4 ms·

What? How are you going to charge back against someone you didn't actually deal with financially? Your arguement is that Affirm should be able to clip the tick

What? How are you going to charge back against someone you didn't actually deal with financially? Your arguement is that Affirm should be able to clip the ticket and hold no responsibility for their client fufilling their duties? The charge back goes to who you paid for a service, if they need to pass it on, it's for them to do.

411111111111111 5y ago
I cannot say anything wrt this specific case but it definitely depends. Where I'm from you'd basically make 2 contracts: one purchase agreement and then another one for the money, which is basically just a credit you've gotta pay back. So here you'd have to contact the seller, as the other party merely gave you a credit with hopefully good terms
- syedkarim 5y ago
  Where are you from?
  - 0des 5y ago
    Asking that is a precursor to violence where some of us are from as it's an understood "what colors do you fly" type of question.
  - tionis 5y ago
    What OP describes sounds like the German systems with the abstraction system I think it's called.
jallen_dot_dev 5y ago
Author never disputed the transaction with Affirm, he just went straight to chargeback after getting nowhere with the merchant.
- aunty_helen 5y ago
  > and they were unresponsive to my requests for a shipping date There wasn’t an issue with Affirm not paying the money onward, why go to them. Once again, Affirm have agreed to give credit to this company, that relationship is theirs. If their client isn’t fulfilling their duties it’s Affirms problem too. Credit cards work like this, you pay your 2-4% fee and you’re guaranteed what you expected to receive. Hence why airlines changing peoples tickets out for credit during the pandemic was easily routed around via a cc charge back. I literally had the Turkish government change the law on my ticket to say the airline didn’t have to fly me but could swap my ticket for credit and I still made it away with my money in the end.
  - jallen_dot_dev 5y ago
    > If their client isn’t fulfilling their duties it’s Affirms problem too. Again, they didn't even know there was a problem because the author never brought it to their attention before the chargeback. The author borrowed money from Affirm and agreed to pay it back. He's in breach of his contract with Affirm, over a dispute with the merchant (a different party).
    - michaelmrose 5y ago
      They make their money by acting as an integrated intermediary. They didn't borrow money separately and then use that money to buy an item. They borrowed as an integrated step in the purchase interface. By acting as the intermediary they are the only party that received the posters money and ergo the only and appropriate party to claw the money back from. This is no different from buying a widget on amazon. Failing to receive the widget. Initiating a chargeback for the money. Regardless of whether amazon was actually responsible for providing the widget they received your money and ergo they are responsible for giving it back. Indeed its not really any different from a direct retail purchase where you buy a box and if you open the box and instead of nice new widget you find one that looks like it was mauled by a bear. Can you imagine going to the returns counter and being told despite paying us your money at our point of sale you need to fly to china and sue them if you want your money back. It's just not how the universe works. They most likely actually CAN'T take money and deliver nothing and make it someone else's problem if they both want to do business in the US and keep doing business with credit card issuers here.
treis 5y ago
OP used a card to pay a loan and the amount was correctly credited to their account. They're getting what they used the credit card to pay for. I think the loophole here is Affirm not being regulated like a CC. Then they'd be required to arbitrate the dispute between OP and the merchant.

411111111111111 5y ago

I cannot say anything wrt this specific case but it definitely depends. Where I'm from you'd basically make 2 contracts: one purchase agreement and then another one for the money, which is basically just a credit you've gotta pay back. So here you'd have to contact the seller, as the other party merely gave you a credit with hopefully good terms

syedkarim 5y ago
Where are you from?
- 0des 5y ago
  Asking that is a precursor to violence where some of us are from as it's an understood "what colors do you fly" type of question.
- tionis 5y ago
  What OP describes sounds like the German systems with the abstraction system I think it's called.

jallen_dot_dev 5y ago

Author never disputed the transaction with Affirm, he just went straight to chargeback after getting nowhere with the merchant.

aunty_helen 5y ago
> and they were unresponsive to my requests for a shipping date There wasn’t an issue with Affirm not paying the money onward, why go to them. Once again, Affirm have agreed to give credit to this company, that relationship is theirs. If their client isn’t fulfilling their duties it’s Affirms problem too. Credit cards work like this, you pay your 2-4% fee and you’re guaranteed what you expected to receive. Hence why airlines changing peoples tickets out for credit during the pandemic was easily routed around via a cc charge back. I literally had the Turkish government change the law on my ticket to say the airline didn’t have to fly me but could swap my ticket for credit and I still made it away with my money in the end.
- jallen_dot_dev 5y ago
  > If their client isn’t fulfilling their duties it’s Affirms problem too. Again, they didn't even know there was a problem because the author never brought it to their attention before the chargeback. The author borrowed money from Affirm and agreed to pay it back. He's in breach of his contract with Affirm, over a dispute with the merchant (a different party).
  - michaelmrose 5y ago
    They make their money by acting as an integrated intermediary. They didn't borrow money separately and then use that money to buy an item. They borrowed as an integrated step in the purchase interface. By acting as the intermediary they are the only party that received the posters money and ergo the only and appropriate party to claw the money back from. This is no different from buying a widget on amazon. Failing to receive the widget. Initiating a chargeback for the money. Regardless of whether amazon was actually responsible for providing the widget they received your money and ergo they are responsible for giving it back. Indeed its not really any different from a direct retail purchase where you buy a box and if you open the box and instead of nice new widget you find one that looks like it was mauled by a bear. Can you imagine going to the returns counter and being told despite paying us your money at our point of sale you need to fly to china and sue them if you want your money back. It's just not how the universe works. They most likely actually CAN'T take money and deliver nothing and make it someone else's problem if they both want to do business in the US and keep doing business with credit card issuers here.

treis 5y ago

OP used a card to pay a loan and the amount was correctly credited to their account. They're getting what they used the credit card to pay for. I think the loophole here is Affirm not being regulated like a CC. Then they'd be required to arbitrate the dispute between OP and the merchant.