5 ms·

I do something like this as a first pass, but prune based on Values. I wouldn’t ever consider Amazon… but at $1MM… that’s kinda “change your values” type money.

UnpossibleJim 5y ago
At a certain point, I guess you'd have to say to yourself (or I'd have to say to myself, would be a better way to say it), "I'll whore myself out for X amount of time for X amount of money, then I can do whatever I want or work for whomever I want for X amount of time, after."
- chucksta 5y ago
  "Everyone has a price"
  - 0des 5y ago
    Im no streetwalkin floozy but 20 bucks is 20 bucks.
- skeeter2020 5y ago
  flexible ethics? not everybody.
  - tempestn 5y ago
    There are different degrees of flexibility. Perhaps some people are utterly inflexible, but I wouldn't much want to know them! As for this specific case, it's not like you're going to be breaking legs for the mob. A person might believe that Facebook or Amazon are a net negative for the world, but that doesn't mean that everything they do is bad or that one's individual contribution can't be good, or at least neutral.
  - UnpossibleJim 5y ago
    There are certain lines people won't cross, of course. Too much rigidity, on the other hand, is a disorder. If there's no traffic at 4 a.m. and I jaywalk, does that mean I have flexible ethics because the cost to benefit ratio is right for me... I guess. Would I murder a child for a billion dollars? No. That's over a line for me. I guess then, yes. My ethics are flexible, depending. I have also followed the two second rule, even though I find eating food off of the floor abhorrent =(
bally0241 5y ago
Out of curiosity, what turns you off about Amazon?
- chrismcb 5y ago
  Not the OP. But I interviewed once got a contract to hire position. The recruiter said after about six months I could apply for full time. If I got accepted then immediately the expectation is to put in 60 hours a week or more.
  - rvba 5y ago
    "We will squeeze you like a lemon with hope of getting a full time job and after 6 months whrn you get burned out, we will throw you away".
- cebert 5y ago
  Most of the feedback I’ve read about working at Amazon seems to be negative. It’s hard for me to reconcile though. As a user of AWS, I love many of their services and the possibilities AWS opens. Most of the negative feedback I’ve read centers around: PIPs, management, work/life balance, on-call, and frugality. If Amazon wants more folks to consider working there, I think they really need to get in front of this from a PR perspective and address these concerns.
  - redredrobot 5y ago
    Lol when I said that at an org-level all-hands everyone laughed, but the need for improved PR is very real. But it’s important to remember that there are a ton of extremely happy people at Amazon (or at least AWS, where I worked) they just aren’t as vocal online - management, scope and culture were incredible in my experience (it’s a huge company where managers have a lot of flexibility, YMMV). And some of the biggest day-to-day issues you hear about like crappy offices or excessive frugality were a thing of the past when I was there. And in terms of PIP, I only had one experience with it - having a mechanism for identifying and getting rid of the people who are a drain on everyone else was very nice.
Riseed 5y ago
I'm not sure there's "change your values" type money for everyone. Though for me, $1MM is enough to consider working for Amazon to attempt to change it from the inside. Perhaps we're saying the same things with different words.
- nostrademons 5y ago
  Amazon is not going to change from the inside for anyone making $1M. If you go in thinking it is, you're deluding yourself and will be much less effective than if you just accept that Amazon is what Amazon is and you're whoring yourself out to them for $1M/year. Your paygrade needs to be at least $100M/year to have a reasonable shot of changing the culture of a large company. Most likely, by the time you get up there you realize that companies are what they are for reasons, and if you try to change that you will end up changing yourself out of that $100M job rather than changing the world.
  - lhorie 5y ago
    I know a guy in there (who most likely isn't making anywhere near 100M), who transferred into the HR org to try to make a dent into the problem of employee turnover, PIP BS, etc. Last I heard, he was giving middle managers a hard time for perpetuating the sorts of bad behaviors that give Amazon its bad reputation as an employer. Maybe Amazon is a lost cause, maybe it isn't, but you won't know if you can fix it unless you try. </two-cents>
    - TideAd 5y ago
      PIP culture at Amazon comes from the very top. Bezos was a huge fan of it and so is the new CEO. There's no way your friend is going to be able to fight institutional power like that.
  - nostrebored 5y ago
    $100m/yr? You have some very interesting ideas about corporate ceo/SVP salaries

