6 ms·

It feels like Apple should have done/should do an official in-house docking system instead of outsourcing such a critical component in the overall system/value

It feels like Apple should have done/should do an official in-house docking system instead of outsourcing such a critical component in the overall system/value proposition.

smoldesu 5y ago
I actually agree. Normally I'm against proprietary ports, but vendors that have done this in the past have traditionally killed a lot of birds with one stone. Both Dell and Lenovo's docking solutions are fantastic, and don't require expensive hardware to manufacture docks. As a result, you can get the full IO of your computer extended to a dock with 10+ ports for less than $30. Pretty great solution IMO.
- zamadatix 5y ago
  The downside is all of the hardware ends up inside the laptop where you still pay for it and now can't upgrade it separately or reuse it with another laptop. Not that I ever remember Dell/Lenovo docks being $30 new anyways.
  - somethoughts 5y ago
    I remember I did receive a Dell dock complete with a spring mounted adapter for the actual laptop. I wasn't thinking that though - I was thinking something like the ones reviewed in the article but perhaps with a Apple Thunderbolt connector to prevent them from having to support Windows PC users.
    - zamadatix 5y ago
      You can get e.g. a Dell PR02X (traditional docking station/port replicator) for $30 or less the last couple of years now that they aren't compatible with new models but they used to also be upwards of $100 new before that ~5 years ago. There was a similar price decrease story after the prior generation of proprietary dock was deprecated as well and you'd see the same thing if the current type-C USB/Thunderbolt docks were replaced with a new physical interface. Has nothing to do with the hardware design and everything to do with excess inventory of an old product. There is no such thing as "Apple Thunderbolt" just "Thunderbolt". It was developed by Intel, Apple was involved early in development with Intel and first to market >10 years ago but that's it. Most Windows laptops come with Thunderbolt and both Dell/Lenovo offer Thunderbolt Docks just as much as USB-C docks. Being Thunderbolt or not has no impact on whether or not the dock will support Windows/Linux vs macOS.
  - tinus_hn 5y ago
    And if one of the tiny wires breaks and causes a short, not only can you cause a fire but you also damage the connector in the laptop which can only be fixed by replacing the motherboard, which is more expensive than the laptop itself and not covered by warranty.
  - smoldesu 5y ago
    Yeah, I don't think I'd ever call it a perfect solution. FWIW though, I think most of the implementations I've seen leverage the preexisting I/O controllers on the laptop itself, which means the only added cost is whatever the proprietary docking connector costs on the BOM.
- tossoutaccimade 5y ago
  Totally agree. I keep a dock for my thinkpad t420 hooked up to 2 27" 1440p iMacs in target display mode. Pop it in, the imacs get my laptop's workspaces. I keep a dell laptop docked to my tv as a streaming box. Both of these setups give me no trouble, and all of these things were being thrown out by my university.
moduspol 5y ago
They do--they just include the monitor as part of it. That seems to have been the vision since at least 2011 [1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Thunderbolt_Display https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Thunderbolt_Display
- btgeekboy 5y ago
  That was discontinued over 6 years ago. In 2022, it isn't a great monitor, either.
  - moduspol 5y ago
    They do have a replacement consumer monitor in 2022 [1], but in the meantime, they were selling and supporting the LG UltraFine 5K [2]. I haven't bought the new studio display, but the Thunderbolt Display was great and the LG UltraFine 5K is, too. Used both as daily drivers (and docking stations) for years. I only haven't bought the new one because that LG one is still going strong. Regardless: my point is that this certainly seems to be "the vision." You don't need a docking station because your monitor functions as one. If I had to guess, they probably think normal people don't want to buy a docking station and then deal with a series of poorly-integrated peripherals. [1] https://www.apple.com/shop/buy-mac/apple-studio-display/standard-glass-tilt-adjustable-stand https://www.apple.com/shop/buy-mac/apple-studio-display/stan... [2] https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT210205 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT210205
bayindirh 5y ago
Actually they have a simple USB-C break-out adapter which has a USB-A port, an HDMI port and power-in. It works extremely well. You can connect it to a USB3.0 hub to get a lot of ports. I leave it at my office desk for day to day operation. If you want a proper docking station, a higher end Dell monitor [0] will do with USB-C, display daisy chain and USB-PD. It'll enable single cable connectivity to anything you care, sans ethernet, which can be attached to the monitor's USB hub, if you really need. For my mobility needs, I use a Kingston Nucleum [1] since I don't care about Ethernet, but about fast card readers. It also supports 60W USB-PD, which is ample for a MacBook Air M1. That thing is really high quality. [0]: https://www.dell.com/en-us/work/shop/dell-ultrasharp-27-4k-usb-c-monitor-u2720q/apd/210-avjv/monitors-monitor-accessories https://www.dell.com/en-us/work/shop/dell-ultrasharp-27-4k-u... [1]: https://www.kingston.com/en/memory-card-readers/nucleum-usb-type-c-hub https://www.kingston.com/en/memory-card-readers/nucleum-usb-...
- kevin_thibedeau 5y ago
  There's nothing like having to do Johnny Mnemonic cosplay because a manufacturer won't let their product be sullied with holes.
  - bayindirh 5y ago
    I don't think a MacBook Air M1 has a lot places to add ports [0]. The latest generation of MacBook Pros bring a lot of the ports back [1], so that point doesn't hold anymore. Also, of all the MacBook Air users I know, I'm the heaviest user in terms of processor load, and given that it's the company computer, it wouldn't be my first choice for a personal MacBook (in fact, I have a personal MacBook Pro). At the end of the day, having a featherweight computer which can do all my work related tasks and some heavier stuff and doesn't needs its charger and ports most of the time is really a spoiling thing. However, for heavy development and photographic work, nothing beats on board ports and a bigger screen. [0]: https://www.apple.com/v/macbook-air/n/images/specs/mba_charging__es0ane5j84eq_large_2x.jpg https://www.apple.com/v/macbook-air/n/images/specs/mba_charg... [1]: https://images.macrumors.com/t/MsiVifkTbdhdqh2z2tvJZXIuH80=/1600x1200/smart/article-new/2021/10/2021-macbook-pro-ports.jpg https://images.macrumors.com/t/MsiVifkTbdhdqh2z2tvJZXIuH80=/...
rhinoceraptor 5y ago
Technically they have one, it's built into the displays. Obviously it's not a great solution if you want to use your existing monitors.

