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This tactic is pretty common to get you into a possible MLM scheme. It happened twice to me, and once to my wife. They'll strike up a conversation with you whil

This tactic is pretty common to get you into a possible MLM scheme. It happened twice to me, and once to my wife. They'll strike up a conversation with you while shopping by commenting on a nice article of clothing or something about you, which leads into a convo about where you work, etc. They're so personable that you're thinking oh nice, I have a new friend and agree to have coffee. Then the second steps and on as the author mentions happens where they start to ask personal questions like if you're happy in life, what would it be like to not have any debt, retire early, etc. This all happens over two-three meetings where they then start to talk about they have a group or mentor they work with that can get you going with your life goals. We never made it into the actual meet the group / mentor part as we knew at this point something felt scammy about it and broke off contact after that.

damontal 5y ago
My assumption based on experience is that any stranger who strikes up a conversation with me is either mentally unstable or is looking to get something from me.
- smugma 5y ago
  Today I said “beautiful day out” to some guy who looked maybe homeless. He immediately offered me a beer, which was nice, but I declined as I had 4 kids to watch at the beach. It turned out we went to the same college (Berkeley) and he graduated a year before I started. He was on the football team and knew my old roommate, who was also on the team. He definitely was a bit weird. Visiting SF from Alaska after his wife’s death, but totally friendly and not creepy. Interesting enough that I felt like I had a story to tell without being creeped out. It’s been a long two years, and I missed these sorts of small interactions with people very different than me.
- positus 5y ago
  That sounds like a miserable way to live. Do you have the same assumptions when others engage you in conversation over the internet, or is it only in person?
  - dharmab 5y ago
    This might be a regional/cultural difference. In my city in a flyover state, any stranger who tries to talk to you beyond small talk is almost certainly going to try to sell you something. (Obviously, outside of socialization contexts such as bars, clubs, meetups, etc)
  - SketchySeaBeast 5y ago
    Nice try cultist!
  - xwdv 5y ago
    Most people live miserable lives, especially in this day and age. Occasionally there are moments of joy, but they are fleeting.
    - recursive 5y ago
      If that's really true, I'm even more privileged than I realize. I'm rarely miserable. I thought that was pretty normal.
      - fladrif 5y ago
        To be fair, rarely do people have an accurate grasp on what normality is. Just the breadth of human experience is impossible to capture much less experience and process, not to mention the experience of people that is never expressed (I may be having a bad week, but I wouldn't express it, much less share it openly with coworkers)
        sammalloy 5y ago
        > To be fair, rarely do people have an accurate grasp on what normality is. Well said. I’ve been thinking about this idea for a very long time. Like another user said above, the negativity bias has a large role to play here. I live in a small town and talking with strangers is considered normal and healthy.
  - damontal 5y ago
- woodruffw 5y ago
  I've also had plenty of terrible experiences with strangers trying to talk to me. But I think it's wrong to build a policy from that: I've also had plenty of great conversations with complete strangers, some of them in contexts where I'd be considered "captive" if I wasn't a willing participant (airplanes, trains, etc.). IMO, serendipitous conversations are a key part of a healthy society. Few things have as strong of a humanizing effect.
  - bavila 5y ago
    Context is definitely important. If I'm in a situation where I'm obviously just trying to get some work done in a coffee shop, I'd going to be very skeptical of a stranger who insists on striking up a conversation with me. It's just too pushy and frankly kind of creepy. However, I've also done some backpacking on the Appalachian Trail several years ago, and it's far more socially acceptable to start up a conversation with random people you meet along the way. It's understood that we're all strangers but we have a shared goal of hiking the trail, and what else are we going to do when we stop for the night other than chat a bit with the other people in the area? Had almost nothing but positive experiences speaking with random people while hiking, except for one nutcase (trail name was Mountain Lion) who was carrying a firearm and disclosed to me that he was kicked out of the military for mental health reasons (got to appreciate his honesty, though). I made sure to put as much distance between the two of us ASAP. Later found out he ran out of food, tried to steal from other people, and had to get airlifted out after getting injured. Good times.
    - woodruffw 5y ago
      Certainly; context accounts for a lot. I wouldn't wish Mountain Lion on anyone :-) I think what it boils down to for me is this: the world is full of loons. If we don't allow ourselves to be open to spontaneous interactions, the average spontaneous interaction we have is more likely to be one involving a loon. Those memories also tend to be more salient because of their negativity, so we need to be intentional in remembering all of the lesser but positive experiences we've had with strangers.
  - endgame 5y ago
- xwdv 5y ago
  This has been my observation as well, and this is why I look at compliments with great cynicism, and why I do not give compliments or strike up conversations. And if I do want something from someone, I state those intentions early so they don’t think my conversation is a ruse.
  - nobody9999 5y ago
    >This has been my observation as well, and this is why I look at compliments with great cynicism, and why I do not give compliments or strike up conversations. And if I do want something from someone, I state those intentions early so they don’t think my conversation is a ruse. Please don't take this as a jab at you as it certainly isn't intended to be. That said, you express a really transactional view of human interactions. That seems to be a sad way to view the rest of your fellow humans. Transactional interactions are a normal part of life but, at least for me, I will interact with people, including strangers, because I like interacting with people, not because I want something from them. Obviously, when transacting with a cashier, a shopkeeper, a waiter, etc. it's transactional. But in other circumstances, and even sometimes in those circumstances (if that's not inconveniencing them) I will engage others without any expectations or intent to manipulate or use those folks. Sure, there are folks out there who will engage with you because they want something from you. In my experience, however (and I've lived most of my life in NYC and travelled quite a bit around the US and less around the world) most people are decent, kind people who aren't out to get something from you or trying to scam you.
- recuter 5y ago
  You're not wrong, especially if you live in NYC or most of California. But this is a cultural thing. Roberto Benigni type people are real, they might just not be around where you live. Consider moving. Whether you move away or towards where these sort of characters congregate is of course entirely up to you. If you would like to know which places to seek out/avoid feel free to chime in. P.S. - Please don't go to Rome and expect it to be filled with Benignis.
