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The random company in this case is Cloudflare and NextDNS. And using DoH you cut out your ISP from the equation (at least for your browser traffic). You can al

The random company in this case is Cloudflare and NextDNS. And using DoH you cut out your ISP from the equation (at least for your browser traffic). You can also setup a custom DoH provider (that can also be configured on the system level, not just the browser) so neither Cloudflare or your ISP gets your DNS queries.

mort96 5y ago
Cloudflare and NextDNS absolutely counts as "some random company" in this context. I have no reason to trust random American companies more than my local ISP. I don't trust the USA more than I trust my own country.
- hvis 5y ago
  > I have no reason to trust random American companies more than my local ISP. I don't trust the USA more than I trust my own country. You know you are quite fortunate to be able to say so. Firefox is a project with global impact. A lot of people around the world can benefit from DoH.
  - adalu 5y ago
    Even people in Germany who want to read the other side of the war story, like I did yesterday to read RT(.com) vs the Tagesschau propaganda. Since my ISP, O2, has removed rt.com entries and other russian propaganda outlets (I acknowledge the "west" also has propaganda outlets like Reuters etc) I was looking for ways to still read rt.com news. I looked into Firefox' preferences and searched for "DNS" and saw DNS over HTTP and I could pick Cloudflare, NextDNS (never heard of) or custom. I picked Cloudflare and read rt.com thus getting the other side of the whole bs propaganda mess. The German Grundgesetz (constitution) says "eine Zensur findet nicht statt" (censorship does not occur/there will be no censorship) yet, there is censorship. I was sceptical about DOH in general (why do we need this?) but now I see why this can be a good thing and great as well that Firefox supports it so easily.
    - dnzm 5y ago
      How is this different from just using different DNS settings on your OS?
      - dahfizz 5y ago
        Because your ISP can block a "raw" DNS request, regardless of what server you configure. Your ISP can even inspect your DNS request, and choose to give a fake response or block the request based on the domain you are requesting.
        drexlspivey 5y ago
        Your ISP can also block the IP via reverse DNS if they want too.. If you don’t trust your ISP only a vpn will save you
    - malnourish 5y ago
      Referring to Reuters as a propaganda outlet seems like a bold statement; what evidence led you to make that claim?
      - adalu 5y ago
        I could turn the question around, what evidence do you have they aren't? I'm not going to search for every single article. Or are you seriously suggesting that Reuters is 100% free of propaganda, especially in war times? The answer your question: "common sense".
        malnourish 5y ago
        That is an unsatisfying and fallacious response. I did not make that claim, nor did I call them a propaganda outlet. For whom are they propagandizing?
        adamrt 5y ago
        > I could turn the question around, what evidence do you have they aren't? I don't care about either side of this argument, but you can't logically turn the question around. The burden of proof is on you, who made the claim.
  - pbhjpbhj 5y ago
    Because USA wouldn't issue a national security letter to get dirt on foreigners? Seems like if Mozilla wanted to choose DoH as way to protect people from being spied on they wouldn't choose USA-based companies? Like "don't get caught by your own gov accessing restricted material get caught by USA gov-related organisations so they can sell you out to your own gov & benefit USA". If you're bothered about who's watching your web traffic then it seems highly unlikely you want to add USA to the list of who is watching you??
    - hvis 5y ago
      There aren't many companies with that capability and scale outside of US. And the States are watching you anyway: most of the Internet resides there. Even the websites that don't are likely using Cloudflare or etc to save on traffic.
- earth_walker 5y ago
  Cloudflare is only the default for users in the USA. I'm in Canada and the default provider is CIRA. I can also choose to switch to Cloudflare, NextDNS, or add my own. You can check out the Network Settings at the bottom of the General tab to see what your default is.
tallanvor 5y ago
And who on earth is NextDNS? Looking at their website, there's no mailing address, phone number, or other identifying information other than the names of the founders and their Twitter links. If that doesn't qualify as some random company, I'm not sure what does! And I simply don't trust Cloudflare.
- kemotep 5y ago
  And that’s fair, again this is all completely customizable and in fact you are better served configuring a system/network-wide DNS host that you run yourself or trust.
  - mort96 5y ago
    Most people are going to use the defaults. Giving all DNS requests for 99.9% of Firefox users to two random American companies is irresponsible.
    - kemotep 5y ago
      If it is irresponsible to utilize the services provided by companies under the jurisdiction of the United States, then using much of the internet and Firefox itself is irresponsible.
      - pbhjpbhj 5y ago
        So? That's not an argument for doing it again. 'Everyone else is taking a bung from the NSA to forward them data', for example, isn't a moral justification to do it yourself (made up example).
      - bookaway 5y ago
        The user made a conscious choice to trust one specific American company. They do not want other companies they did not personally "vet"-- with whatever weird and personal criteria they feel like -- added without their approval. This shouldn't be this hard to understand.

