5 ms·

I’d call Santa Claus mythology rather than a lie. I was torn at first, but myths and stories are important to humans, and myths like Santa that are very old an

I’d call Santa Claus mythology rather than a lie. I was torn at first, but myths and stories are important to humans, and myths like Santa that are very old and pervasive may be playing an adaptive or instructive role. Also, my three year old loves Santa. It makes xmas more magical for her. I also have many fond memories from childhood of this myth. It’s hard for me to see the harm.

gruez 5y ago
> I’d call Santa Claus mythology rather than a lie. What's the difference between "mythology" and "lie" then?
- hluska 5y ago
  Parenting is weird?? :)
- alephnan 5y ago
  Non-truths/falsehoods and lies aren’t the same thing, unless you’re in an Intro Philosophy logic class.
  - gruez 5y ago
    >Non-truths/falsehoods and lies aren’t the same thing You're right, but the distinction in this case is far less clear than you make it out to be. The santa claus story has a social engineering component to it. Specifically, that an omniscient entity is monitoring your behavior and will give you gifts if you behave well. Given that, it's arguably a case of intentional deception (ie. lies). Absent christmas/santa claus being a cultural phenomena, telling your kids that they should behave well because there's an omniscient entity monitoring them, would be clearly a lie.
    - 7952 5y ago
      I think kids lack a clear distinction between imagination and the real world. They can believe something at one level and disbelieve at another without feeling the inconsistency. That can be a great skill to have that adults lose. But also makes the world more scary.
      - dTal 5y ago
        I think this is exactly backwards. Kids "believe in" Santa Claus in the same sense they believe in school and picnics - they listen for reindeer noises and hope to get a glimpse of him, and as far as they are concerned he exists in the same corporeal universe. It is only adults who possess the cognitive compartmentalization to "believe in" absurdities like the transubstantiation of wine into the blood of Christ, without it ever occurring to them to wonder what blood type it is, or whether it might be a useful source for transfusions.
- tschwimmer 5y ago
  I actually think there’s a good distinction. The narrative of a being who lives at the North Pole and employs (enslaves?) elves to make toys is mythology. The fact that your specific presents came from this guy is a lie.
- afarrell 5y ago
  A mythology is a story that expresses what the culture telling it wants to be true. It is an expression of values. For example, our culture loves re-telling the story of Lord of the Rings. Why? We want it to be true that even in a world with much hardship and fallibility, we humans will honor our alliances and face horrors for the sake of each other. If we believe this and if we see that other people around us believe this then you know what happens? People feel more willing to make sacrifices for the sake of standing by their allies than they otherwise would be. Concretely, US representatives are more willing to approve of spending money to station troops in Poland. They worry less that they'll be voted out for how they are spending taxpayer money. This highlights an interesting property of myths: The re-telling of them makes them more true. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Santa Claus does in fact exist as a role in society. My grandfather acted as him for many years. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ffUjwmXt9Go https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ffUjwmXt9Go
geoduck14 5y ago
I've shared that Santa was a real person who gave toys to poor people a long time ago. I'm mostly certain this is the truth. But it backfired on me last Christmas when one of my children asked me point blank if Santa was real. I was in a hurry and just said "Yes, but he is dead" and then walked off.
- amatecha 5y ago
  Wait, so... Santa's ghost left the presents under our tree?!! :O
eimrine 5y ago
> Also, my three year old loves Santa. It makes xmas more magical for her. You just proved POV from previous comment. Lie/myth of Santa beheads some more lie/myth about religion. And I do not think this is the last item in the train of lie.
- Aeolun 5y ago
  Lies and myths about religion also make people happy. It’s much easier to deal with the human condition if you are religious. I was certainly happier when I could still hold that faith.
  - eimrine 5y ago
    "For with much wisdom comes much sorrow; the more knowledge, the more grief" (Ecclesiastes 1:18) I understand your happiness, but for me it was absolutely disaster to reveal the god is an illusion, because many ideas I have thought in my head was (not became but was all the time) just a useless crap. That was literally my first discovery after I had got an access to Internets. "Thank you" my parents and society for pumping up my head with lies.
  - slothtrop 5y ago
    Some people are troubled for it because they hone in on sense of guilt, including for being unhappy. Or they think their unhappiness reflects a moral failure of some kind. Religion at the very least incentivizes reporting happiness. It can offer a sense of community as well which can otherwise be lacking. For my part, none of the dogma did anything for me, but I felt as though it provides an imperative to be content with one's lot, i.e. if you know what's good for you, accept what may come, because x or y is in accordance with God's will etc. In contrast to eastern (or pseudo-eastern) thought which would short-hand to "accept what may come because that is the path to happiness". I think some people need more comfort, and need to be told what to do and what will be in absolute terms, so religion can tickle the wires just right. Among the paths to peace of mind however, I also think it comes with the most potential consequences.
slothtrop 5y ago
I think this word, "magical", is more a projection than anything. I remember Xmas well, and while there was a bit of wonder surrounding Santa, it was mostly excitement at seeing extended family and, of course, presents. Xmas is just as exciting without Santa. Having said that I'm not going to be the parent who gets in shit bc his kid tells all the other kids he isn't real.
sumedh 5y ago
> but myths and stories are important to humans says who? You probably say that because you have seen religion playing a major role in people's lives.

