6 ms·

I'd argue it's a positive in that its the only route out currently for people born in certain zip codes, such that with 2 years in active duty, your whole life

I'd argue it's a positive in that its the only route out currently for people born in certain zip codes, such that with 2 years in active duty, your whole life trajectory can change (free college, "honorable military service" stamp on your resume, so on - I'll spare the recruiting pitch). The local high schools aren't doing it, the government isn't doing it, but the military will. But... The tragedy is that this is the only route available for people born in certain zipcodes. The dynamic of needing to volunteer to discernibly bump up the odds of your own gruesome death in order to get the only decent fair deal on succeeding in the civilian world is everything that is wrong with the US at the moment.

micromacrofoot 5y ago
How can you call something a positive and then immediately call it a tragedy? that's not a positive at all!
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- bitxbitxbitcoin 5y ago
  It is positive on a micro level (that the opportunity exists) but a tragedy on the macro level (that that is the only opportunity that exists).
- dogman144 5y ago
  I will never view military service as a bad thing in totality. Locally evaluated, it's a good option. Putting aside the more heady concepts of public service and sacrifice, it is one of the last remaining conduits to change your stars and "make a man/woman/adult out of you," *although it is certainly not without faults and has certainly caused horrible experiences for people who served*. It is an imperfect organization that does its core mission well (fight and win wars), and it does its best beyond that. I know this can spark a lot of debate and "what about X" discussions, and I won't participate in those if they show up so I apologize in advance. The tragedy is that it's the only option to change one's stars for a lot of folks and this dynamic is present across the entire country - poor rural south, poor urban, poor rust belt. High schools and governments, local or otherwise, are failing these kids, and the military is the only semi-competent entity available to help. That's not a dynamic we want.
  - ethbr0 5y ago
    As the son of a son of a father who wouldn't have gone to college without WWII-era tuition assistance, can confirm it changes entire family trajectories. My grandfather had the work ethic and intelligence in him, subsequently proven, but was born dirt poor with a snowball's chance in hell he could have afforded college without the GI Bill. The military is an option which largely accepts you if you say "Yes" and can pass a basic intelligence test. Those are the only requirements. Not your family name. Not your family wealth. Not (now) your race or gender or sexual orientation. And in trade for that, they open up benefits that change lives. It certainly shouldn't be the only option, but that it is an option is better than not existing.
    - briffle 5y ago
      Same thing here. My grandfather was excited when his dad found some pallets 'that fell off the back of a truck' so they could have a floor for the tent they lived in outside Portland, and not see the rats. (funny when people in PDX complain about the homeless problem, my grandpa was in those cities in the 30's and 40s) GI bill put him into college, and set him up with an eductation that setup my mom and her 6 siblings with a 'normal' middle class life. Not too shabby for a man that literally grew up dirt poor.
      - dogman144 5y ago
        I knew a Soldier with a 32 ACT (yes, I double checked as that's a great score) from East St Louis. Guidance counselors and everything else failed them, so they joined the mil. How that kid (making an adult's decision by joining) wasn't scooped up by basically anyone other than their local recruiter blew my mind. If you spend some time around the military jobs that require smarts, these stories are very common. The non-high test score jobs tend to be staffed by very solid and smart people who just didn't have many other options at the time. Soldiers from enlisted to General can and often are idiots and by glorifying them one risks the same risk as glorifying a professional athlete or any other symbol, but in aggregate the above story is common.
        5y ago
- lkbm 5y ago
  Do you think homeless shelters and food stamps are a positive? It's clearly a tragedy that we need them, but I'd say they are very clearly a positive.
  - micromacrofoot 5y ago
    I don't think gambling with your life is a requirement to get on food stamps though?

micromacrofoot 5y ago

How can you call something a positive and then immediately call it a tragedy? that's not a positive at all!

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
bitxbitxbitcoin 5y ago
It is positive on a micro level (that the opportunity exists) but a tragedy on the macro level (that that is the only opportunity that exists).
dogman144 5y ago
I will never view military service as a bad thing in totality. Locally evaluated, it's a good option. Putting aside the more heady concepts of public service and sacrifice, it is one of the last remaining conduits to change your stars and "make a man/woman/adult out of you," *although it is certainly not without faults and has certainly caused horrible experiences for people who served*. It is an imperfect organization that does its core mission well (fight and win wars), and it does its best beyond that. I know this can spark a lot of debate and "what about X" discussions, and I won't participate in those if they show up so I apologize in advance. The tragedy is that it's the only option to change one's stars for a lot of folks and this dynamic is present across the entire country - poor rural south, poor urban, poor rust belt. High schools and governments, local or otherwise, are failing these kids, and the military is the only semi-competent entity available to help. That's not a dynamic we want.
- ethbr0 5y ago
  As the son of a son of a father who wouldn't have gone to college without WWII-era tuition assistance, can confirm it changes entire family trajectories. My grandfather had the work ethic and intelligence in him, subsequently proven, but was born dirt poor with a snowball's chance in hell he could have afforded college without the GI Bill. The military is an option which largely accepts you if you say "Yes" and can pass a basic intelligence test. Those are the only requirements. Not your family name. Not your family wealth. Not (now) your race or gender or sexual orientation. And in trade for that, they open up benefits that change lives. It certainly shouldn't be the only option, but that it is an option is better than not existing.
  - briffle 5y ago
    Same thing here. My grandfather was excited when his dad found some pallets 'that fell off the back of a truck' so they could have a floor for the tent they lived in outside Portland, and not see the rats. (funny when people in PDX complain about the homeless problem, my grandpa was in those cities in the 30's and 40s) GI bill put him into college, and set him up with an eductation that setup my mom and her 6 siblings with a 'normal' middle class life. Not too shabby for a man that literally grew up dirt poor.
    - dogman144 5y ago
      I knew a Soldier with a 32 ACT (yes, I double checked as that's a great score) from East St Louis. Guidance counselors and everything else failed them, so they joined the mil. How that kid (making an adult's decision by joining) wasn't scooped up by basically anyone other than their local recruiter blew my mind. If you spend some time around the military jobs that require smarts, these stories are very common. The non-high test score jobs tend to be staffed by very solid and smart people who just didn't have many other options at the time. Soldiers from enlisted to General can and often are idiots and by glorifying them one risks the same risk as glorifying a professional athlete or any other symbol, but in aggregate the above story is common.
      - 5y ago
lkbm 5y ago
Do you think homeless shelters and food stamps are a positive? It's clearly a tragedy that we need them, but I'd say they are very clearly a positive.
- micromacrofoot 5y ago
  I don't think gambling with your life is a requirement to get on food stamps though?