6 ms·

ICQ launched a year before AIM. And the implication of choosing your own pronouns being a "fad" just feels like casual transphobia.

zomglings 5y ago
OP didn't say that choosing your own pronouns was a fad, but rather that displaying them on your profile was a fad. Personally, I'm not sure it's a fad, and I still see it plenty in the wild.
- novocantico 5y ago
  I still see people with simpsons avatars. Fads follow a steep bell curve.
hatefulmoron 5y ago
At the risk of sounding transphobic: non-trans/gender conforming people including their pronouns to signal legitimacy or support for trans people choosing their pronouns does feel like a fad. It reminds me of Blackout Tuesday, equally faddish but perhaps casually racist to suggest.
- rainonmoon 5y ago
  Normalising pronouns in bios is a way of protecting trans/NB people, not signalling legitimacy. It's like the easiest way anyone could possibly make lots of unwelcome-feeling people feel a bit more welcome in society.
  - hatefulmoron 5y ago
    This goal of "protecting trans/NB people" is accomplished by signalling your support for normalizing trans people indicating their pronouns. If you think that describing it as "signalling" sounds weak or trivial compared to "protecting", it's because it is.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - Dylan16807 5y ago
      The real protection factor is almost the opposite of sending a signal. It's about trying to drown out the "I am trans" signal that happens when pronouns are listed, by making it blend in with the background. That way someone who finds pronouns important can list them without becoming a big target because of it.
mushyhammer 5y ago
pyronik19 5y ago
No, sorry, not gonna fly with me "casual transphobia". The whole declaring your pronouns everywhere is a societal compliance test. It's a way for progressives to assert control over you and force you to adhere to whatever bs of the day they came up with. I spent my entire life without having pronouns next to my name because its obvious I am a man and I'm not to start declaring them now because a bunch of blue checkmark twitterazis say I have to.
- teg4n_ 5y ago
  Or it’s a way for people to indicate how they would like to be referred to as :\
  - simonw 5y ago
    I do it to help make it less uncomfortable for people who have a reason to declare their pronouns.
  - Auracle 5y ago
    If their pronouns aren’t what a person would naturally assume, great. For the rest of us it’s just pure virtue signaling.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - Fomite 5y ago
      For the rest of us, it's trying to make people feel like they're not singling themselves out for expressing their preferences. Me putting "He/Him" on my name tag is an extremely low cost/low effort thing.
      - datavirtue 5y ago
        Agreed. Super cheap.
      - ALittleLight 5y ago
anildash 5y ago
It’s not casual, it’s intentional vice-signaling. Also an attempt to make sure trans people feel unwelcome on HN and thereby appeal to the VC owners of this place.
- hluska 5y ago
  Which once again proves my old theory: Trans people are fucking badass. We’re damned lucky to have trans people.
  - FDSGSG 5y ago
    Are we really damned lucky to have people suffering from an often crippling mental illness? I'm all for the rights of trans people, but saying we're lucky to have trans people is not very different from saying we're lucky to have depressed or bipolar people. Perhaps we're also lucky to have quadriplegic people? (And yeah, obviously not all transgender people suffer from gender dysphoria)
    - hluska 5y ago
      Did you actually just compare being transgendered to suffering from a spinal cord injury?? I’m curious, why do you feel the need to hurt marginalized people? What do you gain?
      - FDSGSG 5y ago
        I'm calling out your celebration of suffering. I'm not hurting marginalised people. >Did you actually just compare being transgendered to suffering from a spinal cord injury?? Both gender dysphoria and spinal cord injuries tend to be severely debilitating. We're not lucky to have transgender people. Luck would be nobody suffering from gender dysphoria. The people who end up needing to correct their gender are absolutely not lucky. Why do you think their misfortune makes us lucky? I'm all for trans rights, consequently I'm also disgusted by you making light of the suffering implied by gender dysphoria.

zomglings 5y ago

OP didn't say that choosing your own pronouns was a fad, but rather that displaying them on your profile was a fad. Personally, I'm not sure it's a fad, and I still see it plenty in the wild.

novocantico 5y ago
I still see people with simpsons avatars. Fads follow a steep bell curve.

hatefulmoron 5y ago

At the risk of sounding transphobic: non-trans/gender conforming people including their pronouns to signal legitimacy or support for trans people choosing their pronouns does feel like a fad. It reminds me of Blackout Tuesday, equally faddish but perhaps casually racist to suggest.

rainonmoon 5y ago
Normalising pronouns in bios is a way of protecting trans/NB people, not signalling legitimacy. It's like the easiest way anyone could possibly make lots of unwelcome-feeling people feel a bit more welcome in society.
- hatefulmoron 5y ago
  This goal of "protecting trans/NB people" is accomplished by signalling your support for normalizing trans people indicating their pronouns. If you think that describing it as "signalling" sounds weak or trivial compared to "protecting", it's because it is.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - Dylan16807 5y ago
    The real protection factor is almost the opposite of sending a signal. It's about trying to drown out the "I am trans" signal that happens when pronouns are listed, by making it blend in with the background. That way someone who finds pronouns important can list them without becoming a big target because of it.

mushyhammer 5y ago

pyronik19 5y ago

No, sorry, not gonna fly with me "casual transphobia". The whole declaring your pronouns everywhere is a societal compliance test. It's a way for progressives to assert control over you and force you to adhere to whatever bs of the day they came up with. I spent my entire life without having pronouns next to my name because its obvious I am a man and I'm not to start declaring them now because a bunch of blue checkmark twitterazis say I have to.

teg4n_ 5y ago
Or it’s a way for people to indicate how they would like to be referred to as :\
- simonw 5y ago
  I do it to help make it less uncomfortable for people who have a reason to declare their pronouns.
- Auracle 5y ago
  If their pronouns aren’t what a person would naturally assume, great. For the rest of us it’s just pure virtue signaling.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - Fomite 5y ago
    For the rest of us, it's trying to make people feel like they're not singling themselves out for expressing their preferences. Me putting "He/Him" on my name tag is an extremely low cost/low effort thing.
    - datavirtue 5y ago
      Agreed. Super cheap.
    - ALittleLight 5y ago

anildash 5y ago

It’s not casual, it’s intentional vice-signaling. Also an attempt to make sure trans people feel unwelcome on HN and thereby appeal to the VC owners of this place.

hluska 5y ago
Which once again proves my old theory: Trans people are fucking badass. We’re damned lucky to have trans people.
- FDSGSG 5y ago
  Are we really damned lucky to have people suffering from an often crippling mental illness? I'm all for the rights of trans people, but saying we're lucky to have trans people is not very different from saying we're lucky to have depressed or bipolar people. Perhaps we're also lucky to have quadriplegic people? (And yeah, obviously not all transgender people suffer from gender dysphoria)
  - hluska 5y ago
    Did you actually just compare being transgendered to suffering from a spinal cord injury?? I’m curious, why do you feel the need to hurt marginalized people? What do you gain?
    - FDSGSG 5y ago
      I'm calling out your celebration of suffering. I'm not hurting marginalised people. >Did you actually just compare being transgendered to suffering from a spinal cord injury?? Both gender dysphoria and spinal cord injuries tend to be severely debilitating. We're not lucky to have transgender people. Luck would be nobody suffering from gender dysphoria. The people who end up needing to correct their gender are absolutely not lucky. Why do you think their misfortune makes us lucky? I'm all for trans rights, consequently I'm also disgusted by you making light of the suffering implied by gender dysphoria.