4 ms·

Germany here. Besides Squid Game and Parasite, I've not heard of most of them and in the case of PUBG, I wasn't aware it was from SK or in any way special in t

Germany here. Besides Squid Game and Parasite, I've not heard of most of them and in the case of PUBG, I wasn't aware it was from SK or in any way special in this seemingly endless pool of "the same game with another skin"-genre.

sho_hn 5y ago
Sure, but is there a Chinese or Japanese or Indonesian film or TV show you think just as many people around you know from the same time frame? And I mean, that's still anecdotal - what isn't anecdotal is that the upscale KaDeWe department store I live nearby in Berlin had a Korea week a while ago, and so on. And whose pop music export has flash mobs and dance troupes dancing to it in the streets of every major city for years now? As for gaming, I think another good example is the celebrity of various Korean e-sports athletes. I assure you there's plenty of young kids who can name them. In the end, my assertion is this: Right now, in terms of attention/popularity in Western pop culture (since we're relating to Neuromancer and fiction here), there's only one Asian country that is gaining at such a rate and is the most comparable to the attention Japan enjoyed in the time Neuromancer was written. I would also readily say that the Korean Wave isn't nearly at the same levels als Japanmania was in the 80s, though. Actually, not sure - I think it both isn't and is also dwarving it at the same time, due to changes in how media is consumed directly vs. impressions by proxy. Depends on the metric. Obviously there's also a lot of attention on China, but that's more related to economics and politics - although Liu Cixin's works as a scifi author would be a great and very topical example to the contrary! (There's other interesting comparisons to China to make, e.g. both had successful stretches in arthouse cinema with Wong Kar-Wai for example, but so far it's not really converted over to the mainstream for Chinese film.)
- wink 5y ago
  I've also not noticed anything besides Squid Game and Parasite here in Germany. Also not sure about the esports thing, maybe I'm looking in the wrong corner. 20 years ago when StarCraft was still on people's minds there was a meme about Koreans, but since then I wouldn't say there was anything spectacularly popular. And because a few K-Pop bands are now a bit more famous I wouldn't call this a hype cycle. Then again it's hard to tell, I've not been to a department store for 2 years, but I've not heard of any flash mob thingy in literal years. Maybe you're projecting Berlin's weirdness to the rest of us and it's just not there ;)
  - sho_hn 5y ago
    Well, I won't rule out Berlin being weird ... :) But it also raises the question of whether Japanmania was as big in Germany in the 80s as in the US to begin with (the pop song "Big in Japan" notwithstanding!), or if this was a BBS/Usenet discussion 30 years ago and I had written the same post about Japan instead, a hypothetical 80s you would have felt similarly.
    - wink 5y ago
      My point is more if I, a reasonably informed person about pop culture, have not noticed because none of my friends (some of whom have been k-pop fans for years) have never mentioned it or posted about it, then I have to assume I am either living under a rock, all my friends are deliberately hiding it, are also part of a bubble of non-noticers, or it's simply not a *mania.
whiskyant 5y ago
The recently popular Lost Ark is another video game by Korea. I'm surprised you've never heard of the kpop groups BTS or Blackpink in Germany.

sho_hn 5y ago

Sure, but is there a Chinese or Japanese or Indonesian film or TV show you think just as many people around you know from the same time frame? And I mean, that's still anecdotal - what isn't anecdotal is that the upscale KaDeWe department store I live nearby in Berlin had a Korea week a while ago, and so on. And whose pop music export has flash mobs and dance troupes dancing to it in the streets of every major city for years now? As for gaming, I think another good example is the celebrity of various Korean e-sports athletes. I assure you there's plenty of young kids who can name them. In the end, my assertion is this: Right now, in terms of attention/popularity in Western pop culture (since we're relating to Neuromancer and fiction here), there's only one Asian country that is gaining at such a rate and is the most comparable to the attention Japan enjoyed in the time Neuromancer was written. I would also readily say that the Korean Wave isn't nearly at the same levels als Japanmania was in the 80s, though. Actually, not sure - I think it both isn't and is also dwarving it at the same time, due to changes in how media is consumed directly vs. impressions by proxy. Depends on the metric. Obviously there's also a lot of attention on China, but that's more related to economics and politics - although Liu Cixin's works as a scifi author would be a great and very topical example to the contrary! (There's other interesting comparisons to China to make, e.g. both had successful stretches in arthouse cinema with Wong Kar-Wai for example, but so far it's not really converted over to the mainstream for Chinese film.)

wink 5y ago
I've also not noticed anything besides Squid Game and Parasite here in Germany. Also not sure about the esports thing, maybe I'm looking in the wrong corner. 20 years ago when StarCraft was still on people's minds there was a meme about Koreans, but since then I wouldn't say there was anything spectacularly popular. And because a few K-Pop bands are now a bit more famous I wouldn't call this a hype cycle. Then again it's hard to tell, I've not been to a department store for 2 years, but I've not heard of any flash mob thingy in literal years. Maybe you're projecting Berlin's weirdness to the rest of us and it's just not there ;)
- sho_hn 5y ago
  Well, I won't rule out Berlin being weird ... :) But it also raises the question of whether Japanmania was as big in Germany in the 80s as in the US to begin with (the pop song "Big in Japan" notwithstanding!), or if this was a BBS/Usenet discussion 30 years ago and I had written the same post about Japan instead, a hypothetical 80s you would have felt similarly.
  - wink 5y ago
    My point is more if I, a reasonably informed person about pop culture, have not noticed because none of my friends (some of whom have been k-pop fans for years) have never mentioned it or posted about it, then I have to assume I am either living under a rock, all my friends are deliberately hiding it, are also part of a bubble of non-noticers, or it's simply not a *mania.

whiskyant 5y ago

The recently popular Lost Ark is another video game by Korea. I'm surprised you've never heard of the kpop groups BTS or Blackpink in Germany.