4 ms·

I'm not convinced. There are plenty of countries with social safety nets galore, and all of them seem to have fewer freedoms and fewer small businesses created

by umvi 5y ago

I'm not convinced. There are plenty of countries with social safety nets galore, and all of them seem to have fewer freedoms and fewer small businesses created per capita than the USA.

MisterBastahrd 5y ago
Most "businesses" created in America are shell corps designed to push money around and limit liabilities. They don't produce anything.
jdmichal 5y ago
If this is any indication, the US is certainly not winning that race: https://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/stats/Economy/Micro/Small-and-medium-enterprises/Number/Per-capita https://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/stats/Economy/Micr... I'm looking for a better source still, so if you find one please post it here. EDIT: I found this. Numbers are a bit old (2007), but it shows self-employment rate per capita on page 4, which is exactly the metric we're interested in discussing. https://www.cepr.net/documents/publications/small-business-2009-08.pdf https://www.cepr.net/documents/publications/small-business-2... So, based on those two sources, your assertion seems straight up incorrect.
- knubie 5y ago
  I'm not sure where that first link is getting its numbers, or why they're so outdated, but the US Small Business Association puts the number of small businesses in the US at around 31.7 million [0], or just over 100 per 1,000 people, which would top that list (excluding Indonesia, which, BTW why is it so high?) [0] https://cdn.advocacy.sba.gov/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/05122043/Small-Business-FAQ-2020.pdf https://cdn.advocacy.sba.gov/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/0512...
- jotm 5y ago
  Do companies count as self-employed, though?
jotm 5y ago
That's because good safety nets means people don't have to take risks on business. So that leaves only the people who want to start a business. Who tend to leave for countries where it's easier to run a business and where they don't have to pay for the safety nets, but that's besides the point. As for freedoms, I don't know. Not that much of a difference between US, UK and Germany from what I can tell.
- WalterBright 5y ago
  Why are the FAANG companies all based in the US?
  - ZeroGravitas 5y ago
    Same reason they make most of their physical stuff in China. The government allows the most abuses.
  - disgruntledphd2 5y ago
    Large amounts of venture capital from US investors, a really large monolingual market and path dependence. More generally though, relying on outliers for your argument is perhaps not the best approach.
    - WalterBright 5y ago
      Outlier? FAANG is just the top of the market. Companies are started in the US and grown because the opportunity to make money is much greater. Venture capital? An awful lot of the venture capital comes from foreign investors. Monolingual? The global business world runs on English. Outliers? When it's all of them, the idea it is a coincidence starts getting pretty unlikely.
      - disgruntledphd2 5y ago
        > Companies are started in the US and grown because the opportunity to make money is much greater. I'm not convinced that this is the case. Like, the US market is cheaper to operate in relative to other markets the same size (e.g. the EU) because you have an over-arching system of laws, contracts and (most importantly) language. If your theory is correct, then one would expect the US to remain the largest source of profitable companies globally. If my theory is correct, one might expect China/India to take it's place. Come back in 20 years, I guess? > Venture capital? An awful lot of the venture capital comes from foreign investors. Can you point to some sources on this. A quick Google didn't reveal much information, and I really would like to know. Modulo Softbank, I suspect that it's mostly US based institutions giving VC's their money. > Monolingual? The global business world runs on English. All of the big companies you mentioned sell to consumers, not businesses, so the global language of business is kinda irrelevant. My point was that the US is a relatively integrated, large market with one language. Most startups begin in their home company. While a startup from Greece would likely have to hire more people to scale across the EU (20+ languages), the equivalent US based startup can scale happily without worrying about languages for a much longer period. > Outliers? When it's all of them, the idea it is a coincidence starts getting pretty unlikely. FAANG are 100% outliers, I don't see how you can believe otherwise. However, Europe has produced SAP (uggghhhh), Spotify, and a bunch of second-tier fintechs (but given the regulatory advantages of the EU in this space, I suspect one of them will conquer the world).
padraic7a 5y ago
What freedoms are other countries lacking? Just guns?
- umvi 5y ago
  The freedom to say mildly offensive things on Twitter without getting punished by the state?
- mensetmanusman 5y ago
  In Germany it is illegal to school your children if you don’t like what the public institutions are doing.

by umvi 5y ago

I'm not convinced. There are plenty of countries with social safety nets galore, and all of them seem to have fewer freedoms and fewer small businesses created per capita than the USA.

