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>It's going to hurt even more to find out they really don't enjoy your company as much as you thought they did This is the crux of the issue. There are many pe

>It's going to hurt even more to find out they really don't enjoy your company as much as you thought they did This is the crux of the issue. There are many people who often feel like cancelling on plans, but it is absolutely not because they don't enjoy their friends' company. It might be because they have a mood disorder, or chronic fatigue, or social anxiety, etc etc. The whole reason someone might want an app that lets you cancel on plans, but only if the other person also wants to cancel, is because it's almost impossible to express this feeling to someone without that person drawing the conclusion, to some degree, that you enjoy their company less than they thought. If you genuinely don't enjoy spending time with someone, that's a much easier problem to solve.

jonahx 5y ago
>is because it's almost impossible to express this feeling to someone without that person drawing the conclusion, to some degree, that you enjoy their company less than they thought. Not only is it not "almost impossible" -- it's easy. Especially if you have a reputation for being honest. "Listen, I am feeling like shit right now, and won't have fun if we go out. It's got nothing to do with you. Can we reschedule?"
- librish 5y ago
  The problem is that this is what people say even when it does have something to do with you.
  - jonahx 5y ago
    I mean, in the same sense that it's "a problem" when a con man gives the same pitch as a trustworthy salesman. The solution isn't for the trustworthy to stop honestly describing their products. It's to gain a reputation for honesty. Also, you'll the know the truth from the context of your overall relationship, or, if that is thin, when they do actually reschedule.
    - librish 5y ago
      Yes but empirically the chance of someone rescheduling is low.
  - mgfist 5y ago
    So? It's not your responsibility for someone else's insecurity - and in fact, if you stop to assume that they think this way, you'll find that they 9/10 times do not.
    - librish 5y ago
      I'm not sure how responsibility plays in. Being bluntly honest lowers your chance of making friends, in my experience.
  - nkrisc 5y ago
    You can't control what other people think about you. Better to just tell the truth instead of trying to shape their opinion of you.
- mitchdoogle 5y ago
  By the author's metric, I think this statement would be "Active" if it were an honest statement, i.e. you're actually sick, but it would be "Avoidant" if it is deceptive
em-bee 5y ago
if you cancel without telling me why then i am even more likely to draw the (wrong) conclusion. and if you, and if i wanted to cancel too, then i am still going to wonder why you wanted to cancel. the only way to avoid misinterpretation is to state the reason outright.
- Dylan16807 5y ago
  Giving a reason could be part of the process.
bumby 5y ago
>The whole reason someone might want an app that lets you cancel on plans I know this is HN where we are probably all biased towards creating software solutions, but do you really think software is the right lever to this problem? The root cause is that people don't feel psychologically safe enough to voice their wish to cancel. I don't know that an app really helps that, it just provides an escape hatch. I'd much rather a person say to me, "Look, it's nothing about you, but I struggle with social anxiety and it's getting the best of me right now and need to cancel." Not only would that give me greater compassion for what they're going through, it would also help tailor future outings to alleviate that. Just having a "cancel matching" app won't do anything to foster that kind of growth. To me this feels like one of those distinctions between "can" and "should" in tech.
- Dylan16807 5y ago
  > I know this is HN where we are probably all biased towards creating software solutions, but do you really think software is the right lever to this problem? I'm not sure how you got that impression from that sentence, especially because the word "want" was emphasized.
  - bumby 5y ago
    I'm sorry, I'm not following. I'm assuming someone would want something because they feel like it's a solution to their problem. In this case, I'm saying I think software is the wrong "solution" because it just treats the symptom (get me out of this obligation) and not the underlying cause (provide psychological trust). Did you interpret the sentence differently?
    - Dylan16807 5y ago
      They want the supposed benefit. That doesn't mean they think the mechanism is correct, or even that any mechanism could actually do it in a non-abstract way.
      - bumby 5y ago
alar44 5y ago
> It might be because they have a mood disorder, or chronic fatigue, or social anxiety, etc etc. This is a babies excuse. If you're an adult, you should be actively dealing with this. However, it has become fashionable to wear a psychological condition on your sleeve. People who use this as an excuse have likely never been diagnosed and probably aren't even trying to deal with it. Either way, those are their battles, and if it means they are flaky, we just won't be friends. I've done the hard work to get myself out of a social anxiety disorder and can easily tell who actually has similar issues and those who are just lazy flakes.
steinuil 5y ago
I'm depressive and have social anxiety and I still found that forcing myself to attend these social situations instead of bailing and staying home for "self-care" almost always improved my mood and made me feel happy that I went at the end. If you have a more serious medical condition that makes you physically unable to go anywhere that's another matter, but I'm guessing lots of people (just as I did) use less serious mood disorders as excuses to, as the OP put it, be a baby.

