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Person who isn’t an expert in advertising and doesn’t know how to run tests makes conclusions about advertising by not doing proper testing. Exciting stuff. Th

by soared 5y ago

Person who isn’t an expert in advertising and doesn’t know how to run tests makes conclusions about advertising by not doing proper testing. Exciting stuff. This is why you hire an electrician rather than doing your own electrical work. They actually know what they’re doing.

brutusborn 5y ago
I'm interested in how such testing works. What is wrong with his method of advertising-cold-turkey?
- soared 5y ago
  The author doesn’t provide and data or specific info on what they did, but a few general points: 1. Seasonality. It sounds like they’re comparing a few months on to a few months off, which likely is affected more by the time of year than anything else. Year over year data would be a better comparison. 2. Attribution windows. If I serve you an ad, then “turn off my advertising”, then you convert, depending on how you look at the data my ad either did drive the conversion or did not. Likely he’s just looking at google analytics with default settings, so he’s missing post-view data and assists. 3. It’s not that difficult to run an actual test, and most advertising platforms give you tools and documentation on how to do so. 4. The author doesn’t understand advertising from a technical perspective and most likely is not doing the analysis correctly. The big red flag is when talking about buying a display ad and it only driving 2 conversions. It sounds like a prospecting ad, which is top of funnel and is not supposed to drive post click conversions. I highly doubt they had an impression tracker on the ad and looked at post view data with different attribution models. Or even multichannel funnel reports in ga. Those would show the actual impact of the banner, not just 2 post click conversions. I don’t mean to bash the guy but this post is rehashed all the time here and I end up reposting the same stuff.
  - brutusborn 5y ago
    Thanks for the detailed reply. I didn't interpret the parent as bashing, I think that it's good to be critical of these kinds of posts especially when the analysis is shallow and lacks data.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
stingraycharles 5y ago
The point you’re trying to make is valid, but it sounds very condescending and not very constructive. Perhaps you could share how you would have set up the tests instead, and how the OP could improve his?
- b112 5y ago
  Knowing experts exist, and that test methods exist, does not the parent an expert make. Why would parent be able to share test methods?
- dotandgtfo 5y ago
  It's hard to reason from his post, but it seems like he's spending money on branded search terms. E.g. queries that include his website in its name. The effectiveness of branded search terms is absolutely worth discussing, and it's pretty easy to run a small scale test on if it works by comparing organic and paid traffic after the fact. But the issue is that this article doesn't differentiate between branded and non-branded search terms. Did he run campaigns on non-branded searches like "Registration checker UK" to get build awareness of his service for new customers doing broad searches? Did he compare his organic non-branded search engine presence with his results when running paid ads? Also, his service doesn't seem like a great match for the advertising channel either. It's hard to turn a profit when your service costs £8. The product - channel fit [0] doesn't seem right. So all in all, not such a great experiment. https://brianbalfour.com/essays/product-channel-fit-for-growth https://brianbalfour.com/essays/product-channel-fit-for-grow...
- rovr138 5y ago
  Not them, but this is the info we have; I was paying for in-search adverts across multiple search engines, I was commissioning custom made adverts to place in online used car market places. I was spending time optimising the 'bid' in automated advertising system, trying to get the best bang for buck My questions, * custom made for whom? * How did they select them? * When did they show up? * How were those terms selected? * What terms did they select and which performed better? * Did they track visits using different ones to see which had the best conversions? * Optimizing can be most impressions or for quality. Basically show to as many people as possible vs fewer but better conversion. We don't know here, but I see most people doing most impressions.
sbazerque 5y ago
This may be one of those famous last words, but friend, I do my own electrical work.
- bwb 5y ago
  My dad did as well... my job for many years as a child was to stand there with a broom in case it went bad. Be careful!!!
  - quesera 5y ago
    There's a difference between "doing your own electrical work" and "working on live electrical wires"! Although sometimes the latter happens. Rubber-soled shoes, one hand in back pocket at all times, non-conducting tools, and a helper with a wooden broom handle who knows mouth-to-mouth resuscitation ... these are all good recommendations. :)
    - delecti 5y ago
      Is "one hand in back pocket at all times" to avoid a circuit across your heart? And what is the wooden broom handle for?
      - quesera 5y ago
        Yes -- one hand does the work and is more likely to come into contact with energized wires or rails. If the other hand is supporting your lean against the conduit or enclosure (grounded), the path is through your heart. We're conditioned to use both hands for everything, so it's extremely easy to "forget" or "cheat just for this step" and use the other hand to balance, or hold, etc. Having your hand firmly in your back pocket is unfamiliar enough that we remember, and far enough that a quick instinctive response is interrupted. Wooden broom handle is a non-conducting lever that a helper can use to separate you from the energized equipment. The current can cause your hand muscles to spasm in a "gripped" position, so the broom handle might need to be applied with some force. This is a last-resort catastrophic situation response.
      - deleted 5y ago
marginalia_nu 5y ago
Seems like an expert in advertisement would have a vested interest in the outcome of the experiment.
- soared 5y ago
  You can use 3rd party tools to conduct tests so they are not affected by the outcome.
  - marginalia_nu 5y ago
    The tools are irrelevant when the person using them has an interest in demonstrating a particular outcome.
    - soared 5y ago
      The person running the test wants to spend their money effectively, not find out that their advertising is working. Running a test and finding something isn’t working is a positive result - it means you can move your money elsewhere and drive more sales.
      - marginalia_nu 5y ago
        Right, but the experiment in this case is to find out whether the job of the person running the test actually makes the difference. Basically, whether they are a scam artist or not.