It feels like Apple should have done/should do an official in-house docking system instead of outsourcing such a critical component in the overall system/value proposition.

smoldesu 5y ago

I actually agree. Normally I'm against proprietary ports, but vendors that have done this in the past have traditionally killed a lot of birds with one stone. Both Dell and Lenovo's docking solutions are fantastic, and don't require expensive hardware to manufacture docks. As a result, you can get the full IO of your computer extended to a dock with 10+ ports for less than $30. Pretty great solution IMO.

zamadatix 5y ago
The downside is all of the hardware ends up inside the laptop where you still pay for it and now can't upgrade it separately or reuse it with another laptop. Not that I ever remember Dell/Lenovo docks being $30 new anyways.
- somethoughts 5y ago
  I remember I did receive a Dell dock complete with a spring mounted adapter for the actual laptop. I wasn't thinking that though - I was thinking something like the ones reviewed in the article but perhaps with a Apple Thunderbolt connector to prevent them from having to support Windows PC users.
  - zamadatix 5y ago
    You can get e.g. a Dell PR02X (traditional docking station/port replicator) for $30 or less the last couple of years now that they aren't compatible with new models but they used to also be upwards of $100 new before that ~5 years ago. There was a similar price decrease story after the prior generation of proprietary dock was deprecated as well and you'd see the same thing if the current type-C USB/Thunderbolt docks were replaced with a new physical interface. Has nothing to do with the hardware design and everything to do with excess inventory of an old product. There is no such thing as "Apple Thunderbolt" just "Thunderbolt". It was developed by Intel, Apple was involved early in development with Intel and first to market >10 years ago but that's it. Most Windows laptops come with Thunderbolt and both Dell/Lenovo offer Thunderbolt Docks just as much as USB-C docks. Being Thunderbolt or not has no impact on whether or not the dock will support Windows/Linux vs macOS.
- tinus_hn 5y ago
  And if one of the tiny wires breaks and causes a short, not only can you cause a fire but you also damage the connector in the laptop which can only be fixed by replacing the motherboard, which is more expensive than the laptop itself and not covered by warranty.
- smoldesu 5y ago
  Yeah, I don't think I'd ever call it a perfect solution. FWIW though, I think most of the implementations I've seen leverage the preexisting I/O controllers on the laptop itself, which means the only added cost is whatever the proprietary docking connector costs on the BOM.
tossoutaccimade 5y ago
Totally agree. I keep a dock for my thinkpad t420 hooked up to 2 27" 1440p iMacs in target display mode. Pop it in, the imacs get my laptop's workspaces. I keep a dell laptop docked to my tv as a streaming box. Both of these setups give me no trouble, and all of these things were being thrown out by my university.