gruez 5y ago

> I’d call Santa Claus mythology rather than a lie. What's the difference between "mythology" and "lie" then?

hluska 5y ago
Parenting is weird?? :)
alephnan 5y ago
Non-truths/falsehoods and lies aren’t the same thing, unless you’re in an Intro Philosophy logic class.
- gruez 5y ago
  >Non-truths/falsehoods and lies aren’t the same thing You're right, but the distinction in this case is far less clear than you make it out to be. The santa claus story has a social engineering component to it. Specifically, that an omniscient entity is monitoring your behavior and will give you gifts if you behave well. Given that, it's arguably a case of intentional deception (ie. lies). Absent christmas/santa claus being a cultural phenomena, telling your kids that they should behave well because there's an omniscient entity monitoring them, would be clearly a lie.
  - 7952 5y ago
    I think kids lack a clear distinction between imagination and the real world. They can believe something at one level and disbelieve at another without feeling the inconsistency. That can be a great skill to have that adults lose. But also makes the world more scary.
    - dTal 5y ago
      I think this is exactly backwards. Kids "believe in" Santa Claus in the same sense they believe in school and picnics - they listen for reindeer noises and hope to get a glimpse of him, and as far as they are concerned he exists in the same corporeal universe. It is only adults who possess the cognitive compartmentalization to "believe in" absurdities like the transubstantiation of wine into the blood of Christ, without it ever occurring to them to wonder what blood type it is, or whether it might be a useful source for transfusions.
tschwimmer 5y ago
I actually think there’s a good distinction. The narrative of a being who lives at the North Pole and employs (enslaves?) elves to make toys is mythology. The fact that your specific presents came from this guy is a lie.
afarrell 5y ago
A mythology is a story that expresses what the culture telling it wants to be true. It is an expression of values. For example, our culture loves re-telling the story of Lord of the Rings. Why? We want it to be true that even in a world with much hardship and fallibility, we humans will honor our alliances and face horrors for the sake of each other. If we believe this and if we see that other people around us believe this then you know what happens? People feel more willing to make sacrifices for the sake of standing by their allies than they otherwise would be. Concretely, US representatives are more willing to approve of spending money to station troops in Poland. They worry less that they'll be voted out for how they are spending taxpayer money. This highlights an interesting property of myths: The re-telling of them makes them more true. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Santa Claus does in fact exist as a role in society. My grandfather acted as him for many years. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ffUjwmXt9Go https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ffUjwmXt9Go

geoduck14 5y ago

I've shared that Santa was a real person who gave toys to poor people a long time ago. I'm mostly certain this is the truth. But it backfired on me last Christmas when one of my children asked me point blank if Santa was real. I was in a hurry and just said "Yes, but he is dead" and then walked off.

amatecha 5y ago
Wait, so... Santa's ghost left the presents under our tree?!! :O

eimrine 5y ago

> Also, my three year old loves Santa. It makes xmas more magical for her. You just proved POV from previous comment. Lie/myth of Santa beheads some more lie/myth about religion. And I do not think this is the last item in the train of lie.

Aeolun 5y ago
Lies and myths about religion also make people happy. It’s much easier to deal with the human condition if you are religious. I was certainly happier when I could still hold that faith.
- eimrine 5y ago
  "For with much wisdom comes much sorrow; the more knowledge, the more grief" (Ecclesiastes 1:18) I understand your happiness, but for me it was absolutely disaster to reveal the god is an illusion, because many ideas I have thought in my head was (not became but was all the time) just a useless crap. That was literally my first discovery after I had got an access to Internets. "Thank you" my parents and society for pumping up my head with lies.
- slothtrop 5y ago
  Some people are troubled for it because they hone in on sense of guilt, including for being unhappy. Or they think their unhappiness reflects a moral failure of some kind. Religion at the very least incentivizes reporting happiness. It can offer a sense of community as well which can otherwise be lacking. For my part, none of the dogma did anything for me, but I felt as though it provides an imperative to be content with one's lot, i.e. if you know what's good for you, accept what may come, because x or y is in accordance with God's will etc. In contrast to eastern (or pseudo-eastern) thought which would short-hand to "accept what may come because that is the path to happiness". I think some people need more comfort, and need to be told what to do and what will be in absolute terms, so religion can tickle the wires just right. Among the paths to peace of mind however, I also think it comes with the most potential consequences.

slothtrop 5y ago

I think this word, "magical", is more a projection than anything. I remember Xmas well, and while there was a bit of wonder surrounding Santa, it was mostly excitement at seeing extended family and, of course, presents. Xmas is just as exciting without Santa. Having said that I'm not going to be the parent who gets in shit bc his kid tells all the other kids he isn't real.

sumedh 5y ago

> but myths and stories are important to humans says who? You probably say that because you have seen religion playing a major role in people's lives.