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I think they mean micromanagers. I thrived as a middle manager of a remote team that was always distributed across three time zones. I’m not a micromanager and

I think they mean micromanagers. I thrived as a middle manager of a remote team that was always distributed across three time zones. I’m not a micromanager and I built my team with that in mind, so my focus was hiring, onboarding, long term planning, and mentorship.

algo_trader 4y ago
Can you share tips about ensuring you get a good (enough) funnel of (remote) candidates and hires?
- codezero 4y ago
  I hire relatively entry level folks for advanced product technical support so my funnel is naturally large since they aren’t specialists and I can teach/train the stuff to anyone who is a technical hobbyist or enthusiast. This has been my best way to keep top of the funnel high, over the years I also got more and more comfortable hiring folks with less and less technical/startup background but mostly my advice isn’t helpful for roles that require a lot of specialization. At that point it’s good to have a solid network, a good reputation, and a successful company. That’s another thing that’s kept me from having to expand my funnel much - my company has been doing really well for eight years and is only becoming more well known and mostly we get a lot of inbound. Besides that, hire good recruiters, sourcers, and recruiting coordinators. They know their shit.
hinkley 4y ago
Maybe there’s a two dimensional chart here, but my best managers have been leaders, in which case they became mentors, or they’ve been service oriented, in which case I and my peers were up-managing them. The ones who are trying to herd cats come off as shrill, and nobody respects them. Fears them maybe, but no respect. Problem is that if you’re up-managing your boss, they aren’t up-managing their boss. I’m sure there’s a Law in there somewhere. The leader types tend to know what’s what and shield the team from bullshit so they can get busy making the boss look competent in every other area. You can talk your way out of a lot of stuff when people are happy with the rest of your results. Delay tactics if nothing else. Sorry we can’t work on bullshit #372 right now because we’re busy being awesome on feature #784. Come back in a month or two (then cross your fingers to see if they still remember or are focused on bullshit #381).
- maleldil 4y ago
  What do you mean by "service oriented" and "up-managing"?
  - throwaway93982 4y ago
    Service-oriented would be when they make themselves available as a service to "customers" (direct reports, other teams). Think of helpdesk/customer service, where there's docs on how to communicate/collaborate/find needed info, times to schedule meetings/office hours, etc. Focusing more on the experience and needs of the people who might need the manager for something. Up-managing is basically supporting your boss. Help them with their goals, find ways to unblock them, ask them how they're doing/let them vent, make them look good to others. Personally I disagree with the whole "making someone else look good" management philosophy (including "only complain up"). I think it's dishonest and counter-productive. Sure it reduces friction, but it doesn't help crappy things be less crappy. It does prevent people from having hard conversations which might change things for the better. We need to take the ego and resistance to change out of work/management.
    - hinkley 4y ago
      It doesn’t just have to be helping your boss. From your reports’ point of view, it’s a matter of spending less time telling us how to do our jobs and spending more helping the boss figure out how to do theirs. Because often the people doing the thing have a pretty good idea what’s possible and what’s not, and when the management wants unicorns they will be unhappy with everyone because all they are getting from them is ponies. Someone has to tell them that’s because unicorns don’t exist and they’re being not just unreasonable but unhinged.
khazhoux 4y ago
> I think they mean micromanagers I’ve never in 20+ years seen a micromanager in the wild. I’m not sure they really exist.
- acrooks 4y ago
  You're incredibly lucky if that's the case. I've had a mix of both. The times that I had I micromanager were the most soul-sucking experiences of my career. They're definitely out there.
- throwanem 4y ago
  They do; I went to a lot of effort a few years back, teaching one how not to be. We both learned a lot: I learned how to avoid a significant failure mode in my own career, and he learned he was happier in an IC role.
- ipaddr 4y ago
  From demanding all computer screens face them to micromanaging time that required logging every minute in 15 minute intervals. I've seen it. From email snooping to timestamp logging to phone call recording tracking micromanagers are alive and well .
  - jghn 4y ago
    When I've seen 15 min time logging it's always been when time is billable. Have you seen cases outside of this?
    - ipaddr 4y ago
      We were using it internally pretending we were billing each other. Total employees under 5 people. Monthly an accountant would email and say you are not billing enough hours. This was full time.. weird, horrible experience I can bring with me.
- rybosworld 4y ago
  They exist, and it seems silly to suggest that they don't with n=1

algo_trader 4y ago

Can you share tips about ensuring you get a good (enough) funnel of (remote) candidates and hires?