by soared 5y ago

brutusborn 5y ago

I'm interested in how such testing works. What is wrong with his method of advertising-cold-turkey?

soared 5y ago
The author doesn’t provide and data or specific info on what they did, but a few general points: 1. Seasonality. It sounds like they’re comparing a few months on to a few months off, which likely is affected more by the time of year than anything else. Year over year data would be a better comparison. 2. Attribution windows. If I serve you an ad, then “turn off my advertising”, then you convert, depending on how you look at the data my ad either did drive the conversion or did not. Likely he’s just looking at google analytics with default settings, so he’s missing post-view data and assists. 3. It’s not that difficult to run an actual test, and most advertising platforms give you tools and documentation on how to do so. 4. The author doesn’t understand advertising from a technical perspective and most likely is not doing the analysis correctly. The big red flag is when talking about buying a display ad and it only driving 2 conversions. It sounds like a prospecting ad, which is top of funnel and is not supposed to drive post click conversions. I highly doubt they had an impression tracker on the ad and looked at post view data with different attribution models. Or even multichannel funnel reports in ga. Those would show the actual impact of the banner, not just 2 post click conversions. I don’t mean to bash the guy but this post is rehashed all the time here and I end up reposting the same stuff.
- brutusborn 5y ago
  Thanks for the detailed reply. I didn't interpret the parent as bashing, I think that it's good to be critical of these kinds of posts especially when the analysis is shallow and lacks data.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

stingraycharles 5y ago

The point you’re trying to make is valid, but it sounds very condescending and not very constructive. Perhaps you could share how you would have set up the tests instead, and how the OP could improve his?

b112 5y ago
Knowing experts exist, and that test methods exist, does not the parent an expert make. Why would parent be able to share test methods?
dotandgtfo 5y ago
It's hard to reason from his post, but it seems like he's spending money on branded search terms. E.g. queries that include his website in its name. The effectiveness of branded search terms is absolutely worth discussing, and it's pretty easy to run a small scale test on if it works by comparing organic and paid traffic after the fact. But the issue is that this article doesn't differentiate between branded and non-branded search terms. Did he run campaigns on non-branded searches like "Registration checker UK" to get build awareness of his service for new customers doing broad searches? Did he compare his organic non-branded search engine presence with his results when running paid ads? Also, his service doesn't seem like a great match for the advertising channel either. It's hard to turn a profit when your service costs £8. The product - channel fit [0] doesn't seem right. So all in all, not such a great experiment. https://brianbalfour.com/essays/product-channel-fit-for-growth https://brianbalfour.com/essays/product-channel-fit-for-grow...
rovr138 5y ago
Not them, but this is the info we have; I was paying for in-search adverts across multiple search engines, I was commissioning custom made adverts to place in online used car market places. I was spending time optimising the 'bid' in automated advertising system, trying to get the best bang for buck My questions, * custom made for whom? * How did they select them? * When did they show up? * How were those terms selected? * What terms did they select and which performed better? * Did they track visits using different ones to see which had the best conversions? * Optimizing can be most impressions or for quality. Basically show to as many people as possible vs fewer but better conversion. We don't know here, but I see most people doing most impressions.

sbazerque 5y ago

This may be one of those famous last words, but friend, I do my own electrical work.

bwb 5y ago
My dad did as well... my job for many years as a child was to stand there with a broom in case it went bad. Be careful!!!
- quesera 5y ago
  There's a difference between "doing your own electrical work" and "working on live electrical wires"! Although sometimes the latter happens. Rubber-soled shoes, one hand in back pocket at all times, non-conducting tools, and a helper with a wooden broom handle who knows mouth-to-mouth resuscitation ... these are all good recommendations. :)
  - delecti 5y ago
    Is "one hand in back pocket at all times" to avoid a circuit across your heart? And what is the wooden broom handle for?
    - quesera 5y ago
      Yes -- one hand does the work and is more likely to come into contact with energized wires or rails. If the other hand is supporting your lean against the conduit or enclosure (grounded), the path is through your heart. We're conditioned to use both hands for everything, so it's extremely easy to "forget" or "cheat just for this step" and use the other hand to balance, or hold, etc. Having your hand firmly in your back pocket is unfamiliar enough that we remember, and far enough that a quick instinctive response is interrupted. Wooden broom handle is a non-conducting lever that a helper can use to separate you from the energized equipment. The current can cause your hand muscles to spasm in a "gripped" position, so the broom handle might need to be applied with some force. This is a last-resort catastrophic situation response.
    - deleted 5y ago

marginalia_nu 5y ago

Seems like an expert in advertisement would have a vested interest in the outcome of the experiment.

soared 5y ago
You can use 3rd party tools to conduct tests so they are not affected by the outcome.
- marginalia_nu 5y ago
  The tools are irrelevant when the person using them has an interest in demonstrating a particular outcome.
  - soared 5y ago
    The person running the test wants to spend their money effectively, not find out that their advertising is working. Running a test and finding something isn’t working is a positive result - it means you can move your money elsewhere and drive more sales.
    - marginalia_nu 5y ago
      Right, but the experiment in this case is to find out whether the job of the person running the test actually makes the difference. Basically, whether they are a scam artist or not.