UnpossibleJim 5y ago

At a certain point, I guess you'd have to say to yourself (or I'd have to say to myself, would be a better way to say it), "I'll whore myself out for X amount of time for X amount of money, then I can do whatever I want or work for whomever I want for X amount of time, after."

chucksta 5y ago
"Everyone has a price"
- 0des 5y ago
  Im no streetwalkin floozy but 20 bucks is 20 bucks.
skeeter2020 5y ago
flexible ethics? not everybody.
- tempestn 5y ago
  There are different degrees of flexibility. Perhaps some people are utterly inflexible, but I wouldn't much want to know them! As for this specific case, it's not like you're going to be breaking legs for the mob. A person might believe that Facebook or Amazon are a net negative for the world, but that doesn't mean that everything they do is bad or that one's individual contribution can't be good, or at least neutral.
- UnpossibleJim 5y ago
  There are certain lines people won't cross, of course. Too much rigidity, on the other hand, is a disorder. If there's no traffic at 4 a.m. and I jaywalk, does that mean I have flexible ethics because the cost to benefit ratio is right for me... I guess. Would I murder a child for a billion dollars? No. That's over a line for me. I guess then, yes. My ethics are flexible, depending. I have also followed the two second rule, even though I find eating food off of the floor abhorrent =(

bally0241 5y ago

Out of curiosity, what turns you off about Amazon?

chrismcb 5y ago
Not the OP. But I interviewed once got a contract to hire position. The recruiter said after about six months I could apply for full time. If I got accepted then immediately the expectation is to put in 60 hours a week or more.
- rvba 5y ago
  "We will squeeze you like a lemon with hope of getting a full time job and after 6 months whrn you get burned out, we will throw you away".
cebert 5y ago
Most of the feedback I’ve read about working at Amazon seems to be negative. It’s hard for me to reconcile though. As a user of AWS, I love many of their services and the possibilities AWS opens. Most of the negative feedback I’ve read centers around: PIPs, management, work/life balance, on-call, and frugality. If Amazon wants more folks to consider working there, I think they really need to get in front of this from a PR perspective and address these concerns.
- redredrobot 5y ago
  Lol when I said that at an org-level all-hands everyone laughed, but the need for improved PR is very real. But it’s important to remember that there are a ton of extremely happy people at Amazon (or at least AWS, where I worked) they just aren’t as vocal online - management, scope and culture were incredible in my experience (it’s a huge company where managers have a lot of flexibility, YMMV). And some of the biggest day-to-day issues you hear about like crappy offices or excessive frugality were a thing of the past when I was there. And in terms of PIP, I only had one experience with it - having a mechanism for identifying and getting rid of the people who are a drain on everyone else was very nice.

Riseed 5y ago

I'm not sure there's "change your values" type money for everyone. Though for me, $1MM is enough to consider working for Amazon to attempt to change it from the inside. Perhaps we're saying the same things with different words.

nostrademons 5y ago
Amazon is not going to change from the inside for anyone making $1M. If you go in thinking it is, you're deluding yourself and will be much less effective than if you just accept that Amazon is what Amazon is and you're whoring yourself out to them for $1M/year. Your paygrade needs to be at least $100M/year to have a reasonable shot of changing the culture of a large company. Most likely, by the time you get up there you realize that companies are what they are for reasons, and if you try to change that you will end up changing yourself out of that $100M job rather than changing the world.
- lhorie 5y ago
  I know a guy in there (who most likely isn't making anywhere near 100M), who transferred into the HR org to try to make a dent into the problem of employee turnover, PIP BS, etc. Last I heard, he was giving middle managers a hard time for perpetuating the sorts of bad behaviors that give Amazon its bad reputation as an employer. Maybe Amazon is a lost cause, maybe it isn't, but you won't know if you can fix it unless you try. </two-cents>
  - TideAd 5y ago
    PIP culture at Amazon comes from the very top. Bezos was a huge fan of it and so is the new CEO. There's no way your friend is going to be able to fight institutional power like that.
- nostrebored 5y ago
  $100m/yr? You have some very interesting ideas about corporate ceo/SVP salaries