26 ms·

I think that question pretty much answers itself, especially if one looks at voting demographics by income. The idea of the republican working class party has

by ATsch 5y ago

I think that question pretty much answers itself, especially if one looks at voting demographics by income. The idea of the republican working class party has always been more of a clever rhetorical strategy than a reality. (perhaps, on a more speculative note, also a reflection of the seemingly general conservative pattern of wanting to see oneself as "normal", to the point of sometimes fabricating "silent majorities" and such, even when there is overwhelming counter evidence)

refurb 5y ago
The idea of the republican working class party has always been more of a clever rhetorical strategy than a reality. I find this a funny criticism considered when Trump won a big swath of non-college graduates (presumably blue collar workers) he was ridiculed for having the “dumb” vote.
- Bilal_io 5y ago
  No, he was ridiculed for [loving] the dumb vote, because he said so. https://youtu.be/Vpdt7omPoa0 https://youtu.be/Vpdt7omPoa0
  - refurb 5y ago
    Well that was amazingly dishonest of you. He said he loves the “poorly educated”, he never said “dumb”, you did, which I think says more about you than Trump.
    - BoiledCabbage 5y ago
      That's incredibly dishonest of you. You introduced "dumb" as a euphemism for poorly educated. You did that in this discussion. The poster than quotes directly Trump saying he loves the poorly educated, and then you presumably feign being upset at the use of the word "dumb" that you introduced. That speaks volumes about you.
      - refurb 5y ago
        I didn't introduce "dumb". That's why I put in quotes, I was quoting what others had said. And regardless, clearly Bilal_io was accusing Trump of something negative or why else share that clip? He literally sad "Trump was ridiculed" and shared that clip. So he agrees Trump was ridiculed for loving the "uneducated vote", which was entirely my point. You either missed that or are intentionally trying to gaslight me.
        BoiledCabbage 5y ago
        > I was quoting what others had said. Then please share the quote from a legit source (and not joe schmo on the internet). And again, it's not clear if you know what you wrote. Bila_io didn't accuse Trump of something negative. You again said: > Trump won a big swath of non-college graduates (presumably blue collar workers) he was ridiculed for having the “dumb” vote. You specifically introduced Trump being ridiculed. Do you again not see that you introduced this concept to the discussion and yet are accusing the other person of doing it? You both wrote "dumb" and the concept of "ridicule" and are assigning responsibility to both of those to the person who responded to you. You introduced both of those in the context of Trump.
        refurb 5y ago
        Yup, you’re gaslighting. Google it, plenty of articles with headlines like this “Now there's proof: Trump's voters lack "cognitive sophistication," often believe Bible is literal word of God” https://www.salon.com/2022/03/23/new-research-on-voters-theyre-not-the-sharpest-tools-in-the-box/ https://www.salon.com/2022/03/23/new-research-on-voters-they... Or maybe "Trump Won Because Voters Are Ignorant, Literally" which includes "Donald Trump always enjoyed massive support from uneducated, low-information white people." https://foreignpolicy.com/2016/11/10/the-dance-of-the-dunces-trump-clinton-election-republican-democrat/ https://foreignpolicy.com/2016/11/10/the-dance-of-the-dunces... Happy to provide another dozen similar articles if you’d like. I introduced nothing. I quoted articles (like the above). Sure you can be pedantic and nitpick over “cognitive sophistication” or "low-information" or "ignorant", but you know exactly what they meant - "dumb". And what did Bila_io say? "No, he was ridiculed for [loving] the dumb vote, because he said so." I would read that as agreement that he was ridiculed for loving the "dumb" vote, the only argument being made was that Trump agreed they were "dumb" (which the clip doesn't support in the least). And if Bila_io wasn’t accusing Trump of something negative, what was the point of the reply? Just sharing a random clip for fun?
- kevin_thibedeau 5y ago
  It's a scheme for the wealthy who the party exclusively serves to win elections by pandering with negative messaging designed to appeal to the disaffected. They can't win seats as the party of big business and special interests.
rootusrootus 5y ago
> The idea of the republican working class party has always been more of a clever rhetorical strategy than a reality. I tend to agree, but then again I really don't grok the Trump thing, and I can't claim that I saw it coming or sticking around as long as it has. At this point I would not be terribly shocked to see a bit of role reversal between the two major parties.
- ATsch 5y ago
  I'm not completely sure what you mean, the 2016 votes leaned approximately democrat for <75k and and republican >75k like every other election in recent US history, although admittedly by a lower margin than the previous years. In 2020 it seems to have returned to a larger gap again.
- ARandomerDude 5y ago
  I've been a conservative since I had a minimum wage job, for one reason: I want the government out of my life as much as possible. I firmly believe nobody will care about my family as much as I do and I don't want the government's golden handcuffs. Leave me alone, let me work, and I'll happily live with whatever happens. I think this is the fundamental disconnect in left-right (economic) politics. The left, as I see it, wants some guarantee of a good outcome. The right wants liberty, recognizing that comes with risk.
  - irrational 5y ago
    That’s an awfully selfish outlook, isn’t it? Shouldn’t we be willing as a society to care for the poor and needy among us? So far every other group and organization has completely failed at that, except for government. I am happy to pay my taxes so that my government can take care of those who not as well off as I am.
  - mattwad 5y ago
    > I want the government out of my life as much as possible unless it has to do with your education, gender identity, sexual preference, religion, voting, or women's rights, I assume
zeruch 5y ago
"The idea of the republican working class party has always been more of a clever rhetorical strategy than a reality." Always? No. But certainly since the 1970s.
- Retric 5y ago
  Parties benefit from ideological inertia. I prefer small government that minimizes spending… So based on recent voting patterns, I vote Democrat.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - lliamander 5y ago
    Neither of the two parties represents anything close to a small-government platform.
    - Retric 5y ago
      I agree. So, the question is if you want lower spending etc, who do you vote for? It’s not obvious. Take a corporate tax loophole, is that spending and or a form of economic control? Foreign ownership of US companies compounds this, is it giving money to foreigners or good economic policy etc.
      - parineum 5y ago
        > Take a corporate tax loophole Tax policy you disagree with isn't a loophole.
        glitchc 5y ago
        Tax policy that benefits the select few instead of the country is a loophole.
        5y ago

