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Reminds me of when the entire Swiss train network shut down in 2005[0] This was, however, not due to a computer glitch, but problems in SBB's electrical grid,

Reminds me of when the entire Swiss train network shut down in 2005[0] This was, however, not due to a computer glitch, but problems in SBB's electrical grid, which lead to overload of some of the lines and then to a complete shutdown of the entire grid. Warnings were displayed on control consoles, but were drowned in 1000s of other meaningless warnings (there's a lesson for an UI designer here). I was in the ICE from Basel to Zurich at the time and after fuming for a few minutes I figured: "What can you do?" and moved to the bar wagon. There we had something of an impromptu party until there was no more power for the cash register and they stopped sales. In the end it was a (relatively) funny adventure for most and a huge embarrassment for SBB. I don't think they like to be reminded of that faithful day. [0] https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/swiss-train-network-shuts-down/4578052 https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/swiss-train-network-shuts-down/...

Scoundreller 5y ago
> There we had something of an impromptu party until there was no more power for the cash register and they stopped sales. Funny how the entire system has ground to a halt and the bartender is still worried that their cash register receipts and inventory won’t reconcile and shuts that part down too.
- Tabular-Iceberg 5y ago
  I’m puzzled by the lack of resilience in retail sales. I thought “always be closing” was supposed to apply to all types of sales. A receipt pad and a credit card imprinter under the counter would be a very cheap backup. It would be slow, but at least they would be closing. It can even be considered a national security issue in the case of food, medicines and other vital services.
  - Freak_NL 5y ago
    This is Europe. Credit card imprinters are rare if they were ever used at all. I've never seen one. The most resilient back up (especially in the face of national crises) is cash of course, but a growing group of people have stopped carrying any cash at all, and a lot of people in power are doing their best to make sure a cashless future is nearer each day. I don't mind paying with a debit card; I just want to have a backup in place in an increasingly interconnected world where a glitch can take out any nationwide system.
    - sofixa 5y ago
      Even for a cash payment the register still needs to work for the payment to be... well, registered as a sale. You need to get a receipt with tax paid, and all that.
      - Tabular-Iceberg 5y ago
        That's easily done with a writing pad with carbon paper between each sheet. You write the items, prices and tax, rip off one sheet to give to the customer and another sheet for the books. I checked, these seem to still be sold at office supply places, so there is no excuse.
        tsimionescu 5y ago
        Not sure about the Netherlands, but that's illegal in some parts. There are laws that sales MUST be recorded electronically.
        Tabular-Iceberg 5y ago
        Cash invoices will probably still work in most jurisdictions, to be recorded electronically after the fact. It's even more work than a handwritten receipt since the customer would have to be identified, not just what is being sold and for how much, so I wouldn't fault a merchant for taking out a service surcharge for it.
    - tazjin 5y ago
      Most credit or debit cards support offline transactions, so a shop can keep a battery powered terminal that reconciles when it comes online. Imprinters don't exist in Europe to my knowledge - the first time I saw one was on a visit to NYC a few years ago and I thought they were pranking me.
      - unnah 5y ago
        There are a lot of different cultural practices in Europe, and unification is a slow process. I for one have seen many imprinters in use in Europe, although it has been years since I last saw one. An online terminal used to be significantly more expensive than an imprinter, so small shops would prefer the imprinter, especially in rural locations with bad connectivity.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - jaclaz 5y ago
    I have some experience related to cash/registers/POS. Card imprinters did exist in Europe (Italy) just fine, but they are not used since (at least) thirty years. Most cards that are presented to the cash now have no embossed numbers (most people have the national payment circuit called Bancomat/Pagobancomat, sometimes coupled - on the same not-embossed card - with a Visa or Mastercard debit). So in 99% of cases there is no way to "extract" money from cards without using the card reader and if electricity or landline/internet connection are down, it is a problem, though there are a number of battery powered and GSM/cellular connected POS/terminals that may give a few hours of autonomy. Since several years sales to the public MUST be recorded on an electronic cash register[1], there is something like a "special emergency exception" where you can annotate manually on a paper registry sales, but as often happens the exact procedure is not largely known and I believe most people would not risk a (hefty) fine should they do any mistake in these cases and prefer to close the shop. [1] which is BTW connected via internet to the Agenzia delle Entrate, the governement agency that deals with taxes, and data from the cash register is transmitted daily to them automatically, though there is a few days time tolerance in case of connection issues
    - ajb 5y ago
      Hmm, the last time I heard of one being used in the UK I can track to a date in 2002. My uncle bought a commuter from Dan Computers the day they went bust. The credit readers stopped working, because the credit company pulled access; but the retail staff did not realise this, so they broke out the imprint machines and kept going. Presumably the receiver didn't notice the flimsies, because they never either finally got the payment processed through the banks, nor tried to collect the payment any other way. Originally they were the main means of taking card payments in the UK, though.
    - avar 5y ago
      > So in 99% of cases there is no way to "extract" money from cards without [...] The card has the customer's IBAN, which you can use along with their ID and have them sign a contract to allow you to deduct the purchase via direct debit, the system is routinely used for point of sale, but is mostly known for regular recurring billing. It's too much of a hassle and deviation from standard business practices for shops to use it in practice, so they just wait until the network is up. But it's not because there's "no way", embossed cards were a hassle too. We've just gotten used to less manual paperwork.
Robin_Message 5y ago
Aside: in case that's an eggcorn and not a typo, the day would be "fateful", as in, something momentous happened, rather than "faithful", showing loyalty.
- CaptainZapp 5y ago
  Thanks! Not a native English speaker. So it's easy for me to confuse the terms. You're right, of course.