jonahx 5y ago

>is because it's almost impossible to express this feeling to someone without that person drawing the conclusion, to some degree, that you enjoy their company less than they thought. Not only is it not "almost impossible" -- it's easy. Especially if you have a reputation for being honest. "Listen, I am feeling like shit right now, and won't have fun if we go out. It's got nothing to do with you. Can we reschedule?"

librish 5y ago
The problem is that this is what people say even when it does have something to do with you.
- jonahx 5y ago
  I mean, in the same sense that it's "a problem" when a con man gives the same pitch as a trustworthy salesman. The solution isn't for the trustworthy to stop honestly describing their products. It's to gain a reputation for honesty. Also, you'll the know the truth from the context of your overall relationship, or, if that is thin, when they do actually reschedule.
  - librish 5y ago
    Yes but empirically the chance of someone rescheduling is low.
- mgfist 5y ago
  So? It's not your responsibility for someone else's insecurity - and in fact, if you stop to assume that they think this way, you'll find that they 9/10 times do not.
  - librish 5y ago
    I'm not sure how responsibility plays in. Being bluntly honest lowers your chance of making friends, in my experience.
- nkrisc 5y ago
  You can't control what other people think about you. Better to just tell the truth instead of trying to shape their opinion of you.
mitchdoogle 5y ago
By the author's metric, I think this statement would be "Active" if it were an honest statement, i.e. you're actually sick, but it would be "Avoidant" if it is deceptive

em-bee 5y ago

if you cancel without telling me why then i am even more likely to draw the (wrong) conclusion. and if you, and if i wanted to cancel too, then i am still going to wonder why you wanted to cancel. the only way to avoid misinterpretation is to state the reason outright.

Dylan16807 5y ago
Giving a reason could be part of the process.

bumby 5y ago

>The whole reason someone might want an app that lets you cancel on plans I know this is HN where we are probably all biased towards creating software solutions, but do you really think software is the right lever to this problem? The root cause is that people don't feel psychologically safe enough to voice their wish to cancel. I don't know that an app really helps that, it just provides an escape hatch. I'd much rather a person say to me, "Look, it's nothing about you, but I struggle with social anxiety and it's getting the best of me right now and need to cancel." Not only would that give me greater compassion for what they're going through, it would also help tailor future outings to alleviate that. Just having a "cancel matching" app won't do anything to foster that kind of growth. To me this feels like one of those distinctions between "can" and "should" in tech.

Dylan16807 5y ago
> I know this is HN where we are probably all biased towards creating software solutions, but do you really think software is the right lever to this problem? I'm not sure how you got that impression from that sentence, especially because the word "want" was emphasized.
- bumby 5y ago
  I'm sorry, I'm not following. I'm assuming someone would want something because they feel like it's a solution to their problem. In this case, I'm saying I think software is the wrong "solution" because it just treats the symptom (get me out of this obligation) and not the underlying cause (provide psychological trust). Did you interpret the sentence differently?
  - Dylan16807 5y ago
    They want the supposed benefit. That doesn't mean they think the mechanism is correct, or even that any mechanism could actually do it in a non-abstract way.
    - bumby 5y ago

alar44 5y ago

> It might be because they have a mood disorder, or chronic fatigue, or social anxiety, etc etc. This is a babies excuse. If you're an adult, you should be actively dealing with this. However, it has become fashionable to wear a psychological condition on your sleeve. People who use this as an excuse have likely never been diagnosed and probably aren't even trying to deal with it. Either way, those are their battles, and if it means they are flaky, we just won't be friends. I've done the hard work to get myself out of a social anxiety disorder and can easily tell who actually has similar issues and those who are just lazy flakes.

steinuil 5y ago

I'm depressive and have social anxiety and I still found that forcing myself to attend these social situations instead of bailing and staying home for "self-care" almost always improved my mood and made me feel happy that I went at the end. If you have a more serious medical condition that makes you physically unable to go anywhere that's another matter, but I'm guessing lots of people (just as I did) use less serious mood disorders as excuses to, as the OP put it, be a baby.