  - fellowniusmonk 5y ago
    Best part about Austin outdoor culture is the random friendly conversations, met a dude who founded arcade fire like 6 months ago just because we we're talking about places to eat. It's just part of Austin's hippy music fest heritage and is the best part.
  - borski 5y ago
    I’ve had more serendipitous and pleasant conversations in NYC and CA (both places I’ve lived) than anywhere else. :) It’s not limited to Austin or the south. :)
    - tomcam 5y ago
      Yes. I have found people in New York City to be generally enjoyable and willing to help. The same was true in Southern California, where I lived for years. My Chinese wife was blown away at how helpful Americans tend to be.
      - gumby 5y ago
        Yes, when my cousin came to visit me she was terrified that her family would be gunned down in the street. You can’t tell from the news but Americans are generally friendly and helpful in person. The Borat film was supposed to show how deranged Americans are but the half I watched was all about people trying to be nice to him despite his antics.
        tomcam 5y ago
- samuellavoie90 5y ago
  In the U.S., its part of their culture that striking up a conversation with a total stranger is normal. It just looks weird to the rest of the world, but I think it works out in their favor.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- wslack 5y ago
  This is region dependent. In the US South its normal to have light conversations with strangers in public spaces (waiting in line, for example).
  - silisili 5y ago
    Yeah, I do this. I don't like just passing time on a phone like many seem to, so anytime I get bored(lines, DMV, airport, airplane) I'll strike up conversation. Then again maybe I'm just a bit mentally unstable...
    - JasonFruit 5y ago
      I personally love when people do that. I'm a homeschooling stay at home father, so I don't have a wide or close social circle; I thrive on those casual conversations.
      - jsnodlin 5y ago
  - astura 5y ago
    It's normal most places in the US, not just the south. I've had plenty of light conversations with strangers in public spaces in the Northeast.
- thrownawayalre 5y ago
  That changes with kids fortunately. Parents bringing their kids to playgrounds, that have not much to do except talking to other parents. Being at a playground with their own kid filters out most mentally unstable or interested parties. Very easy to strike conversations if kids have the same age. Lots of opportunities for new and sane friendships, with who you can then double-date when their kid come home to play with yours.
  - sjg007 5y ago
    Ski resorts are another one. Everyone is there for the snow so you can chat with folks on the lift or apres ski.
    - robocat 5y ago
      There is a selection bias at ski resorts. And plenty of the interactions are a single serving, so comparatively safe. I presume you can still get an elevator/lift pitch.
  - ryandrake 5y ago
    Having a kid really expanded my social circle. Im a shutin hermit and she is a social butterfly and makes friends in seconds, so she probably knows 100x more people in our community than I do. So I frequently have to stand there hanging around with stranger parents because my kid is suddenly best friends with their kid. These interactions have grown to the point where we have a “local dads” poker night and all we have to do with each other is our kids’ social circles. It’s actually kind of wholesome.
  - thwayunion 5y ago
    The MLM stuff is STRONG in the SAHM community, though. I don't get any of it, fortunately, but for the wife it's every other convo at the playground.
- 0_____0 5y ago
  How would you rate your social intuition? I would rate mine as moderate, undermined by anxious traits, but it's typically pretty obvious when someone is unstable/potentially dangerous or panhandling. I live in a major US metro and somewhat routinely talk briefly with people I encounter in a low-stakes way.
- TuringNYC 5y ago
  The sad thing is that -- this is how I met almost all my friends. Through random conversations. I agree that random convos at work/school are much less likely to be MLM, but I always wonder about what i'm missing when I filter too much. My best friend from college -- 25 years still -- is someone I met on line, waiting for lunch. I get pretty annoyed with MLM sales pitches, but I dont think we should close ourselves off to the world with strict policies on social interactions.
  - bongoman37 5y ago
- borski 5y ago
  This is a bad assumption. I often do this because I’m an extrovert and find other people interesting/fascinating, but want nothing from you and, to my knowledge, am not mentally unstable. :) To be fair, I don’t lead with “have you ever done therapy?” or “what does it mean to be alive?” haha
- monksy 5y ago
  Or they're trying to get me to use Javascript.
- aidenn0 5y ago
  Maybe this is false nostalgia, but I feel like this is more true post smartphones than pre-smartphones. More people will just pop out their phones and check their messages/mail/play a game rather than talk to people around them; a fair amount of casual interactions were bored people stuck waiting in the same place.
- walrus01 5y ago
  > My assumption based on experience is that any stranger who strikes up a conversation with me is either mentally unstable or is looking to get something from me. I operate under this assumption any time I'm somewhere in a big city, unless I'm attending an event where people are specifically mixed together and expected to talk to each other (professional conference, etc) in a small town of 200-300 people/very rural area, I take a different approach of course
  - brimble 5y ago
    > in a small town of 200-300 people/very rural area, I take a different approach of course Hell, in a town that size, you know the mentally unstable folks and might even enjoy chatting with (some of) them if you see 'em at the feed store.
- gumby 5y ago
  This is why I find it hard to just strike up a conversation, even at a conference. I’ve always admired people who can. At a party, it’s no problem.
- alliao 5y ago
  it's so unfortunate. I am an immigrant that left my birth country quite young, but I still remember couple of good friends. Out of around 7 friends whom I remembered their name and details enough that I later track them down online, only 1 replied, the rest all said they've been burnt heaps through the years by scammers etc. And that was it.
- leephillips 5y ago
  I pepper spray anyone who makes eye contact. So far, 100% success rate on not being recruited into a cult or MLM scheme.
- pdonis 5y ago
  For me it depends on what kind of conversation it is. I'll gladly exchange pleasantries with strangers and even have brief conversations when it's clear what the boundaries are--for example, someone in line behind me at the supermarket, where it's understood that as soon as I've checked out, I'm leaving. Where I draw the line is when strangers try to push a conversation beyond clear boundaries, or try to push a conversation in a situation where the boundaries aren't clear and they can try to manipulate them. That's what would have put me off in the "First Contact" episode in the article. For me it probably also helps that I'm an introvert and I have no problem just ending a conversation and going back to whatever I was doing. For example, at the point where the woman started asking follow-up questions, I would have said something like "I'm not really familiar with those places, sorry", and gone back to what I was doing.
