4 ms·

What is "the third gender?"

jelliclesfarm 5y ago
Third gender: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_gender https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_gender [..] Third gender is a concept in which individuals are categorized, either by themselves or by society, as neither man nor woman. It is also a social category present in societies that recognize three or more genders. The term third is usually understood to mean "other", though some anthropologists and sociologists have described fourth and fifth genders.[..]
- jelliclesfarm 5y ago
  About my original now flagged/down voted comment that I can’t reply to anymore…I understand that my comment is unpalatable to many. But why can’t we talk about it? It’s like having a door shut instead of saying No. If we can sort out the fundamental inequality and unfair playing ground, then we don’t have to argue ad nauseum ad infinitum about unequal pay. Discuss it. Please. If not with me, amongst yourselves in your safe spaces. For your children and future generations’ sakes. Status Quo is damaging for our futures.
  - shrimp_emoji 5y ago
    I read your post before it was flagged. Have you ever played Civ: Beyond Earth? You're like the Purity faction, who bends all new technology around human whims and limitations (dome cities, big anthropomorphic mechs), solving the issue by segregating genders into silos where their whims and limitations are directly catered to. There's two other factions in the game, Supremacy and Harmony, both of which are transhuman, who transcend their human whims and limitations and exploit and adapt to new technologies on the technologies' novel terms. Purity is comfier and easier, but I think it's a net retardation of growth and development. (It's certainly a regression in terms of liberal egalitarianism.) That future is stagnation. Transcendence is the key. We should all become third gender. (Just kidding. I had nothing else to end with. By the way, your emphasis on "third gender" is pretty unusual to me. Do you mean non-binary people? Or are you using it as some TERFy catch-all for trans people? :p)
    - NoRagrets 5y ago
      Sorry. I don’t know but will look into it. Although I do subscribe to transhumanism philosophy IRL. But there are all flavours of transhumanists. We don’t all agree with each other. Third gender is the term used in India for transgender. They are a very visible group with their third gender identity for centuries now and are part of our societies. They are recognized and it is important to recognize third gender as a category so they don’t feel the need to identify with the biological genders. It is a failure of western society that they haven’t been recognized as non-binary and hence rendered invisible.
      - shrimp_emoji 5y ago
        >Third gender is the term used in India for transgender. Aaaah. That makes sense. The reason that was unusual to me was because, in the West, currently, the prevailing view/jargon is that there's genders, and each gender can be "cis" or "trans". More controversially, there are also non-binary people, who may report no gender, a mix of genders, or a gender other than "man"/"woman". That would be your usage of "third gender".
        jelliclesfarm 5y ago
        Right. For many non-western people, ‘cisgender’ is a made up western term. There has always been non binary and transgender in different cultures around the world. In my culture, there are two genders(not ‘cis’..what does it even mean?) and then there is the third gender. In Hindu puranas, there are many gods we worship who are of two genders, transgender and then there is the father of Ganga(the holiest River of Hinduism) who was born to two women. Here is ..provided with much reservations…a generic search result link: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_themes_in_Hindu_mythology https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_themes_in_Hindu_mytholo... ..I reject all western interpretations and ‘scholarly work’ and have a dim view of western style psychoanalysis of my gods and culture. But it works..as a list.
