5 ms·

> Adding right-click context menus is a natural extension to Emacs’s already-extensive support for the mouse (even if a lot of people don’t use it.) If emacs c

by klik99 5y ago

> Adding right-click context menus is a natural extension to Emacs’s already-extensive support for the mouse (even if a lot of people don’t use it.) If emacs could support plan9 acme-style chords with custom commands then I'd probably use the mouse a lot more in it - acme convinced me that mousing around can be just as fast as being on the keyboard if the UX is well designed.

chrisfinazzo 5y ago
Is mouse-mouse enabled by default? Can the insertion point be moved by clicking in a particular location? As of recent versions of macOS, emacs isn't included by default. Last I tried, in terminal-mode emacs, the answer to the above questions seems to be no - with no reasonable explanation why this is the case. I'm more than willing to do everything else from the keyboard, but these are basic oversights that have yet to be corrected. EDIT: Is mouse-tracking actually the feature that enables this behavior?
- jaster 5y ago
  emacs "gui" perfectly supports the mouse out of the box. For use in a terminal (after using both for some time, I find the gui version better tbh), see https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/emacs/Text_002dOnly-Mouse.html https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/emacs/Te...
  - ghosty141 5y ago
    I personally think GUI mode is simply better. There is no real advantage to running emacs in a terminal imo.
    - spudlyo 5y ago
      Hard disagree. Sometimes the terminal is the most efficient way to run Emacs on a machine in a remote data center that has a mountain of CPUs, GPUs, memory, and disk. TRAMP can be slow and inefficient. A LSP server process on a huge monorepo can chew up a large amount of memory and CPU on startup. Running all of this stuff locally on the actual hardware your code needs to run on is great.
      - gpderetta 5y ago
        TRAMP is great, but to me it never feels the same as running locally. OTOH ssh -X (i.e. X forwarding) works for me for exactly this specific case (large and powerful remote dev box). Incidentally my current setup is that I'm WFH and RDP'ing into my windows desktop, where I run VNC to our xvnc server where I ssh -X to the dev box where I run GUI emacs. It is surprisingly usable (I can also skip the RDP and run VNC directly if needed).
      - ghosty141 5y ago
        > to run Emacs on a machine in a remote data center that has a mountain of CPUs, GPUs, memory, and disk But then why not run the daemon on that server and the GUI locally?
        spudlyo 5y ago
        Have you actually tried that? I know the server _can_ expose a TCP socket but it's not clear to me if it's intended to work across machines.
- marcosdumay 5y ago
  On Debian with the distro package, I never even thought about mouse integration. (On the Xorg interface. So much basic stuff - not emacs stuff, but really basic stuff - has been moving into DEs that I don't think the bare console is usable anymore.) The insertion point is moved by clicking and by using the scroll wheel (now that I've thought about it, maybe I should change that second one), clicking and dragging and double click change the selection. I normally don't use the mouse, but for moving text between windows it's nice.
  - a_e_k 5y ago
    M-x xterm-mouse-mode gives an experience in the console that's pretty darn faithful to the full GUI when it comes to mouse interaction. Clicking, selection, and scroll wheel all work pretty much as expected. Even menus and pop-menus work; the new TTY menu in 28.1 is pretty slick!
    - chrisfinazzo 5y ago
      Confession: I'm a BBEdit user most of the time, so take my questions here with a grain of salt. Although I don't need it often, I still felt the impulse to take a side w.r.t emacs and vi. I'll see if I can dig out my old init.el from backups and try to get it up and running with 28.1. I actually hadn't heard about the scroll wheel stuff before, so that might be one way to solve this for me.
    - chrisfinazzo 5y ago
      Is there a setting in Customize to control whether to use init.el or .emacs for configuration? Trying to set symlinks from $HOME to another directory and it's fighting me...
      - a_e_k 5y ago
        I believe the code that controls that is all in startup.el (or startup.el.gz) in the Emacs distribution. You can find the documentation here: https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/emacs/Find-Init.html https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/emacs/Fi... I do know that ~/.emacs takes precedence over ~/.emacs.d/init.el. I've taken advantage of that in the past to keep all the public configuration that I share between machines in ~/.emacs.d/init.el, and then on my work machine I had a ~/.emacs that wraps a (load "~/.emacs.d/init") with some company-specific configuration.
antics9 5y ago
Acme was my daily driver for a couple of years (mainly writing). Went back to Emacs because of org-mode; it's just _that_ powerful. I mostly miss chording and Acmes way of finding and opening files. It was intuitive and nothing felt hidden; like the commands and dired feels in emacs. But I guess Acmes functionality could be added to emacs by elisp, no?
- klik99 5y ago
  Yeah, I never really looked at mouse binding, but does look quite simple. This implements acme chording for copy/paste and the approach looks straightforward: https://github.com/akrito/acme-mouse/blob/master/acme-mouse.el https://github.com/akrito/acme-mouse/blob/master/acme-mouse.... And this package looks like a cool way to recreate the context sensitive text actions: https://github.com/cmpitg/wand https://github.com/cmpitg/wand Combining the approach from the first and the wand package could potentially surpass the acme experience by making it easier to customize and extend. My friend joked about how I'm religious about the keyboard, but really it's about the right tool for the job, and if I had an acme-like mouse experience with emacs I'd def be mousing around more often. Funny that compared to normal people I'm a keyboard fanatic but compared to majority of emacs users I'm on the mouse way more often :)
- klik99 5y ago
  Did you use https://code.google.com/archive/p/acme-sac/ https://code.google.com/archive/p/acme-sac/ or acme in p9 or inferno? I only had limited experience with acme in p9 during some experiments with distributed audio, but once it clicked with me it made a huge impact on me - similar to when I first grokked emacs.