- jimmont 5y ago
  What a remarkably unhealthy perspective. Yet engaged in communication here. My first thought was you must be American, but that could just as easily be quite a number of places and cultures across continents. In Israel personal boundaries are quite different and it's common to engage those around you in conversation. I wouldn't correlate mental stability with social norms--frankly I associate health with social engagement, so the opposite.
- mettamage 5y ago
  If you mean that I'm bored and want to kill time by having a conversation with a stranger, then you got me.
- rurban 5y ago
  Or it might be just a typical American. in Europe they are rare, but over in the states or on airports you are constantly small-talked about nothing. And then you can easily torpedo this small talk by actually being honest. that's what they are not used to at all.
- Krasnol 5y ago
  I got a new job and now I have to take the lift up to my office. I regularly take the lift and have at least once a day some random chat for the duration of the lift tour. Not all strangers are that bad and(but?) this is Germany!
cf100clunk 5y ago
Another tactic they'll try is to get to you as a captive audience, such as on a ferry, bus ride, in an airport waiting area during a long layover, etc. If they're on the same vacation package you'll need to be firm about avoiding them.
moab9 5y ago
that's why it's best to flip the script and demand that they join your cult on the first meeting. Offer a free haircut if they balk.
- nonrandomstring 5y ago
  There's a ton of wisdom in this. Seriously. Humour is a social lubricant and barometer/test signal. To the OP: Interesting and enjoyable story. You already said your gut instinct alarm bells were set to red alert, but you were not following them. Why? What did you hope get out of this interaction that let it go to four rounds? There's one phrase that sticks out from a training on social engineering we had here recently - "you can't con an honest person". And that means a person who is honest with themself. All this time you are thinking about "what did they want?" Maybe the question you should be asking is what did I want? To get back to work. But you didn't. If the answer is really "nothing" then a genuine friendship might be in the offing. Otherwise, one or both of you is playing a game. Test that by pushing away - not just politely playing within the polite parameters of normalcy - a good con artist will already have those exists mapped out. Chuck in an unexpected dirty or ridiculous joke. Humour throws a swerve-ball that should reset the power relationship. If you get back "psychoanalysis" instead of a belly laugh, take a walk.
drawkbox 5y ago
Yeah potentially an MLM, religion or cult. The initial introduction has parallels to "flirty fishing" [1] and "love bombing" [2] which are known cult tactics. The extreme end of that is sexpionage but the early side of that is finding a single male that may have some money or influence and using that to corral them into their group, whatever that group it. This is extremely common in espionage as well if anyone works in highly sensitive or technical areas. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flirty_Fishing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flirty_Fishing [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Love_bombing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Love_bombing
- kevin_thibedeau 5y ago
  I suspect a TLA did this to me during a background investigation. A woman (as far as I knew) divulged she was Iranian and solicited my opinion.
  - xur17 5y ago
    What is TLA?
    - ocdtrekkie 5y ago
      Three letter acronym. Aka, CIA, FBI, NSA, etc.
      - pacificmint 5y ago
        I’ve always heard it as “Three letter Agency”, when used in this context specifically.
  - walrus01 5y ago
    Did you submit a SF-86 to the OPM and were in the process of going through the formal background investigation at that time?
    - kevin_thibedeau 5y ago
colechristensen 5y ago
I went to one of the MLM get-you-hooked events in a hotel ballroom. I knew what it was and was just curious what it would look like and an old high school classmate was trying to loop me in. It wasn't really cultish, just a bunch of people who didn't really understand business trying to scam you into selling their crap.
MiddleEndian 5y ago
I had a guy do something similar to me. He was hanging out with some of my friends and shared the last name of two brothers we knew, so I figured he was their cousin or something. Eventually he invited me out to some fancy bar with the secret intention of trying to get me to invest in his wacky financial bullshit, which was immediately obvious after about five minutes of conversation. He kept asking about my investments and I kept giving him completely contradictory answers as he kept buying me drinks, pretending to agree with me, and telling me about some "zero risk" opportunities. Eventually when he started trying to press me for a more direct answer, I was like "nah not interested" and left, got a free meal out of it on top of the free drinks lol. Later I brought up the experience to a couple of my friends who were around when I met him and they weren't sure who he was either, apparently he was unrelated to the other guys. Never saw him again.
- sammalloy 5y ago
  He was a con man. Watch "Better Call Saul". They have several episodes in the series featuring this exact con.
  - MiddleEndian 5y ago
    He was for sure. I'll always wonder if he noticed I was deliberately answering his questions inconsistently or just thought I was a massively confused mark. I'm part of the way through Better Call Saul, so I'm sure I'll run into it eventually.
    - DonHopkins 5y ago
      Did he ask you to let him video tape you sitting on pies? https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Squat%20Cobbler https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Squat%20Cobb...
      - MiddleEndian 5y ago
        lol I definitely need to start season 2
alx__ 5y ago
I got sucked into a cult-like church in my 20s. It's like a drug when you're feeling down in life. I'm more attuned to this level of bullshit now. But not everyone is which is why these tactics work. I'll still engage if a stranger talks to me and try to be affable but will maintain a healthy level of distrust. Because sometimes people just like to chat with a stranger in hopes of friendship. Have a friend who made friends with the lead singer of a somewhat popular indie band. Didn't even know who he was until after several months of hanging out :D
mortenjorck 5y ago
I once had someone I knew from college reach out a couple of years after we'd graduated with the premise of catching up and talking about "some stuff he was working on." I had no prior knowledge of MLM, but only a few minutes into our conversation, it was immediately clear to me that he was using some kind of rehearsed language, and my skepticism was raised. At some point, it segued into talk of financial independence and envisioning what that would look like for me, and it was suddenly clear to me what the psychological intent of the exercise was. I politely heard him out, suggested I'd get back to him once I'd had some time to think it over, and did so the next day, obviously declining. I hope he got back on the right track.
lifeplusplus 5y ago
