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I may be seen as a villain to Ayn Rand disciples, mainly because I may point out I have seen people do amazing things without becoming billionaires at consumer

I may be seen as a villain to Ayn Rand disciples, mainly because I may point out I have seen people do amazing things without becoming billionaires at consumers expense.

nvggyjc 5y ago
At consumer's expense? Nobody is forced to buy a Tesla, people do it because they like having a car more than money. You can argue that Tesla in particular is successful off the back of the taxpayer; are you advocating against government incentives for electric vehicles?
- nullc 5y ago
  We're forced to share the road with them. Because Teslas are glass cannons with easily damaged body panels and a closed repair network that has extraordinary prices, their presence on the roads has a real impact on all of us. Who knows what costs we'll be exposed to as their somewhat suicidal 'self driving' functionality becomes exposed to more of the buysers they sold it to on the back of improbable promises (such as "your car will eventually pay for itself by acting as an antonymous taxi").
slibhb 5y ago
I'm not an Ayn Rand disciple. But she had a point about certain people and how they view the world. Musk is rich on paper but the stocks are massively overvalued for various reasons. The idea that "billionaires are evil people who exploit innocent laborers" is false and it comes from a place of resentment.
- cguess 5y ago
  She did talk about how certain people view the world. She also advocated for that world view, and then died on welfare (the irony). And yes, billionaires absolutely build their wealth on the backs of others. There's simply no way to become a billionaire without exploiting a system and taking advantage of others in some way. It may be legal, but legality took a sharp turn away from morality a long long time ago.
  - slibhb 5y ago
    I don't agree with Ayn Rand that welfare is bad. I also don't agree that charity is bad. I agree with her that some very smart people are completely consumed by resentment. > And yes, billionaires absolutely build their wealth on the backs of others. There's simply no way to become a billionaire without exploiting a system and taking advantage of others in some way. It may be legal, but legality took a sharp turn away from morality a long long time ago. You're just resentful of people who have accomplished more than you. What's stopping Bob, who makes less money than you toiling in a factory, from saying the exactly same thing about you? You're an exploiter, it's how you earn a living without getting your hands dirty.
beepbooptheory 5y ago
The everyday work of the normal laborer is more worthy of admiration and support than anything that happens in a board room, on the golf course, or in whatever internal email chain that decides these things. It's not amazing to be an investor and make big decisions that shape lives and the flow of money, that is simply what you can do when you are in that position. The worker who can live within the turmoil the former creates, and still find love and happiness, not to mention keep the lights on and take out the trash, are the true heroes of humanity.
- sillysaurusx 5y ago
  Unless they refuse to get vaccinated. It may seem like an off-topic point, but I recently had a big wake-up call with the kinds of people you mention. The flip side of your flowery description is that they're often short-sighted, vicious people who can get worked up into a frenzy with little warning, or reason. Sometimes they want to for no reason. You're trying to describe the nobility of people with no skills (valued by society). But imagine if the entire world were populated by them. Would you really want to live in it? And if not, can they be called heroes of humanity?
  - beepbooptheory 5y ago
    Beyond a few pretty questionable assumptions at work here (that the labor market is an effective decider of what skills are valuable to society full stop; that someone's labor dictates what skills they have; that what someone has to offer the labor market could correlate at all to something like character), I would simply reflect on whatever thought process has brought you to the situation where someone simply says, in so many words, that "the meek shall inherit the earth", and your first impulse is to say "no, in fact, they are shortsighted and viscious people who get whipped into frenzies for often no reason". I dont even think Rand would follow you there; I can't really think of any corollary to that sentiment other than fascist rhetoric. To know nothing of a group of people but how much they make at work, and to go that far in painting a picture of them... Its shocking! Haha I'm sure you mean well, and are genuinely reflecting, but this is not a good look at all to anybody but the most rightwing people. What amounts Idiocracy lore is not a suitable or humane thing to ground political beliefs on.

I may be seen as a villain to Ayn Rand disciples, mainly because I may point out I have seen people do amazing things without becoming billionaires at consumers expense.

nvggyjc 5y ago

At consumer's expense? Nobody is forced to buy a Tesla, people do it because they like having a car more than money. You can argue that Tesla in particular is successful off the back of the taxpayer; are you advocating against government incentives for electric vehicles?

nullc 5y ago
We're forced to share the road with them. Because Teslas are glass cannons with easily damaged body panels and a closed repair network that has extraordinary prices, their presence on the roads has a real impact on all of us. Who knows what costs we'll be exposed to as their somewhat suicidal 'self driving' functionality becomes exposed to more of the buysers they sold it to on the back of improbable promises (such as "your car will eventually pay for itself by acting as an antonymous taxi").

slibhb 5y ago

I'm not an Ayn Rand disciple. But she had a point about certain people and how they view the world. Musk is rich on paper but the stocks are massively overvalued for various reasons. The idea that "billionaires are evil people who exploit innocent laborers" is false and it comes from a place of resentment.

cguess 5y ago
She did talk about how certain people view the world. She also advocated for that world view, and then died on welfare (the irony). And yes, billionaires absolutely build their wealth on the backs of others. There's simply no way to become a billionaire without exploiting a system and taking advantage of others in some way. It may be legal, but legality took a sharp turn away from morality a long long time ago.
- slibhb 5y ago
  I don't agree with Ayn Rand that welfare is bad. I also don't agree that charity is bad. I agree with her that some very smart people are completely consumed by resentment. > And yes, billionaires absolutely build their wealth on the backs of others. There's simply no way to become a billionaire without exploiting a system and taking advantage of others in some way. It may be legal, but legality took a sharp turn away from morality a long long time ago. You're just resentful of people who have accomplished more than you. What's stopping Bob, who makes less money than you toiling in a factory, from saying the exactly same thing about you? You're an exploiter, it's how you earn a living without getting your hands dirty.

beepbooptheory 5y ago

The everyday work of the normal laborer is more worthy of admiration and support than anything that happens in a board room, on the golf course, or in whatever internal email chain that decides these things. It's not amazing to be an investor and make big decisions that shape lives and the flow of money, that is simply what you can do when you are in that position. The worker who can live within the turmoil the former creates, and still find love and happiness, not to mention keep the lights on and take out the trash, are the true heroes of humanity.

sillysaurusx 5y ago
Unless they refuse to get vaccinated. It may seem like an off-topic point, but I recently had a big wake-up call with the kinds of people you mention. The flip side of your flowery description is that they're often short-sighted, vicious people who can get worked up into a frenzy with little warning, or reason. Sometimes they want to for no reason. You're trying to describe the nobility of people with no skills (valued by society). But imagine if the entire world were populated by them. Would you really want to live in it? And if not, can they be called heroes of humanity?
- beepbooptheory 5y ago
  Beyond a few pretty questionable assumptions at work here (that the labor market is an effective decider of what skills are valuable to society full stop; that someone's labor dictates what skills they have; that what someone has to offer the labor market could correlate at all to something like character), I would simply reflect on whatever thought process has brought you to the situation where someone simply says, in so many words, that "the meek shall inherit the earth", and your first impulse is to say "no, in fact, they are shortsighted and viscious people who get whipped into frenzies for often no reason". I dont even think Rand would follow you there; I can't really think of any corollary to that sentiment other than fascist rhetoric. To know nothing of a group of people but how much they make at work, and to go that far in painting a picture of them... Its shocking! Haha I'm sure you mean well, and are genuinely reflecting, but this is not a good look at all to anybody but the most rightwing people. What amounts Idiocracy lore is not a suitable or humane thing to ground political beliefs on.