by ATsch 5y ago

refurb 5y ago

The idea of the republican working class party has always been more of a clever rhetorical strategy than a reality. I find this a funny criticism considered when Trump won a big swath of non-college graduates (presumably blue collar workers) he was ridiculed for having the “dumb” vote.

Bilal_io 5y ago
No, he was ridiculed for [loving] the dumb vote, because he said so. https://youtu.be/Vpdt7omPoa0 https://youtu.be/Vpdt7omPoa0
- refurb 5y ago
  Well that was amazingly dishonest of you. He said he loves the “poorly educated”, he never said “dumb”, you did, which I think says more about you than Trump.
  - BoiledCabbage 5y ago
    That's incredibly dishonest of you. You introduced "dumb" as a euphemism for poorly educated. You did that in this discussion. The poster than quotes directly Trump saying he loves the poorly educated, and then you presumably feign being upset at the use of the word "dumb" that you introduced. That speaks volumes about you.
    - refurb 5y ago
      I didn't introduce "dumb". That's why I put in quotes, I was quoting what others had said. And regardless, clearly Bilal_io was accusing Trump of something negative or why else share that clip? He literally sad "Trump was ridiculed" and shared that clip. So he agrees Trump was ridiculed for loving the "uneducated vote", which was entirely my point. You either missed that or are intentionally trying to gaslight me.
      - BoiledCabbage 5y ago
        > I was quoting what others had said. Then please share the quote from a legit source (and not joe schmo on the internet). And again, it's not clear if you know what you wrote. Bila_io didn't accuse Trump of something negative. You again said: > Trump won a big swath of non-college graduates (presumably blue collar workers) he was ridiculed for having the “dumb” vote. You specifically introduced Trump being ridiculed. Do you again not see that you introduced this concept to the discussion and yet are accusing the other person of doing it? You both wrote "dumb" and the concept of "ridicule" and are assigning responsibility to both of those to the person who responded to you. You introduced both of those in the context of Trump.
        refurb 5y ago
        Yup, you’re gaslighting. Google it, plenty of articles with headlines like this “Now there's proof: Trump's voters lack "cognitive sophistication," often believe Bible is literal word of God” https://www.salon.com/2022/03/23/new-research-on-voters-theyre-not-the-sharpest-tools-in-the-box/ https://www.salon.com/2022/03/23/new-research-on-voters-they... Or maybe "Trump Won Because Voters Are Ignorant, Literally" which includes "Donald Trump always enjoyed massive support from uneducated, low-information white people." https://foreignpolicy.com/2016/11/10/the-dance-of-the-dunces-trump-clinton-election-republican-democrat/ https://foreignpolicy.com/2016/11/10/the-dance-of-the-dunces... Happy to provide another dozen similar articles if you’d like. I introduced nothing. I quoted articles (like the above). Sure you can be pedantic and nitpick over “cognitive sophistication” or "low-information" or "ignorant", but you know exactly what they meant - "dumb". And what did Bila_io say? "No, he was ridiculed for [loving] the dumb vote, because he said so." I would read that as agreement that he was ridiculed for loving the "dumb" vote, the only argument being made was that Trump agreed they were "dumb" (which the clip doesn't support in the least). And if Bila_io wasn’t accusing Trump of something negative, what was the point of the reply? Just sharing a random clip for fun?
kevin_thibedeau 5y ago
It's a scheme for the wealthy who the party exclusively serves to win elections by pandering with negative messaging designed to appeal to the disaffected. They can't win seats as the party of big business and special interests.

rootusrootus 5y ago

> The idea of the republican working class party has always been more of a clever rhetorical strategy than a reality. I tend to agree, but then again I really don't grok the Trump thing, and I can't claim that I saw it coming or sticking around as long as it has. At this point I would not be terribly shocked to see a bit of role reversal between the two major parties.

ATsch 5y ago
I'm not completely sure what you mean, the 2016 votes leaned approximately democrat for <75k and and republican >75k like every other election in recent US history, although admittedly by a lower margin than the previous years. In 2020 it seems to have returned to a larger gap again.
ARandomerDude 5y ago
I've been a conservative since I had a minimum wage job, for one reason: I want the government out of my life as much as possible. I firmly believe nobody will care about my family as much as I do and I don't want the government's golden handcuffs. Leave me alone, let me work, and I'll happily live with whatever happens. I think this is the fundamental disconnect in left-right (economic) politics. The left, as I see it, wants some guarantee of a good outcome. The right wants liberty, recognizing that comes with risk.
- irrational 5y ago
  That’s an awfully selfish outlook, isn’t it? Shouldn’t we be willing as a society to care for the poor and needy among us? So far every other group and organization has completely failed at that, except for government. I am happy to pay my taxes so that my government can take care of those who not as well off as I am.
- mattwad 5y ago
  > I want the government out of my life as much as possible unless it has to do with your education, gender identity, sexual preference, religion, voting, or women's rights, I assume

zeruch 5y ago

"The idea of the republican working class party has always been more of a clever rhetorical strategy than a reality." Always? No. But certainly since the 1970s.

Retric 5y ago
Parties benefit from ideological inertia. I prefer small government that minimizes spending… So based on recent voting patterns, I vote Democrat.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- lliamander 5y ago
  Neither of the two parties represents anything close to a small-government platform.
  - Retric 5y ago
    I agree. So, the question is if you want lower spending etc, who do you vote for? It’s not obvious. Take a corporate tax loophole, is that spending and or a form of economic control? Foreign ownership of US companies compounds this, is it giving money to foreigners or good economic policy etc.
    - parineum 5y ago
      > Take a corporate tax loophole Tax policy you disagree with isn't a loophole.
      - glitchc 5y ago
        Tax policy that benefits the select few instead of the country is a loophole.
        5y ago