I once went to discuss "business opportunity" with someone, sounded odd but I was fresh freelancer and would take any work. Right away I knew it was about me and business was mlm. The guy emphasized how we are selling vitamins. I was like great, vitamins is indeed big biz but online world is bit of a winner take all, how much does it cost and then asked him to search similar product on Amazon. Behold half the price. Enjoyed watching him fold and act dumb
tunesmith 5y ago
It's kind of funny when recruitment happens in a much clumsier fashion, like when I was in college there was a clean-cut sweaty guy hanging out next to the pharmacy counter, and he kept looking at me and fidgeting. Finally, when I walked a little closer and glanced at him for some direct eye contact, he blurted out, "Do you want to go to church with me?!?" At the time I thought it was creepy - years later I'm like... aww, poor kid. He must have been so nervous!
- function_seven 5y ago
  Similar story here. One of my first jobs—still in high school–was working at an office supply chain. There was this really cute girl who was just hired. One night, as I was facing all the shelves in my section, she approaches me with this look in her eye like she had been working up the courage to talk to me. She clearly had something very important to say. I was very interested, of course! She was a hottie. "I have something to ask you...", she started, nervous and flirty-like. Is this what it's like to be hit on?, I'm thinking. "...have you accepted Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior? You know He loves you very much." I've never before or since been whiplashed like that. I smiled politely, lied about my acceptance of Him and made an excuse to move somewhere else. Had I been thirstier, I might have joined the church just for her :)
incanus77 5y ago
I came here to add the MLM angle too. It happened to me about 25 years ago, when I was working at Radio Shack during college. I'm actually only remembering some of this now. I was pretty good at sales, especially with older people, as I truly listened and tried to bridge the gap between a person's needs and what we sold, and without being too pushy. An older couple came in and asked me about (at the time) the Compaq computers that we sold. He was in a wheelchair and smelled vaguely of urine. They were sweet and asked a lot of questions about the computers and what they could do, which I was happy to oblige. It was feeling like a real solid sale potential since we had talked for so long and they had asked so many questions. After a bit, they offered me a business card and mentioned that they too were in the sales business. We agreed to meet sometime. I don't recall if I met just the two of them a second time or we moved straight to the third guy, but he was invited along. He was a bit older than me, dressed "fancy" but in a sort of shabby way, i.e. a three-piece suit that he seemed to have gotten at a thrift store. He had thick glasses and an air of desperation about him that I could recognize even as a naive kid. I think we met at a Wendy's. He soon brought up Amway. I don't remember how I got out of things, but I do remember everyone all around being pissed and implying or outright saying that I had wasted their time. But honestly, I wasn't interested. I truly wanted to continue working at Radio Shack while working on my side businesses and getting through school. I had enough going on.
- galaxyLogic 5y ago
  What is MLM?
  - kradeelav 5y ago
    Multi-Level-Marketing. Otherwise known as a pyramid scheme.
    - lolinder 5y ago
      Strictly speaking, the two are different. A pyramid scheme doesn't involve the production or sale of actual goods or services, you're literally just rewarded for bringing other people in. An MLM will usually have a product that it sells in addition to rewarding recruitment. Theoretically, in an MLM, you can make money just by selling products. MLMs are usually shady but are technically legal. Pyramid schemes are always illegal.
Aerroon 5y ago
I was invited to an MLM recruitment meeting once when I was barely out of school. To me the whole thing seemed very obvious. I could see how it would make some people money, but I knew I wasn't the type of person who could naturally pull that off. I told them as much privately and I wasn't bothered by it again. The cookies they offered were delicious though. Now that I'm older I wonder if being part of that would've taught me some of that charisma the people there exuded. They just seemed so likable and I wish I could at least emulate that.
- astura 5y ago
  It probably would do the opposite - MLMs teach you to turn every single interaction with another human being a sales pitch. People tend to be really put off by that.
wespiser_2018 5y ago
This exact thing happened to me while I was in self checkout at my local grocery store, and I found myself having the most awkward conversation about my life, goals, and this vague concept of "mentorship". I kept explaining that there are people I look up to and those people will give me advice on things, and I work for more reasons to make money, but the conversation was just very uncomfortable and bizarre. It took me a while to put my experience in perspective, or even explain it, but after a while I found out there are several of these mentorship/get rich schemes roughly based around the ideas in "Rich Dad, Poor Dad" that involve basically recruiting strangers to form an MLM like downline. The basic pitch is: "If you had all the money in the world what would you do? [insert conversation here about what you'd do] We can give that to you if you follow us!". Obviously I'm not going to follow someone who fell for that! Fortunately, I abruptly left this conversation mid-sentence because I was started to get freaked out by intrusiveness of it all. Very weird, and definitely an exploit on peoples willingness to be accommodating and friendly to strangers.
staticautomatic 5y ago
I encountered this once and was just sooooo confused when they got to the part about how the mentor had helped them make all this money and achieve all these life goals. I was like, “and so now you’re…hustling people at a Starbucks in Vacaville?”
m463 5y ago
that's exactly what I was thinking. A long time ago an older couple involved my then gf and I in conversations. I can't recall exactly how we met. At some point I said something like, "that sounds like amway or something"... and the husband admitted, well yes it was amway. didn't go much further after that. (actually, my actual word was "scamway", lol)
tippytippytango 5y ago
Happened to me too, met them in some shop, met later at a coffee shop nearby. Thought I was making a friend and my heart sank when they mentioned their "mentor", then I knew I had been tricked. I was pissed and profoundly disappointed in myself. I just started talking and talking. I don't even remember what I said, I just didn't shut up. But, they couldn't leave because I was so nice. It was a strange intuitive reaction, it wasn't a conscious decision. It's like I pinned them down with words until I had had enough, wasting their time. The funny thing was, they got it. They didn't want to follow up, they had my number; but, never reached out again, they just wanted out of there. Whenever anyone of these people approaches me I do the same thing, I just start talking, having fun with it too. Just burning time taking about 3d printing or whatever random stuff I think of. Anytime they try to take control of the conversation... "oh wow that makes me think of..."

