action.

bluehorseray 5y ago
I guess I was wondering if I should be mad because I didn't find it that fascinating of a story. I personally know multiple people who have told more fantastic lies than the ones this guy has told. Admittedly the way the story was framed I was almost expecting it to be about him killing his partner and becoming a serial killer expert to explore his guilt, so the lie that it never happened seemed tame in comparison.
- watwut 5y ago
  I am kind of fascinated by this concept of "mandatory feelings" seemingly many people operate with. I don't know whether you should be mad or not. It does not make sense to me as a question ... either you are mad or not. Why should someone else dictate your emotional reaction.
  - alar44 5y ago
    Agreed, no idea why they keep asking how they should feel. Idk dude, you tell me!
    - bluehorseray 5y ago
      I mean I don't think it's that tricky of a concept. Every piece of writing, or art for that matter, is generally supposed to elicit some sort of feeling. The only one this piece made me want to feel was anger or indignation toward the serial killer expert, which I thought was pretty unfair and one-dimensional way of presenting the man. He was well respected in the crime community and by law enforcement, and because he made up a relatively harmless lie the New Yorker kind of eviscerated him in the last paragraph...all to drive home the point you shouldn't lie I guess? Life's more complicated than that.

refurb 5y ago

I have no doubt most media outlets have “so-so” quality stories that get run when nothing better is available. Maybe this was one of them?

DiggyJohnson 5y ago

We can hold people that make non-violent mistakes to account. As much as I bristle at the modern tendency for public shaming, this sort of premeditated lying is worth the piece (assuming the human interest is there, of course). You’re supposed to be mad at him.

makeitdouble 5y ago

> I don't think this guy necessarily deserved a New Yorker article I am not familiar with New Yorker, but looking at their front page they would present to their readers any article they think is well written. I see a movie staff interview and cow documentary review. This piece could pretty much fit I think, it looks to me like its primary purpose was to provide a long read to the readers, and not change the world in some dramatic way.