Scoundreller 5y ago

> There we had something of an impromptu party until there was no more power for the cash register and they stopped sales. Funny how the entire system has ground to a halt and the bartender is still worried that their cash register receipts and inventory won’t reconcile and shuts that part down too.

Tabular-Iceberg 5y ago
I’m puzzled by the lack of resilience in retail sales. I thought “always be closing” was supposed to apply to all types of sales. A receipt pad and a credit card imprinter under the counter would be a very cheap backup. It would be slow, but at least they would be closing. It can even be considered a national security issue in the case of food, medicines and other vital services.
- Freak_NL 5y ago
  This is Europe. Credit card imprinters are rare if they were ever used at all. I've never seen one. The most resilient back up (especially in the face of national crises) is cash of course, but a growing group of people have stopped carrying any cash at all, and a lot of people in power are doing their best to make sure a cashless future is nearer each day. I don't mind paying with a debit card; I just want to have a backup in place in an increasingly interconnected world where a glitch can take out any nationwide system.
  - sofixa 5y ago
    Even for a cash payment the register still needs to work for the payment to be... well, registered as a sale. You need to get a receipt with tax paid, and all that.
    - Tabular-Iceberg 5y ago
      That's easily done with a writing pad with carbon paper between each sheet. You write the items, prices and tax, rip off one sheet to give to the customer and another sheet for the books. I checked, these seem to still be sold at office supply places, so there is no excuse.
      - tsimionescu 5y ago
        Not sure about the Netherlands, but that's illegal in some parts. There are laws that sales MUST be recorded electronically.
        Tabular-Iceberg 5y ago
        Cash invoices will probably still work in most jurisdictions, to be recorded electronically after the fact. It's even more work than a handwritten receipt since the customer would have to be identified, not just what is being sold and for how much, so I wouldn't fault a merchant for taking out a service surcharge for it.
  - tazjin 5y ago
    Most credit or debit cards support offline transactions, so a shop can keep a battery powered terminal that reconciles when it comes online. Imprinters don't exist in Europe to my knowledge - the first time I saw one was on a visit to NYC a few years ago and I thought they were pranking me.
    - unnah 5y ago
      There are a lot of different cultural practices in Europe, and unification is a slow process. I for one have seen many imprinters in use in Europe, although it has been years since I last saw one. An online terminal used to be significantly more expensive than an imprinter, so small shops would prefer the imprinter, especially in rural locations with bad connectivity.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- jaclaz 5y ago
  I have some experience related to cash/registers/POS. Card imprinters did exist in Europe (Italy) just fine, but they are not used since (at least) thirty years. Most cards that are presented to the cash now have no embossed numbers (most people have the national payment circuit called Bancomat/Pagobancomat, sometimes coupled - on the same not-embossed card - with a Visa or Mastercard debit). So in 99% of cases there is no way to "extract" money from cards without using the card reader and if electricity or landline/internet connection are down, it is a problem, though there are a number of battery powered and GSM/cellular connected POS/terminals that may give a few hours of autonomy. Since several years sales to the public MUST be recorded on an electronic cash register[1], there is something like a "special emergency exception" where you can annotate manually on a paper registry sales, but as often happens the exact procedure is not largely known and I believe most people would not risk a (hefty) fine should they do any mistake in these cases and prefer to close the shop. [1] which is BTW connected via internet to the Agenzia delle Entrate, the governement agency that deals with taxes, and data from the cash register is transmitted daily to them automatically, though there is a few days time tolerance in case of connection issues
  - ajb 5y ago
    Hmm, the last time I heard of one being used in the UK I can track to a date in 2002. My uncle bought a commuter from Dan Computers the day they went bust. The credit readers stopped working, because the credit company pulled access; but the retail staff did not realise this, so they broke out the imprint machines and kept going. Presumably the receiver didn't notice the flimsies, because they never either finally got the payment processed through the banks, nor tried to collect the payment any other way. Originally they were the main means of taking card payments in the UK, though.
  - avar 5y ago
    > So in 99% of cases there is no way to "extract" money from cards without [...] The card has the customer's IBAN, which you can use along with their ID and have them sign a contract to allow you to deduct the purchase via direct debit, the system is routinely used for point of sale, but is mostly known for regular recurring billing. It's too much of a hassle and deviation from standard business practices for shops to use it in practice, so they just wait until the network is up. But it's not because there's "no way", embossed cards were a hassle too. We've just gotten used to less manual paperwork.

Robin_Message 5y ago

Aside: in case that's an eggcorn and not a typo, the day would be "fateful", as in, something momentous happened, rather than "faithful", showing loyalty.

CaptainZapp 5y ago
Thanks! Not a native English speaker. So it's easy for me to confuse the terms. You're right, of course.