damontal 5y ago

My assumption based on experience is that any stranger who strikes up a conversation with me is either mentally unstable or is looking to get something from me.

smugma 5y ago
Today I said “beautiful day out” to some guy who looked maybe homeless. He immediately offered me a beer, which was nice, but I declined as I had 4 kids to watch at the beach. It turned out we went to the same college (Berkeley) and he graduated a year before I started. He was on the football team and knew my old roommate, who was also on the team. He definitely was a bit weird. Visiting SF from Alaska after his wife’s death, but totally friendly and not creepy. Interesting enough that I felt like I had a story to tell without being creeped out. It’s been a long two years, and I missed these sorts of small interactions with people very different than me.
positus 5y ago
That sounds like a miserable way to live. Do you have the same assumptions when others engage you in conversation over the internet, or is it only in person?
- dharmab 5y ago
  This might be a regional/cultural difference. In my city in a flyover state, any stranger who tries to talk to you beyond small talk is almost certainly going to try to sell you something. (Obviously, outside of socialization contexts such as bars, clubs, meetups, etc)
- SketchySeaBeast 5y ago
  Nice try cultist!
- xwdv 5y ago
  Most people live miserable lives, especially in this day and age. Occasionally there are moments of joy, but they are fleeting.
  - recursive 5y ago
    If that's really true, I'm even more privileged than I realize. I'm rarely miserable. I thought that was pretty normal.
    - fladrif 5y ago
      To be fair, rarely do people have an accurate grasp on what normality is. Just the breadth of human experience is impossible to capture much less experience and process, not to mention the experience of people that is never expressed (I may be having a bad week, but I wouldn't express it, much less share it openly with coworkers)
      - sammalloy 5y ago
        > To be fair, rarely do people have an accurate grasp on what normality is. Well said. I’ve been thinking about this idea for a very long time. Like another user said above, the negativity bias has a large role to play here. I live in a small town and talking with strangers is considered normal and healthy.
- damontal 5y ago
woodruffw 5y ago
I've also had plenty of terrible experiences with strangers trying to talk to me. But I think it's wrong to build a policy from that: I've also had plenty of great conversations with complete strangers, some of them in contexts where I'd be considered "captive" if I wasn't a willing participant (airplanes, trains, etc.). IMO, serendipitous conversations are a key part of a healthy society. Few things have as strong of a humanizing effect.
- bavila 5y ago
  Context is definitely important. If I'm in a situation where I'm obviously just trying to get some work done in a coffee shop, I'd going to be very skeptical of a stranger who insists on striking up a conversation with me. It's just too pushy and frankly kind of creepy. However, I've also done some backpacking on the Appalachian Trail several years ago, and it's far more socially acceptable to start up a conversation with random people you meet along the way. It's understood that we're all strangers but we have a shared goal of hiking the trail, and what else are we going to do when we stop for the night other than chat a bit with the other people in the area? Had almost nothing but positive experiences speaking with random people while hiking, except for one nutcase (trail name was Mountain Lion) who was carrying a firearm and disclosed to me that he was kicked out of the military for mental health reasons (got to appreciate his honesty, though). I made sure to put as much distance between the two of us ASAP. Later found out he ran out of food, tried to steal from other people, and had to get airlifted out after getting injured. Good times.
  - woodruffw 5y ago
    Certainly; context accounts for a lot. I wouldn't wish Mountain Lion on anyone :-) I think what it boils down to for me is this: the world is full of loons. If we don't allow ourselves to be open to spontaneous interactions, the average spontaneous interaction we have is more likely to be one involving a loon. Those memories also tend to be more salient because of their negativity, so we need to be intentional in remembering all of the lesser but positive experiences we've had with strangers.
- endgame 5y ago
xwdv 5y ago
This has been my observation as well, and this is why I look at compliments with great cynicism, and why I do not give compliments or strike up conversations. And if I do want something from someone, I state those intentions early so they don’t think my conversation is a ruse.
- nobody9999 5y ago
  >This has been my observation as well, and this is why I look at compliments with great cynicism, and why I do not give compliments or strike up conversations. And if I do want something from someone, I state those intentions early so they don’t think my conversation is a ruse. Please don't take this as a jab at you as it certainly isn't intended to be. That said, you express a really transactional view of human interactions. That seems to be a sad way to view the rest of your fellow humans. Transactional interactions are a normal part of life but, at least for me, I will interact with people, including strangers, because I like interacting with people, not because I want something from them. Obviously, when transacting with a cashier, a shopkeeper, a waiter, etc. it's transactional. But in other circumstances, and even sometimes in those circumstances (if that's not inconveniencing them) I will engage others without any expectations or intent to manipulate or use those folks. Sure, there are folks out there who will engage with you because they want something from you. In my experience, however (and I've lived most of my life in NYC and travelled quite a bit around the US and less around the world) most people are decent, kind people who aren't out to get something from you or trying to scam you.
recuter 5y ago
You're not wrong, especially if you live in NYC or most of California. But this is a cultural thing. Roberto Benigni type people are real, they might just not be around where you live. Consider moving. Whether you move away or towards where these sort of characters congregate is of course entirely up to you. If you would like to know which places to seek out/avoid feel free to chime in. P.S. - Please don't go to Rome and expect it to be filled with Benignis.
- fellowniusmonk 5y ago
  Best part about Austin outdoor culture is the random friendly conversations, met a dude who founded arcade fire like 6 months ago just because we we're talking about places to eat. It's just part of Austin's hippy music fest heritage and is the best part.
- borski 5y ago
  I’ve had more serendipitous and pleasant conversations in NYC and CA (both places I’ve lived) than anywhere else. :) It’s not limited to Austin or the south. :)
  - tomcam 5y ago
    Yes. I have found people in New York City to be generally enjoyable and willing to help. The same was true in Southern California, where I lived for years. My Chinese wife was blown away at how helpful Americans tend to be.
    - gumby 5y ago
      Yes, when my cousin came to visit me she was terrified that her family would be gunned down in the street. You can’t tell from the news but Americans are generally friendly and helpful in person. The Borat film was supposed to show how deranged Americans are but the half I watched was all about people trying to be nice to him despite his antics.