codezero 4y ago
I hire relatively entry level folks for advanced product technical support so my funnel is naturally large since they aren’t specialists and I can teach/train the stuff to anyone who is a technical hobbyist or enthusiast. This has been my best way to keep top of the funnel high, over the years I also got more and more comfortable hiring folks with less and less technical/startup background but mostly my advice isn’t helpful for roles that require a lot of specialization. At that point it’s good to have a solid network, a good reputation, and a successful company. That’s another thing that’s kept me from having to expand my funnel much - my company has been doing really well for eight years and is only becoming more well known and mostly we get a lot of inbound. Besides that, hire good recruiters, sourcers, and recruiting coordinators. They know their shit.

hinkley 4y ago

Maybe there’s a two dimensional chart here, but my best managers have been leaders, in which case they became mentors, or they’ve been service oriented, in which case I and my peers were up-managing them. The ones who are trying to herd cats come off as shrill, and nobody respects them. Fears them maybe, but no respect. Problem is that if you’re up-managing your boss, they aren’t up-managing their boss. I’m sure there’s a Law in there somewhere. The leader types tend to know what’s what and shield the team from bullshit so they can get busy making the boss look competent in every other area. You can talk your way out of a lot of stuff when people are happy with the rest of your results. Delay tactics if nothing else. Sorry we can’t work on bullshit #372 right now because we’re busy being awesome on feature #784. Come back in a month or two (then cross your fingers to see if they still remember or are focused on bullshit #381).

maleldil 4y ago
What do you mean by "service oriented" and "up-managing"?
- throwaway93982 4y ago
  Service-oriented would be when they make themselves available as a service to "customers" (direct reports, other teams). Think of helpdesk/customer service, where there's docs on how to communicate/collaborate/find needed info, times to schedule meetings/office hours, etc. Focusing more on the experience and needs of the people who might need the manager for something. Up-managing is basically supporting your boss. Help them with their goals, find ways to unblock them, ask them how they're doing/let them vent, make them look good to others. Personally I disagree with the whole "making someone else look good" management philosophy (including "only complain up"). I think it's dishonest and counter-productive. Sure it reduces friction, but it doesn't help crappy things be less crappy. It does prevent people from having hard conversations which might change things for the better. We need to take the ego and resistance to change out of work/management.
  - hinkley 4y ago
    It doesn’t just have to be helping your boss. From your reports’ point of view, it’s a matter of spending less time telling us how to do our jobs and spending more helping the boss figure out how to do theirs. Because often the people doing the thing have a pretty good idea what’s possible and what’s not, and when the management wants unicorns they will be unhappy with everyone because all they are getting from them is ponies. Someone has to tell them that’s because unicorns don’t exist and they’re being not just unreasonable but unhinged.

khazhoux 4y ago

> I think they mean micromanagers I’ve never in 20+ years seen a micromanager in the wild. I’m not sure they really exist.

acrooks 4y ago
You're incredibly lucky if that's the case. I've had a mix of both. The times that I had I micromanager were the most soul-sucking experiences of my career. They're definitely out there.
throwanem 4y ago
They do; I went to a lot of effort a few years back, teaching one how not to be. We both learned a lot: I learned how to avoid a significant failure mode in my own career, and he learned he was happier in an IC role.
ipaddr 4y ago
From demanding all computer screens face them to micromanaging time that required logging every minute in 15 minute intervals. I've seen it. From email snooping to timestamp logging to phone call recording tracking micromanagers are alive and well .
- jghn 4y ago
  When I've seen 15 min time logging it's always been when time is billable. Have you seen cases outside of this?
  - ipaddr 4y ago
    We were using it internally pretending we were billing each other. Total employees under 5 people. Monthly an accountant would email and say you are not billing enough hours. This was full time.. weird, horrible experience I can bring with me.
rybosworld 4y ago
They exist, and it seems silly to suggest that they don't with n=1