4 ms·

Interested to see, if this trend continues, if heterosexual women will adapt to desire men with less financial success than them.

by daenz 5y ago

filoleg 5y ago
I feel like this one is a problem on both ends. Quite many women are not ok with dating men earning less than them, and quite many men are not comfortable dating women earning more than them. From my personal perspective, it is sheer silliness, especially on the part of (a good number of) men. While I don’t agree with it, I can see why someone would be hesitant to date someone earning less than them. But I am struggling to see that many tangible downsides of dating someone earning more than you do. There are, of course, some potential downsides in every situation. But given that men (in general) seem to have no personal qualms about dating women earning less than them, i fail to see why a good number of them would be so vocally opposed to the inverse of it.
- ip26 5y ago
  Culturally, a lot of the value men bring to the relationship is providership, security, stability. If you as a man don’t even bring that anymore, what do you bring? If you don’t bring anything, are you just another fling?
  - tsol 5y ago
    We used to say that about women and doing domestic chores. "Well women take care of the kids, provide a stable loving home and warm meals for the family. If they work what do they even bring to a relationship??". It's unfortunate that we can't seem to be so progressive on these things
    - ip26 5y ago
      That's a very interesting line of thought. Once upon a time if you were not an attractive woman, you could still be a very appealing match if you learned to be a great cook & were great with kids. Now, if you aren't gorgeous, a winning personality is the only play you have left. There might be a really interesting discussion there. Perhaps reduced role of homemaking has increased the pressure of beauty standards on women...
- DangitBobby 5y ago
  People compare themselves to their spouses. If you feel like your spouse is "our of your league" it's harder to feel secure in your relationship. Men are probably being pretty pragmatic here, given that even though higher income tends to make men more attractive as a spouse, women still initiate 70% of divorces.
- yes_really 5y ago
  Those men are probably afraid that the women will disrespect, cheat, abuse and divorce them. Remember that women initiate 70% of the divorces.
ip26 5y ago
Well, supposedly the current pattern is the successful women are conditioned to seek more successful men. This is a big courtship problem if women are more successful than men. Age preference could shift- e.g. even if 25 year old men are less successful than 25 year old women, 30 year old men might still be doing better. This affords men extra time to take high risk high reward financial strategies & mature. Continuing on the theme of risk, it could drive men further down the path of risk & split outcomes (men are over represented in boardrooms and in prisons). That could be socially destabilizing, with an increase in men on the bottom. Or, preferences could transition to prioritize other things. Who cares if he is broke, look at those muscles! The second order impacts are the crazy part to think about. If responsibility, providing, and stability become feminine traits, then do men culturally assume current feminine traits, like “free spirit” and “experimental”?
- jokoon 5y ago
  > Well, supposedly the current pattern is the successful women are conditioned to seek more successful men. I really don't understand this, it feels like it's matter of culture. Success is subjective. I still wonder how success is defined in those studies. I have a difficult time believing that women really prefer men with higher social status, it seems like a bad meme. And if it's true, it would be interesting to hear what feminist think about this, because that would explain why men still seek social status in the first place.
  - ip26 5y ago
    Have you spent even ten minutes reading research on the matter? Reality is nuanced, but it's very well established that women highly value status in men.
    - jokoon 5y ago
      Established? Does wikipedia quote this? Any other serious source?
jokoon 5y ago
It made sense, in the past, that women with less social status would desire men with more social status. But once women gain social status, I don't see why they would still desire men with higher status. If most women still do desire men with higher status, it means most women have integrated patriarchal values, which is something feminists should really talk about.

Interested to see, if this trend continues, if heterosexual women will adapt to desire men with less financial success than them.

by daenz 5y ago

Interested to see, if this trend continues, if heterosexual women will adapt to desire men with less financial success than them.

filoleg 5y ago

I feel like this one is a problem on both ends. Quite many women are not ok with dating men earning less than them, and quite many men are not comfortable dating women earning more than them. From my personal perspective, it is sheer silliness, especially on the part of (a good number of) men. While I don’t agree with it, I can see why someone would be hesitant to date someone earning less than them. But I am struggling to see that many tangible downsides of dating someone earning more than you do. There are, of course, some potential downsides in every situation. But given that men (in general) seem to have no personal qualms about dating women earning less than them, i fail to see why a good number of them would be so vocally opposed to the inverse of it.

ip26 5y ago
Culturally, a lot of the value men bring to the relationship is providership, security, stability. If you as a man don’t even bring that anymore, what do you bring? If you don’t bring anything, are you just another fling?
- tsol 5y ago
  We used to say that about women and doing domestic chores. "Well women take care of the kids, provide a stable loving home and warm meals for the family. If they work what do they even bring to a relationship??". It's unfortunate that we can't seem to be so progressive on these things
  - ip26 5y ago
    That's a very interesting line of thought. Once upon a time if you were not an attractive woman, you could still be a very appealing match if you learned to be a great cook & were great with kids. Now, if you aren't gorgeous, a winning personality is the only play you have left. There might be a really interesting discussion there. Perhaps reduced role of homemaking has increased the pressure of beauty standards on women...
DangitBobby 5y ago
People compare themselves to their spouses. If you feel like your spouse is "our of your league" it's harder to feel secure in your relationship. Men are probably being pretty pragmatic here, given that even though higher income tends to make men more attractive as a spouse, women still initiate 70% of divorces.
yes_really 5y ago
Those men are probably afraid that the women will disrespect, cheat, abuse and divorce them. Remember that women initiate 70% of the divorces.

ip26 5y ago

Well, supposedly the current pattern is the successful women are conditioned to seek more successful men. This is a big courtship problem if women are more successful than men. Age preference could shift- e.g. even if 25 year old men are less successful than 25 year old women, 30 year old men might still be doing better. This affords men extra time to take high risk high reward financial strategies & mature. Continuing on the theme of risk, it could drive men further down the path of risk & split outcomes (men are over represented in boardrooms and in prisons). That could be socially destabilizing, with an increase in men on the bottom. Or, preferences could transition to prioritize other things. Who cares if he is broke, look at those muscles! The second order impacts are the crazy part to think about. If responsibility, providing, and stability become feminine traits, then do men culturally assume current feminine traits, like “free spirit” and “experimental”?

jokoon 5y ago
> Well, supposedly the current pattern is the successful women are conditioned to seek more successful men. I really don't understand this, it feels like it's matter of culture. Success is subjective. I still wonder how success is defined in those studies. I have a difficult time believing that women really prefer men with higher social status, it seems like a bad meme. And if it's true, it would be interesting to hear what feminist think about this, because that would explain why men still seek social status in the first place.
- ip26 5y ago
  Have you spent even ten minutes reading research on the matter? Reality is nuanced, but it's very well established that women highly value status in men.
  - jokoon 5y ago
    Established? Does wikipedia quote this? Any other serious source?

jokoon 5y ago

It made sense, in the past, that women with less social status would desire men with more social status. But once women gain social status, I don't see why they would still desire men with higher status. If most women still do desire men with higher status, it means most women have integrated patriarchal values, which is something feminists should really talk about.