      - tomcam 5y ago
samuellavoie90 5y ago
In the U.S., its part of their culture that striking up a conversation with a total stranger is normal. It just looks weird to the rest of the world, but I think it works out in their favor.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
wslack 5y ago
This is region dependent. In the US South its normal to have light conversations with strangers in public spaces (waiting in line, for example).
- silisili 5y ago
  Yeah, I do this. I don't like just passing time on a phone like many seem to, so anytime I get bored(lines, DMV, airport, airplane) I'll strike up conversation. Then again maybe I'm just a bit mentally unstable...
  - JasonFruit 5y ago
    I personally love when people do that. I'm a homeschooling stay at home father, so I don't have a wide or close social circle; I thrive on those casual conversations.
    - jsnodlin 5y ago
- astura 5y ago
  It's normal most places in the US, not just the south. I've had plenty of light conversations with strangers in public spaces in the Northeast.
thrownawayalre 5y ago
That changes with kids fortunately. Parents bringing their kids to playgrounds, that have not much to do except talking to other parents. Being at a playground with their own kid filters out most mentally unstable or interested parties. Very easy to strike conversations if kids have the same age. Lots of opportunities for new and sane friendships, with who you can then double-date when their kid come home to play with yours.
- sjg007 5y ago
  Ski resorts are another one. Everyone is there for the snow so you can chat with folks on the lift or apres ski.
  - robocat 5y ago
    There is a selection bias at ski resorts. And plenty of the interactions are a single serving, so comparatively safe. I presume you can still get an elevator/lift pitch.
- ryandrake 5y ago
  Having a kid really expanded my social circle. Im a shutin hermit and she is a social butterfly and makes friends in seconds, so she probably knows 100x more people in our community than I do. So I frequently have to stand there hanging around with stranger parents because my kid is suddenly best friends with their kid. These interactions have grown to the point where we have a “local dads” poker night and all we have to do with each other is our kids’ social circles. It’s actually kind of wholesome.
- thwayunion 5y ago
  The MLM stuff is STRONG in the SAHM community, though. I don't get any of it, fortunately, but for the wife it's every other convo at the playground.
0_____0 5y ago
How would you rate your social intuition? I would rate mine as moderate, undermined by anxious traits, but it's typically pretty obvious when someone is unstable/potentially dangerous or panhandling. I live in a major US metro and somewhat routinely talk briefly with people I encounter in a low-stakes way.
TuringNYC 5y ago
The sad thing is that -- this is how I met almost all my friends. Through random conversations. I agree that random convos at work/school are much less likely to be MLM, but I always wonder about what i'm missing when I filter too much. My best friend from college -- 25 years still -- is someone I met on line, waiting for lunch. I get pretty annoyed with MLM sales pitches, but I dont think we should close ourselves off to the world with strict policies on social interactions.
- bongoman37 5y ago
borski 5y ago
This is a bad assumption. I often do this because I’m an extrovert and find other people interesting/fascinating, but want nothing from you and, to my knowledge, am not mentally unstable. :) To be fair, I don’t lead with “have you ever done therapy?” or “what does it mean to be alive?” haha
monksy 5y ago
Or they're trying to get me to use Javascript.
aidenn0 5y ago
Maybe this is false nostalgia, but I feel like this is more true post smartphones than pre-smartphones. More people will just pop out their phones and check their messages/mail/play a game rather than talk to people around them; a fair amount of casual interactions were bored people stuck waiting in the same place.
walrus01 5y ago
> My assumption based on experience is that any stranger who strikes up a conversation with me is either mentally unstable or is looking to get something from me. I operate under this assumption any time I'm somewhere in a big city, unless I'm attending an event where people are specifically mixed together and expected to talk to each other (professional conference, etc) in a small town of 200-300 people/very rural area, I take a different approach of course
- brimble 5y ago
  > in a small town of 200-300 people/very rural area, I take a different approach of course Hell, in a town that size, you know the mentally unstable folks and might even enjoy chatting with (some of) them if you see 'em at the feed store.
gumby 5y ago
This is why I find it hard to just strike up a conversation, even at a conference. I’ve always admired people who can. At a party, it’s no problem.
alliao 5y ago
it's so unfortunate. I am an immigrant that left my birth country quite young, but I still remember couple of good friends. Out of around 7 friends whom I remembered their name and details enough that I later track them down online, only 1 replied, the rest all said they've been burnt heaps through the years by scammers etc. And that was it.
leephillips 5y ago
I pepper spray anyone who makes eye contact. So far, 100% success rate on not being recruited into a cult or MLM scheme.
pdonis 5y ago
For me it depends on what kind of conversation it is. I'll gladly exchange pleasantries with strangers and even have brief conversations when it's clear what the boundaries are--for example, someone in line behind me at the supermarket, where it's understood that as soon as I've checked out, I'm leaving. Where I draw the line is when strangers try to push a conversation beyond clear boundaries, or try to push a conversation in a situation where the boundaries aren't clear and they can try to manipulate them. That's what would have put me off in the "First Contact" episode in the article. For me it probably also helps that I'm an introvert and I have no problem just ending a conversation and going back to whatever I was doing. For example, at the point where the woman started asking follow-up questions, I would have said something like "I'm not really familiar with those places, sorry", and gone back to what I was doing.
jimmont 5y ago
What a remarkably unhealthy perspective. Yet engaged in communication here. My first thought was you must be American, but that could just as easily be quite a number of places and cultures across continents. In Israel personal boundaries are quite different and it's common to engage those around you in conversation. I wouldn't correlate mental stability with social norms--frankly I associate health with social engagement, so the opposite.
mettamage 5y ago
If you mean that I'm bored and want to kill time by having a conversation with a stranger, then you got me.
rurban 5y ago
Or it might be just a typical American. in Europe they are rare, but over in the states or on airports you are constantly small-talked about nothing. And then you can easily torpedo this small talk by actually being honest. that's what they are not used to at all.
Krasnol 5y ago
I got a new job and now I have to take the lift up to my office. I regularly take the lift and have at least once a day some random chat for the duration of the lift tour. Not all strangers are that bad and(but?) this is Germany!