  - slibhb 5y ago
    I didn't downvote your post but it comes off as deranged. Describing men and women as different species is technically wrong. Women and men who are psychologically healthy don't want to be separated from each other because they like each other. I read Out of Africa recently and this quote stuck with me: > The love of woman and womanliness is a masculine characteristic, and the love of man and manliness a feminine characteristic
    - NoRagrets 5y ago
      I don’t think they should be ‘separated from each other’. What I meant was that they have diff social roles and different strengths/weaknesses. We shouldn’t be competing with those who are unequal to us. However, not competing doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t cooperate. The reason I brought up the example of healthcare is because that’s the most egregious injustice against women. Because of women’s biology and the primary care taking role they adopt(and are good at..), our healthcare needs are different. And yet..women are not taken seriously when they complain of pain and are always under prescribed pain meds. They are not believed if they explain their symptoms. It’s worse in the USA by all accounts Altho I don’t have first hand healthcare experience in other countries(well..other than india and UK). And yet, we are supposed to be peers with men who never go through half the illnesses or conditions we experience. Doesn’t quality of healthcare and health condition and mental well being affect how people work? How are we ‘equal’ to men? And yet…in a workplace you can’t discriminate. The only solution is to create separate economic blocs and healthcare blocs for different genders as we all have different struggles that affect our ability to perform in professional and social spheres. There is no need for seperataion in communal spheres. I think often about healthcare and health insurance that is exclusively for women. How will it change our quality of life? This isn’t to say that men are inferior or that women are superior..nor is it a victim card. Absolutely not! But to not see the differences is a fail. No one wins. So we come to pregnancy, PMS and menopause…all of which have been caricatured that many women feel like they shouldn’t complain. We are reduced and clubbed under the label of ‘ menstruating persons’ and ‘birthing people’. And these are official terms. Slowly our dignity and our identity is being erased. Men don’t care enough for women because it’s not their battle to fight(and that’s ok) because they have no lived experience. I don’t know why the third gender wants to appropriate our identity when they haven’t shared our struggles. Women are the silent majority whose cries aren’t heard anymore but are still judged as equal players and competitors on playing fields that is grossly unfair. P.S: I would have appreciated your words if you didn’t call my comment ‘deranged’. I am less inclined to take someone seriously when their evaluation of my words is needlessly rude. Perhaps choose your words and consider if it comes across as an insult. Thanks. ETA P.S2: In a forum that had an equal or higher split of male: female ratio unlike this testosterone heavy HN, my comment wouldn’t have been flagged. Or called ‘deranged’. There would have been at least some curiosity and a discussion even if there were some who would disagree. ETA PS3: Imagine if it is so in a small forum online…imagine how it would be for women who work in male dominated work places and a world that has more power vested with men. Men make decisions about women’s reproductive rights in Texas. A man in Utah decided that it’s ok for a transgender student to compete with biological girls students in high school sports. Transgender women insult biological women calling them TERFs. Women have lost all agency. This needs to change.

Third gender: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_gender https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_gender [..] Third gender is a concept in which individuals are categorized, either by themselves or by society, as neither man nor woman. It is also a social category present in societies that recognize three or more genders. The term third is usually understood to mean "other", though some anthropologists and sociologists have described fourth and fifth genders.[..]

jelliclesfarm 5y ago
About my original now flagged/down voted comment that I can’t reply to anymore…I understand that my comment is unpalatable to many. But why can’t we talk about it? It’s like having a door shut instead of saying No. If we can sort out the fundamental inequality and unfair playing ground, then we don’t have to argue ad nauseum ad infinitum about unequal pay. Discuss it. Please. If not with me, amongst yourselves in your safe spaces. For your children and future generations’ sakes. Status Quo is damaging for our futures.
- shrimp_emoji 5y ago
  I read your post before it was flagged. Have you ever played Civ: Beyond Earth? You're like the Purity faction, who bends all new technology around human whims and limitations (dome cities, big anthropomorphic mechs), solving the issue by segregating genders into silos where their whims and limitations are directly catered to. There's two other factions in the game, Supremacy and Harmony, both of which are transhuman, who transcend their human whims and limitations and exploit and adapt to new technologies on the technologies' novel terms. Purity is comfier and easier, but I think it's a net retardation of growth and development. (It's certainly a regression in terms of liberal egalitarianism.) That future is stagnation. Transcendence is the key. We should all become third gender. (Just kidding. I had nothing else to end with. By the way, your emphasis on "third gender" is pretty unusual to me. Do you mean non-binary people? Or are you using it as some TERFy catch-all for trans people? :p)
  - NoRagrets 5y ago
    Sorry. I don’t know but will look into it. Although I do subscribe to transhumanism philosophy IRL. But there are all flavours of transhumanists. We don’t all agree with each other. Third gender is the term used in India for transgender. They are a very visible group with their third gender identity for centuries now and are part of our societies. They are recognized and it is important to recognize third gender as a category so they don’t feel the need to identify with the biological genders. It is a failure of western society that they haven’t been recognized as non-binary and hence rendered invisible.