moduspol 5y ago

They do--they just include the monitor as part of it. That seems to have been the vision since at least 2011 [1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Thunderbolt_Display https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Thunderbolt_Display

btgeekboy 5y ago
That was discontinued over 6 years ago. In 2022, it isn't a great monitor, either.
- moduspol 5y ago
  They do have a replacement consumer monitor in 2022 [1], but in the meantime, they were selling and supporting the LG UltraFine 5K [2]. I haven't bought the new studio display, but the Thunderbolt Display was great and the LG UltraFine 5K is, too. Used both as daily drivers (and docking stations) for years. I only haven't bought the new one because that LG one is still going strong. Regardless: my point is that this certainly seems to be "the vision." You don't need a docking station because your monitor functions as one. If I had to guess, they probably think normal people don't want to buy a docking station and then deal with a series of poorly-integrated peripherals. [1] https://www.apple.com/shop/buy-mac/apple-studio-display/standard-glass-tilt-adjustable-stand https://www.apple.com/shop/buy-mac/apple-studio-display/stan... [2] https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT210205 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT210205

bayindirh 5y ago

Actually they have a simple USB-C break-out adapter which has a USB-A port, an HDMI port and power-in. It works extremely well. You can connect it to a USB3.0 hub to get a lot of ports. I leave it at my office desk for day to day operation. If you want a proper docking station, a higher end Dell monitor [0] will do with USB-C, display daisy chain and USB-PD. It'll enable single cable connectivity to anything you care, sans ethernet, which can be attached to the monitor's USB hub, if you really need. For my mobility needs, I use a Kingston Nucleum [1] since I don't care about Ethernet, but about fast card readers. It also supports 60W USB-PD, which is ample for a MacBook Air M1. That thing is really high quality. [0]: https://www.dell.com/en-us/work/shop/dell-ultrasharp-27-4k-usb-c-monitor-u2720q/apd/210-avjv/monitors-monitor-accessories https://www.dell.com/en-us/work/shop/dell-ultrasharp-27-4k-u... [1]: https://www.kingston.com/en/memory-card-readers/nucleum-usb-type-c-hub https://www.kingston.com/en/memory-card-readers/nucleum-usb-...

kevin_thibedeau 5y ago
There's nothing like having to do Johnny Mnemonic cosplay because a manufacturer won't let their product be sullied with holes.
- bayindirh 5y ago
  I don't think a MacBook Air M1 has a lot places to add ports [0]. The latest generation of MacBook Pros bring a lot of the ports back [1], so that point doesn't hold anymore. Also, of all the MacBook Air users I know, I'm the heaviest user in terms of processor load, and given that it's the company computer, it wouldn't be my first choice for a personal MacBook (in fact, I have a personal MacBook Pro). At the end of the day, having a featherweight computer which can do all my work related tasks and some heavier stuff and doesn't needs its charger and ports most of the time is really a spoiling thing. However, for heavy development and photographic work, nothing beats on board ports and a bigger screen. [0]: https://www.apple.com/v/macbook-air/n/images/specs/mba_charging__es0ane5j84eq_large_2x.jpg https://www.apple.com/v/macbook-air/n/images/specs/mba_charg... [1]: https://images.macrumors.com/t/MsiVifkTbdhdqh2z2tvJZXIuH80=/1600x1200/smart/article-new/2021/10/2021-macbook-pro-ports.jpg https://images.macrumors.com/t/MsiVifkTbdhdqh2z2tvJZXIuH80=/...

rhinoceraptor 5y ago

Technically they have one, it's built into the displays. Obviously it's not a great solution if you want to use your existing monitors.