MisterBastahrd 5y ago

Most "businesses" created in America are shell corps designed to push money around and limit liabilities. They don't produce anything.

jdmichal 5y ago

If this is any indication, the US is certainly not winning that race: https://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/stats/Economy/Micro/Small-and-medium-enterprises/Number/Per-capita https://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/stats/Economy/Micr... I'm looking for a better source still, so if you find one please post it here. EDIT: I found this. Numbers are a bit old (2007), but it shows self-employment rate per capita on page 4, which is exactly the metric we're interested in discussing. https://www.cepr.net/documents/publications/small-business-2009-08.pdf https://www.cepr.net/documents/publications/small-business-2... So, based on those two sources, your assertion seems straight up incorrect.

knubie 5y ago
I'm not sure where that first link is getting its numbers, or why they're so outdated, but the US Small Business Association puts the number of small businesses in the US at around 31.7 million [0], or just over 100 per 1,000 people, which would top that list (excluding Indonesia, which, BTW why is it so high?) [0] https://cdn.advocacy.sba.gov/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/05122043/Small-Business-FAQ-2020.pdf https://cdn.advocacy.sba.gov/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/0512...
jotm 5y ago
Do companies count as self-employed, though?

jotm 5y ago

That's because good safety nets means people don't have to take risks on business. So that leaves only the people who want to start a business. Who tend to leave for countries where it's easier to run a business and where they don't have to pay for the safety nets, but that's besides the point. As for freedoms, I don't know. Not that much of a difference between US, UK and Germany from what I can tell.

WalterBright 5y ago
Why are the FAANG companies all based in the US?
- ZeroGravitas 5y ago
  Same reason they make most of their physical stuff in China. The government allows the most abuses.
- disgruntledphd2 5y ago
  Large amounts of venture capital from US investors, a really large monolingual market and path dependence. More generally though, relying on outliers for your argument is perhaps not the best approach.
  - WalterBright 5y ago
    Outlier? FAANG is just the top of the market. Companies are started in the US and grown because the opportunity to make money is much greater. Venture capital? An awful lot of the venture capital comes from foreign investors. Monolingual? The global business world runs on English. Outliers? When it's all of them, the idea it is a coincidence starts getting pretty unlikely.
    - disgruntledphd2 5y ago
      > Companies are started in the US and grown because the opportunity to make money is much greater. I'm not convinced that this is the case. Like, the US market is cheaper to operate in relative to other markets the same size (e.g. the EU) because you have an over-arching system of laws, contracts and (most importantly) language. If your theory is correct, then one would expect the US to remain the largest source of profitable companies globally. If my theory is correct, one might expect China/India to take it's place. Come back in 20 years, I guess? > Venture capital? An awful lot of the venture capital comes from foreign investors. Can you point to some sources on this. A quick Google didn't reveal much information, and I really would like to know. Modulo Softbank, I suspect that it's mostly US based institutions giving VC's their money. > Monolingual? The global business world runs on English. All of the big companies you mentioned sell to consumers, not businesses, so the global language of business is kinda irrelevant. My point was that the US is a relatively integrated, large market with one language. Most startups begin in their home company. While a startup from Greece would likely have to hire more people to scale across the EU (20+ languages), the equivalent US based startup can scale happily without worrying about languages for a much longer period. > Outliers? When it's all of them, the idea it is a coincidence starts getting pretty unlikely. FAANG are 100% outliers, I don't see how you can believe otherwise. However, Europe has produced SAP (uggghhhh), Spotify, and a bunch of second-tier fintechs (but given the regulatory advantages of the EU in this space, I suspect one of them will conquer the world).

padraic7a 5y ago

What freedoms are other countries lacking? Just guns?

umvi 5y ago
The freedom to say mildly offensive things on Twitter without getting punished by the state?
mensetmanusman 5y ago
In Germany it is illegal to school your children if you don’t like what the public institutions are doing.