    - shrimp_emoji 5y ago
      >Third gender is the term used in India for transgender. Aaaah. That makes sense. The reason that was unusual to me was because, in the West, currently, the prevailing view/jargon is that there's genders, and each gender can be "cis" or "trans". More controversially, there are also non-binary people, who may report no gender, a mix of genders, or a gender other than "man"/"woman". That would be your usage of "third gender".
      - jelliclesfarm 5y ago
        Right. For many non-western people, ‘cisgender’ is a made up western term. There has always been non binary and transgender in different cultures around the world. In my culture, there are two genders(not ‘cis’..what does it even mean?) and then there is the third gender. In Hindu puranas, there are many gods we worship who are of two genders, transgender and then there is the father of Ganga(the holiest River of Hinduism) who was born to two women. Here is ..provided with much reservations…a generic search result link: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_themes_in_Hindu_mythology https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_themes_in_Hindu_mytholo... ..I reject all western interpretations and ‘scholarly work’ and have a dim view of western style psychoanalysis of my gods and culture. But it works..as a list.
- slibhb 5y ago
  I didn't downvote your post but it comes off as deranged. Describing men and women as different species is technically wrong. Women and men who are psychologically healthy don't want to be separated from each other because they like each other. I read Out of Africa recently and this quote stuck with me: > The love of woman and womanliness is a masculine characteristic, and the love of man and manliness a feminine characteristic
  - NoRagrets 5y ago
    I don’t think they should be ‘separated from each other’. What I meant was that they have diff social roles and different strengths/weaknesses. We shouldn’t be competing with those who are unequal to us. However, not competing doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t cooperate. The reason I brought up the example of healthcare is because that’s the most egregious injustice against women. Because of women’s biology and the primary care taking role they adopt(and are good at..), our healthcare needs are different. And yet..women are not taken seriously when they complain of pain and are always under prescribed pain meds. They are not believed if they explain their symptoms. It’s worse in the USA by all accounts Altho I don’t have first hand healthcare experience in other countries(well..other than india and UK). And yet, we are supposed to be peers with men who never go through half the illnesses or conditions we experience. Doesn’t quality of healthcare and health condition and mental well being affect how people work? How are we ‘equal’ to men? And yet…in a workplace you can’t discriminate. The only solution is to create separate economic blocs and healthcare blocs for different genders as we all have different struggles that affect our ability to perform in professional and social spheres. There is no need for seperataion in communal spheres. I think often about healthcare and health insurance that is exclusively for women. How will it change our quality of life? This isn’t to say that men are inferior or that women are superior..nor is it a victim card. Absolutely not! But to not see the differences is a fail. No one wins. So we come to pregnancy, PMS and menopause…all of which have been caricatured that many women feel like they shouldn’t complain. We are reduced and clubbed under the label of ‘ menstruating persons’ and ‘birthing people’. And these are official terms. Slowly our dignity and our identity is being erased. Men don’t care enough for women because it’s not their battle to fight(and that’s ok) because they have no lived experience. I don’t know why the third gender wants to appropriate our identity when they haven’t shared our struggles. Women are the silent majority whose cries aren’t heard anymore but are still judged as equal players and competitors on playing fields that is grossly unfair. P.S: I would have appreciated your words if you didn’t call my comment ‘deranged’. I am less inclined to take someone seriously when their evaluation of my words is needlessly rude. Perhaps choose your words and consider if it comes across as an insult. Thanks. ETA P.S2: In a forum that had an equal or higher split of male: female ratio unlike this testosterone heavy HN, my comment wouldn’t have been flagged. Or called ‘deranged’. There would have been at least some curiosity and a discussion even if there were some who would disagree. ETA PS3: Imagine if it is so in a small forum online…imagine how it would be for women who work in male dominated work places and a world that has more power vested with men. Men make decisions about women’s reproductive rights in Texas. A man in Utah decided that it’s ok for a transgender student to compete with biological girls students in high school sports. Transgender women insult biological women calling them TERFs. Women have lost all agency. This needs to change.