mort96 5y ago

Cloudflare and NextDNS absolutely counts as "some random company" in this context. I have no reason to trust random American companies more than my local ISP. I don't trust the USA more than I trust my own country.

hvis 5y ago
> I have no reason to trust random American companies more than my local ISP. I don't trust the USA more than I trust my own country. You know you are quite fortunate to be able to say so. Firefox is a project with global impact. A lot of people around the world can benefit from DoH.
- adalu 5y ago
  Even people in Germany who want to read the other side of the war story, like I did yesterday to read RT(.com) vs the Tagesschau propaganda. Since my ISP, O2, has removed rt.com entries and other russian propaganda outlets (I acknowledge the "west" also has propaganda outlets like Reuters etc) I was looking for ways to still read rt.com news. I looked into Firefox' preferences and searched for "DNS" and saw DNS over HTTP and I could pick Cloudflare, NextDNS (never heard of) or custom. I picked Cloudflare and read rt.com thus getting the other side of the whole bs propaganda mess. The German Grundgesetz (constitution) says "eine Zensur findet nicht statt" (censorship does not occur/there will be no censorship) yet, there is censorship. I was sceptical about DOH in general (why do we need this?) but now I see why this can be a good thing and great as well that Firefox supports it so easily.
  - dnzm 5y ago
    How is this different from just using different DNS settings on your OS?
    - dahfizz 5y ago
      Because your ISP can block a "raw" DNS request, regardless of what server you configure. Your ISP can even inspect your DNS request, and choose to give a fake response or block the request based on the domain you are requesting.
      - drexlspivey 5y ago
        Your ISP can also block the IP via reverse DNS if they want too.. If you don’t trust your ISP only a vpn will save you
  - malnourish 5y ago
    Referring to Reuters as a propaganda outlet seems like a bold statement; what evidence led you to make that claim?
    - adalu 5y ago
      I could turn the question around, what evidence do you have they aren't? I'm not going to search for every single article. Or are you seriously suggesting that Reuters is 100% free of propaganda, especially in war times? The answer your question: "common sense".
      - malnourish 5y ago
        That is an unsatisfying and fallacious response. I did not make that claim, nor did I call them a propaganda outlet. For whom are they propagandizing?
      - adamrt 5y ago
        > I could turn the question around, what evidence do you have they aren't? I don't care about either side of this argument, but you can't logically turn the question around. The burden of proof is on you, who made the claim.
- pbhjpbhj 5y ago
  Because USA wouldn't issue a national security letter to get dirt on foreigners? Seems like if Mozilla wanted to choose DoH as way to protect people from being spied on they wouldn't choose USA-based companies? Like "don't get caught by your own gov accessing restricted material get caught by USA gov-related organisations so they can sell you out to your own gov & benefit USA". If you're bothered about who's watching your web traffic then it seems highly unlikely you want to add USA to the list of who is watching you??
  - hvis 5y ago
    There aren't many companies with that capability and scale outside of US. And the States are watching you anyway: most of the Internet resides there. Even the websites that don't are likely using Cloudflare or etc to save on traffic.
earth_walker 5y ago
Cloudflare is only the default for users in the USA. I'm in Canada and the default provider is CIRA. I can also choose to switch to Cloudflare, NextDNS, or add my own. You can check out the Network Settings at the bottom of the General tab to see what your default is.

tallanvor 5y ago

And who on earth is NextDNS? Looking at their website, there's no mailing address, phone number, or other identifying information other than the names of the founders and their Twitter links. If that doesn't qualify as some random company, I'm not sure what does! And I simply don't trust Cloudflare.

kemotep 5y ago
And that’s fair, again this is all completely customizable and in fact you are better served configuring a system/network-wide DNS host that you run yourself or trust.
- mort96 5y ago
  Most people are going to use the defaults. Giving all DNS requests for 99.9% of Firefox users to two random American companies is irresponsible.
  - kemotep 5y ago
    If it is irresponsible to utilize the services provided by companies under the jurisdiction of the United States, then using much of the internet and Firefox itself is irresponsible.
    - pbhjpbhj 5y ago
      So? That's not an argument for doing it again. 'Everyone else is taking a bung from the NSA to forward them data', for example, isn't a moral justification to do it yourself (made up example).
    - bookaway 5y ago
      The user made a conscious choice to trust one specific American company. They do not want other companies they did not personally "vet"-- with whatever weird and personal criteria they feel like -- added without their approval. This shouldn't be this hard to understand.