cf100clunk 5y ago

Another tactic they'll try is to get to you as a captive audience, such as on a ferry, bus ride, in an airport waiting area during a long layover, etc. If they're on the same vacation package you'll need to be firm about avoiding them.

moab9 5y ago

that's why it's best to flip the script and demand that they join your cult on the first meeting. Offer a free haircut if they balk.

nonrandomstring 5y ago
There's a ton of wisdom in this. Seriously. Humour is a social lubricant and barometer/test signal. To the OP: Interesting and enjoyable story. You already said your gut instinct alarm bells were set to red alert, but you were not following them. Why? What did you hope get out of this interaction that let it go to four rounds? There's one phrase that sticks out from a training on social engineering we had here recently - "you can't con an honest person". And that means a person who is honest with themself. All this time you are thinking about "what did they want?" Maybe the question you should be asking is what did I want? To get back to work. But you didn't. If the answer is really "nothing" then a genuine friendship might be in the offing. Otherwise, one or both of you is playing a game. Test that by pushing away - not just politely playing within the polite parameters of normalcy - a good con artist will already have those exists mapped out. Chuck in an unexpected dirty or ridiculous joke. Humour throws a swerve-ball that should reset the power relationship. If you get back "psychoanalysis" instead of a belly laugh, take a walk.

drawkbox 5y ago

Yeah potentially an MLM, religion or cult. The initial introduction has parallels to "flirty fishing" [1] and "love bombing" [2] which are known cult tactics. The extreme end of that is sexpionage but the early side of that is finding a single male that may have some money or influence and using that to corral them into their group, whatever that group it. This is extremely common in espionage as well if anyone works in highly sensitive or technical areas. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flirty_Fishing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flirty_Fishing [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Love_bombing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Love_bombing

kevin_thibedeau 5y ago
I suspect a TLA did this to me during a background investigation. A woman (as far as I knew) divulged she was Iranian and solicited my opinion.
- xur17 5y ago
  What is TLA?
  - ocdtrekkie 5y ago
    Three letter acronym. Aka, CIA, FBI, NSA, etc.
    - pacificmint 5y ago
      I’ve always heard it as “Three letter Agency”, when used in this context specifically.
- walrus01 5y ago
  Did you submit a SF-86 to the OPM and were in the process of going through the formal background investigation at that time?
  - kevin_thibedeau 5y ago

colechristensen 5y ago

I went to one of the MLM get-you-hooked events in a hotel ballroom. I knew what it was and was just curious what it would look like and an old high school classmate was trying to loop me in. It wasn't really cultish, just a bunch of people who didn't really understand business trying to scam you into selling their crap.

MiddleEndian 5y ago

I had a guy do something similar to me. He was hanging out with some of my friends and shared the last name of two brothers we knew, so I figured he was their cousin or something. Eventually he invited me out to some fancy bar with the secret intention of trying to get me to invest in his wacky financial bullshit, which was immediately obvious after about five minutes of conversation. He kept asking about my investments and I kept giving him completely contradictory answers as he kept buying me drinks, pretending to agree with me, and telling me about some "zero risk" opportunities. Eventually when he started trying to press me for a more direct answer, I was like "nah not interested" and left, got a free meal out of it on top of the free drinks lol. Later I brought up the experience to a couple of my friends who were around when I met him and they weren't sure who he was either, apparently he was unrelated to the other guys. Never saw him again.

sammalloy 5y ago
He was a con man. Watch "Better Call Saul". They have several episodes in the series featuring this exact con.
- MiddleEndian 5y ago
  He was for sure. I'll always wonder if he noticed I was deliberately answering his questions inconsistently or just thought I was a massively confused mark. I'm part of the way through Better Call Saul, so I'm sure I'll run into it eventually.
  - DonHopkins 5y ago
    Did he ask you to let him video tape you sitting on pies? https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Squat%20Cobbler https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Squat%20Cobb...
    - MiddleEndian 5y ago
      lol I definitely need to start season 2

alx__ 5y ago

I got sucked into a cult-like church in my 20s. It's like a drug when you're feeling down in life. I'm more attuned to this level of bullshit now. But not everyone is which is why these tactics work. I'll still engage if a stranger talks to me and try to be affable but will maintain a healthy level of distrust. Because sometimes people just like to chat with a stranger in hopes of friendship. Have a friend who made friends with the lead singer of a somewhat popular indie band. Didn't even know who he was until after several months of hanging out :D

mortenjorck 5y ago

I once had someone I knew from college reach out a couple of years after we'd graduated with the premise of catching up and talking about "some stuff he was working on." I had no prior knowledge of MLM, but only a few minutes into our conversation, it was immediately clear to me that he was using some kind of rehearsed language, and my skepticism was raised. At some point, it segued into talk of financial independence and envisioning what that would look like for me, and it was suddenly clear to me what the psychological intent of the exercise was. I politely heard him out, suggested I'd get back to him once I'd had some time to think it over, and did so the next day, obviously declining. I hope he got back on the right track.

