5 ms·

What I’d like to see is less government power, which means they stay out of my life, which means more freedom and less coercion, which means I can negotiate my

What I’d like to see is less government power, which means they stay out of my life, which means more freedom and less coercion, which means I can negotiate my life as I see fit like a grown up who is responsible for himself.

hinkley 5y ago
And you’ll create a power vacuum that business will gleefully dive into and give you less freedom, more coercion, and less ability to negotiate your life as you see fit. If you don’t remember why unions and OSHA exist then you are doomed to repeat it. Captains industry have no problems oiling their machines with human blood.
Broken_Hippo 5y ago
Exactly how much are you willing to be coerced to put food on the table? Because that's what we are really looking at here: Employers having power to coerce you into lifestyles and coerce you into things just so that you can put food on the table. Laws protecting employees (most of us!) are there because employers didn't simply treat people well, and people had little choice if they wanted to eat. And I'll point out that you might be a grown up, but you live in a society. Simply taking care of yourself isn't enough, not only because other people are obviously doing things that benefit you greatly. You know, like treat patients in emergency rooms and uphold wiring standards so your air conditioner doesn't burn your house down, and even if it does the fire department puts the fire out without even forcing you to sell it for cheap or show proof of fire insurance. You couldn't help where you were born, nor did you have a choice in your own primary education, nor whether or not your parents were rich or poor. You might be responsible for yourself now, but you don't fully take care of yourself, your starting level got chosen by others, and you are at the mercy of the actions of others, which can greatly affect your day to day life.
- s1artibartfast 5y ago
  The government is the single most coercive entity making me work more to put food on the table. I work approximately 30% of my time to pay for services I don't want provided and mostly don't use. If you want to talk about coercion, my employer gives me money for my services and I have the ability to walk away at any time. My government takes my money, and if I resist, they will put me in jail or kill me if I resist. I am indeed at the mercy of the actions of others, but I am by far most helpless against the government.
coconut08 5y ago
not everyone has the constitution to advocate aggressively for themselves. just because you can doesn't mean we can leave people who don't or won't to get exploited and taken advantage of. also not everyone is in a position to advocate for themselves even if they wanted to. there are a lot of people whose life would fall apart if they lost their job and the the business has all of the leverage. for those people, these regulations you hate are the only things preventing them from being sold into indentured survitude. your libertarian utopia is just like every other utopia. it's naive and nonsensical
standardUser 5y ago
"which means I can negotiate my life as I see fit" You seem to have absolutely no clue what life is like for most working people, combined with a frightening lack of historical context. Can you describe in precise detail how you expect an unskilled laborer to successfully negotiate an agreement in their favor when the employer can wield their vastly greater power without any government hindrance?
aaomidi 5y ago
You know you can do that right?
imtringued 5y ago
The government isn't the only source of coercion. In fact, it usually is the weakest one and it bows down to bigger sources of coercion like the wealthy, foreign/domestic investors and landowners. Since those are deemed untouchable they will keep doing whatever they want.

hinkley 5y ago

And you’ll create a power vacuum that business will gleefully dive into and give you less freedom, more coercion, and less ability to negotiate your life as you see fit. If you don’t remember why unions and OSHA exist then you are doomed to repeat it. Captains industry have no problems oiling their machines with human blood.

Broken_Hippo 5y ago

Exactly how much are you willing to be coerced to put food on the table? Because that's what we are really looking at here: Employers having power to coerce you into lifestyles and coerce you into things just so that you can put food on the table. Laws protecting employees (most of us!) are there because employers didn't simply treat people well, and people had little choice if they wanted to eat. And I'll point out that you might be a grown up, but you live in a society. Simply taking care of yourself isn't enough, not only because other people are obviously doing things that benefit you greatly. You know, like treat patients in emergency rooms and uphold wiring standards so your air conditioner doesn't burn your house down, and even if it does the fire department puts the fire out without even forcing you to sell it for cheap or show proof of fire insurance. You couldn't help where you were born, nor did you have a choice in your own primary education, nor whether or not your parents were rich or poor. You might be responsible for yourself now, but you don't fully take care of yourself, your starting level got chosen by others, and you are at the mercy of the actions of others, which can greatly affect your day to day life.

s1artibartfast 5y ago
The government is the single most coercive entity making me work more to put food on the table. I work approximately 30% of my time to pay for services I don't want provided and mostly don't use. If you want to talk about coercion, my employer gives me money for my services and I have the ability to walk away at any time. My government takes my money, and if I resist, they will put me in jail or kill me if I resist. I am indeed at the mercy of the actions of others, but I am by far most helpless against the government.

coconut08 5y ago

not everyone has the constitution to advocate aggressively for themselves. just because you can doesn't mean we can leave people who don't or won't to get exploited and taken advantage of. also not everyone is in a position to advocate for themselves even if they wanted to. there are a lot of people whose life would fall apart if they lost their job and the the business has all of the leverage. for those people, these regulations you hate are the only things preventing them from being sold into indentured survitude. your libertarian utopia is just like every other utopia. it's naive and nonsensical

standardUser 5y ago

"which means I can negotiate my life as I see fit" You seem to have absolutely no clue what life is like for most working people, combined with a frightening lack of historical context. Can you describe in precise detail how you expect an unskilled laborer to successfully negotiate an agreement in their favor when the employer can wield their vastly greater power without any government hindrance?

aaomidi 5y ago

You know you can do that right?

imtringued 5y ago

The government isn't the only source of coercion. In fact, it usually is the weakest one and it bows down to bigger sources of coercion like the wealthy, foreign/domestic investors and landowners. Since those are deemed untouchable they will keep doing whatever they want.