by klik99 5y ago

chrisfinazzo 5y ago

Is mouse-mouse enabled by default? Can the insertion point be moved by clicking in a particular location? As of recent versions of macOS, emacs isn't included by default. Last I tried, in terminal-mode emacs, the answer to the above questions seems to be no - with no reasonable explanation why this is the case. I'm more than willing to do everything else from the keyboard, but these are basic oversights that have yet to be corrected. EDIT: Is mouse-tracking actually the feature that enables this behavior?

jaster 5y ago
emacs "gui" perfectly supports the mouse out of the box. For use in a terminal (after using both for some time, I find the gui version better tbh), see https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/emacs/Text_002dOnly-Mouse.html https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/emacs/Te...
- ghosty141 5y ago
  I personally think GUI mode is simply better. There is no real advantage to running emacs in a terminal imo.
  - spudlyo 5y ago
    Hard disagree. Sometimes the terminal is the most efficient way to run Emacs on a machine in a remote data center that has a mountain of CPUs, GPUs, memory, and disk. TRAMP can be slow and inefficient. A LSP server process on a huge monorepo can chew up a large amount of memory and CPU on startup. Running all of this stuff locally on the actual hardware your code needs to run on is great.
    - gpderetta 5y ago
      TRAMP is great, but to me it never feels the same as running locally. OTOH ssh -X (i.e. X forwarding) works for me for exactly this specific case (large and powerful remote dev box). Incidentally my current setup is that I'm WFH and RDP'ing into my windows desktop, where I run VNC to our xvnc server where I ssh -X to the dev box where I run GUI emacs. It is surprisingly usable (I can also skip the RDP and run VNC directly if needed).
    - ghosty141 5y ago
      > to run Emacs on a machine in a remote data center that has a mountain of CPUs, GPUs, memory, and disk But then why not run the daemon on that server and the GUI locally?
      - spudlyo 5y ago
        Have you actually tried that? I know the server _can_ expose a TCP socket but it's not clear to me if it's intended to work across machines.
marcosdumay 5y ago
On Debian with the distro package, I never even thought about mouse integration. (On the Xorg interface. So much basic stuff - not emacs stuff, but really basic stuff - has been moving into DEs that I don't think the bare console is usable anymore.) The insertion point is moved by clicking and by using the scroll wheel (now that I've thought about it, maybe I should change that second one), clicking and dragging and double click change the selection. I normally don't use the mouse, but for moving text between windows it's nice.
- a_e_k 5y ago
  M-x xterm-mouse-mode gives an experience in the console that's pretty darn faithful to the full GUI when it comes to mouse interaction. Clicking, selection, and scroll wheel all work pretty much as expected. Even menus and pop-menus work; the new TTY menu in 28.1 is pretty slick!
  - chrisfinazzo 5y ago
    Confession: I'm a BBEdit user most of the time, so take my questions here with a grain of salt. Although I don't need it often, I still felt the impulse to take a side w.r.t emacs and vi. I'll see if I can dig out my old init.el from backups and try to get it up and running with 28.1. I actually hadn't heard about the scroll wheel stuff before, so that might be one way to solve this for me.
  - chrisfinazzo 5y ago
    Is there a setting in Customize to control whether to use init.el or .emacs for configuration? Trying to set symlinks from $HOME to another directory and it's fighting me...
    - a_e_k 5y ago
      I believe the code that controls that is all in startup.el (or startup.el.gz) in the Emacs distribution. You can find the documentation here: https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/emacs/Find-Init.html https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/emacs/Fi... I do know that ~/.emacs takes precedence over ~/.emacs.d/init.el. I've taken advantage of that in the past to keep all the public configuration that I share between machines in ~/.emacs.d/init.el, and then on my work machine I had a ~/.emacs that wraps a (load "~/.emacs.d/init") with some company-specific configuration.

antics9 5y ago

Acme was my daily driver for a couple of years (mainly writing). Went back to Emacs because of org-mode; it's just _that_ powerful. I mostly miss chording and Acmes way of finding and opening files. It was intuitive and nothing felt hidden; like the commands and dired feels in emacs. But I guess Acmes functionality could be added to emacs by elisp, no?

klik99 5y ago
Yeah, I never really looked at mouse binding, but does look quite simple. This implements acme chording for copy/paste and the approach looks straightforward: https://github.com/akrito/acme-mouse/blob/master/acme-mouse.el https://github.com/akrito/acme-mouse/blob/master/acme-mouse.... And this package looks like a cool way to recreate the context sensitive text actions: https://github.com/cmpitg/wand https://github.com/cmpitg/wand Combining the approach from the first and the wand package could potentially surpass the acme experience by making it easier to customize and extend. My friend joked about how I'm religious about the keyboard, but really it's about the right tool for the job, and if I had an acme-like mouse experience with emacs I'd def be mousing around more often. Funny that compared to normal people I'm a keyboard fanatic but compared to majority of emacs users I'm on the mouse way more often :)
klik99 5y ago
Did you use https://code.google.com/archive/p/acme-sac/ https://code.google.com/archive/p/acme-sac/ or acme in p9 or inferno? I only had limited experience with acme in p9 during some experiments with distributed audio, but once it clicked with me it made a huge impact on me - similar to when I first grokked emacs.