lifeplusplus 5y ago

I once went to discuss "business opportunity" with someone, sounded odd but I was fresh freelancer and would take any work. Right away I knew it was about me and business was mlm. The guy emphasized how we are selling vitamins. I was like great, vitamins is indeed big biz but online world is bit of a winner take all, how much does it cost and then asked him to search similar product on Amazon. Behold half the price. Enjoyed watching him fold and act dumb

tunesmith 5y ago

It's kind of funny when recruitment happens in a much clumsier fashion, like when I was in college there was a clean-cut sweaty guy hanging out next to the pharmacy counter, and he kept looking at me and fidgeting. Finally, when I walked a little closer and glanced at him for some direct eye contact, he blurted out, "Do you want to go to church with me?!?" At the time I thought it was creepy - years later I'm like... aww, poor kid. He must have been so nervous!

function_seven 5y ago
Similar story here. One of my first jobs—still in high school–was working at an office supply chain. There was this really cute girl who was just hired. One night, as I was facing all the shelves in my section, she approaches me with this look in her eye like she had been working up the courage to talk to me. She clearly had something very important to say. I was very interested, of course! She was a hottie. "I have something to ask you...", she started, nervous and flirty-like. Is this what it's like to be hit on?, I'm thinking. "...have you accepted Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior? You know He loves you very much." I've never before or since been whiplashed like that. I smiled politely, lied about my acceptance of Him and made an excuse to move somewhere else. Had I been thirstier, I might have joined the church just for her :)

incanus77 5y ago

I came here to add the MLM angle too. It happened to me about 25 years ago, when I was working at Radio Shack during college. I'm actually only remembering some of this now. I was pretty good at sales, especially with older people, as I truly listened and tried to bridge the gap between a person's needs and what we sold, and without being too pushy. An older couple came in and asked me about (at the time) the Compaq computers that we sold. He was in a wheelchair and smelled vaguely of urine. They were sweet and asked a lot of questions about the computers and what they could do, which I was happy to oblige. It was feeling like a real solid sale potential since we had talked for so long and they had asked so many questions. After a bit, they offered me a business card and mentioned that they too were in the sales business. We agreed to meet sometime. I don't recall if I met just the two of them a second time or we moved straight to the third guy, but he was invited along. He was a bit older than me, dressed "fancy" but in a sort of shabby way, i.e. a three-piece suit that he seemed to have gotten at a thrift store. He had thick glasses and an air of desperation about him that I could recognize even as a naive kid. I think we met at a Wendy's. He soon brought up Amway. I don't remember how I got out of things, but I do remember everyone all around being pissed and implying or outright saying that I had wasted their time. But honestly, I wasn't interested. I truly wanted to continue working at Radio Shack while working on my side businesses and getting through school. I had enough going on.

galaxyLogic 5y ago
What is MLM?
- kradeelav 5y ago
  Multi-Level-Marketing. Otherwise known as a pyramid scheme.
  - lolinder 5y ago
    Strictly speaking, the two are different. A pyramid scheme doesn't involve the production or sale of actual goods or services, you're literally just rewarded for bringing other people in. An MLM will usually have a product that it sells in addition to rewarding recruitment. Theoretically, in an MLM, you can make money just by selling products. MLMs are usually shady but are technically legal. Pyramid schemes are always illegal.

Aerroon 5y ago

I was invited to an MLM recruitment meeting once when I was barely out of school. To me the whole thing seemed very obvious. I could see how it would make some people money, but I knew I wasn't the type of person who could naturally pull that off. I told them as much privately and I wasn't bothered by it again. The cookies they offered were delicious though. Now that I'm older I wonder if being part of that would've taught me some of that charisma the people there exuded. They just seemed so likable and I wish I could at least emulate that.

astura 5y ago
It probably would do the opposite - MLMs teach you to turn every single interaction with another human being a sales pitch. People tend to be really put off by that.

wespiser_2018 5y ago

This exact thing happened to me while I was in self checkout at my local grocery store, and I found myself having the most awkward conversation about my life, goals, and this vague concept of "mentorship". I kept explaining that there are people I look up to and those people will give me advice on things, and I work for more reasons to make money, but the conversation was just very uncomfortable and bizarre. It took me a while to put my experience in perspective, or even explain it, but after a while I found out there are several of these mentorship/get rich schemes roughly based around the ideas in "Rich Dad, Poor Dad" that involve basically recruiting strangers to form an MLM like downline. The basic pitch is: "If you had all the money in the world what would you do? [insert conversation here about what you'd do] We can give that to you if you follow us!". Obviously I'm not going to follow someone who fell for that! Fortunately, I abruptly left this conversation mid-sentence because I was started to get freaked out by intrusiveness of it all. Very weird, and definitely an exploit on peoples willingness to be accommodating and friendly to strangers.

staticautomatic 5y ago

I encountered this once and was just sooooo confused when they got to the part about how the mentor had helped them make all this money and achieve all these life goals. I was like, “and so now you’re…hustling people at a Starbucks in Vacaville?”

m463 5y ago

that's exactly what I was thinking. A long time ago an older couple involved my then gf and I in conversations. I can't recall exactly how we met. At some point I said something like, "that sounds like amway or something"... and the husband admitted, well yes it was amway. didn't go much further after that. (actually, my actual word was "scamway", lol)

tippytippytango 5y ago

Happened to me too, met them in some shop, met later at a coffee shop nearby. Thought I was making a friend and my heart sank when they mentioned their "mentor", then I knew I had been tricked. I was pissed and profoundly disappointed in myself. I just started talking and talking. I don't even remember what I said, I just didn't shut up. But, they couldn't leave because I was so nice. It was a strange intuitive reaction, it wasn't a conscious decision. It's like I pinned them down with words until I had had enough, wasting their time. The funny thing was, they got it. They didn't want to follow up, they had my number; but, never reached out again, they just wanted out of there. Whenever anyone of these people approaches me I do the same thing, I just start talking, having fun with it too. Just burning time taking about 3d printing or whatever random stuff I think of. Anytime they try to take control of the conversation... "oh wow that makes me think of..."