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> Normally this kind of movement would be a strength of the left. But lately the right has become quite populist, so maybe this plays in their direction. I saw

> Normally this kind of movement would be a strength of the left. But lately the right has become quite populist, so maybe this plays in their direction. I saw an op-ed from a conservative magazine on this exact theme: [1]. The author basically says, "if we're claiming to be the party of the working class, shouldn't we be in favor of this?" 1: https://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/republicans-should-support-the-amazon-labor-union-effort/ https://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/republicans...

ATsch 5y ago
I think that question pretty much answers itself, especially if one looks at voting demographics by income. The idea of the republican working class party has always been more of a clever rhetorical strategy than a reality. (perhaps, on a more speculative note, also a reflection of the seemingly general conservative pattern of wanting to see oneself as "normal", to the point of sometimes fabricating "silent majorities" and such, even when there is overwhelming counter evidence)
- refurb 5y ago
  The idea of the republican working class party has always been more of a clever rhetorical strategy than a reality. I find this a funny criticism considered when Trump won a big swath of non-college graduates (presumably blue collar workers) he was ridiculed for having the “dumb” vote.
  - Bilal_io 5y ago
    No, he was ridiculed for [loving] the dumb vote, because he said so. https://youtu.be/Vpdt7omPoa0 https://youtu.be/Vpdt7omPoa0
    - refurb 5y ago
      Well that was amazingly dishonest of you. He said he loves the “poorly educated”, he never said “dumb”, you did, which I think says more about you than Trump.
      - BoiledCabbage 5y ago
        That's incredibly dishonest of you. You introduced "dumb" as a euphemism for poorly educated. You did that in this discussion. The poster than quotes directly Trump saying he loves the poorly educated, and then you presumably feign being upset at the use of the word "dumb" that you introduced. That speaks volumes about you.
        refurb 5y ago
        I didn't introduce "dumb". That's why I put in quotes, I was quoting what others had said. And regardless, clearly Bilal_io was accusing Trump of something negative or why else share that clip? He literally sad "Trump was ridiculed" and shared that clip. So he agrees Trump was ridiculed for loving the "uneducated vote", which was entirely my point. You either missed that or are intentionally trying to gaslight me.
        BoiledCabbage 5y ago
        > I was quoting what others had said. Then please share the quote from a legit source (and not joe schmo on the internet). And again, it's not clear if you know what you wrote. Bila_io didn't accuse Trump of something negative. You again said: > Trump won a big swath of non-college graduates (presumably blue collar workers) he was ridiculed for having the “dumb” vote. You specifically introduced Trump being ridiculed. Do you again not see that you introduced this concept to the discussion and yet are accusing the other person of doing it? You both wrote "dumb" and the concept of "ridicule" and are assigning responsibility to both of those to the person who responded to you. You introduced both of those in the context of Trump.
        refurb 5y ago
        Yup, you’re gaslighting. Google it, plenty of articles with headlines like this “Now there's proof: Trump's voters lack "cognitive sophistication," often believe Bible is literal word of God” https://www.salon.com/2022/03/23/new-research-on-voters-theyre-not-the-sharpest-tools-in-the-box/ https://www.salon.com/2022/03/23/new-research-on-voters-they... Or maybe "Trump Won Because Voters Are Ignorant, Literally" which includes "Donald Trump always enjoyed massive support from uneducated, low-information white people." https://foreignpolicy.com/2016/11/10/the-dance-of-the-dunces-trump-clinton-election-republican-democrat/ https://foreignpolicy.com/2016/11/10/the-dance-of-the-dunces... Happy to provide another dozen similar articles if you’d like. I introduced nothing. I quoted articles (like the above). Sure you can be pedantic and nitpick over “cognitive sophistication” or "low-information" or "ignorant", but you know exactly what they meant - "dumb". And what did Bila_io say? "No, he was ridiculed for [loving] the dumb vote, because he said so." I would read that as agreement that he was ridiculed for loving the "dumb" vote, the only argument being made was that Trump agreed they were "dumb" (which the clip doesn't support in the least). And if Bila_io wasn’t accusing Trump of something negative, what was the point of the reply? Just sharing a random clip for fun?
  - kevin_thibedeau 5y ago
    It's a scheme for the wealthy who the party exclusively serves to win elections by pandering with negative messaging designed to appeal to the disaffected. They can't win seats as the party of big business and special interests.
- rootusrootus 5y ago
  > The idea of the republican working class party has always been more of a clever rhetorical strategy than a reality. I tend to agree, but then again I really don't grok the Trump thing, and I can't claim that I saw it coming or sticking around as long as it has. At this point I would not be terribly shocked to see a bit of role reversal between the two major parties.
  - ATsch 5y ago
    I'm not completely sure what you mean, the 2016 votes leaned approximately democrat for <75k and and republican >75k like every other election in recent US history, although admittedly by a lower margin than the previous years. In 2020 it seems to have returned to a larger gap again.
  - ARandomerDude 5y ago
    I've been a conservative since I had a minimum wage job, for one reason: I want the government out of my life as much as possible. I firmly believe nobody will care about my family as much as I do and I don't want the government's golden handcuffs. Leave me alone, let me work, and I'll happily live with whatever happens. I think this is the fundamental disconnect in left-right (economic) politics. The left, as I see it, wants some guarantee of a good outcome. The right wants liberty, recognizing that comes with risk.
    - irrational 5y ago
      That’s an awfully selfish outlook, isn’t it? Shouldn’t we be willing as a society to care for the poor and needy among us? So far every other group and organization has completely failed at that, except for government. I am happy to pay my taxes so that my government can take care of those who not as well off as I am.
    - mattwad 5y ago
      > I want the government out of my life as much as possible unless it has to do with your education, gender identity, sexual preference, religion, voting, or women's rights, I assume
- zeruch 5y ago
  "The idea of the republican working class party has always been more of a clever rhetorical strategy than a reality." Always? No. But certainly since the 1970s.
  - Retric 5y ago
    Parties benefit from ideological inertia. I prefer small government that minimizes spending… So based on recent voting patterns, I vote Democrat.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - lliamander 5y ago
      Neither of the two parties represents anything close to a small-government platform.
      - Retric 5y ago
        I agree. So, the question is if you want lower spending etc, who do you vote for? It’s not obvious. Take a corporate tax loophole, is that spending and or a form of economic control? Foreign ownership of US companies compounds this, is it giving money to foreigners or good economic policy etc.
        parineum 5y ago
        > Take a corporate tax loophole Tax policy you disagree with isn't a loophole.
        glitchc 5y ago
        Tax policy that benefits the select few instead of the country is a loophole.
        5y ago
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
jorblumesea 5y ago
> "if we're claiming to be the party of the working class, shouldn't we be in favor of this?" But they don't really mean it and have never meant it. The Republican party, at least in modern history, has never been pro working class in any real sense. The opposite in fact, probably far more hostile to working class than Democrats. Much of the "pro working class" rhetoric is largely just conservative values like abortion or region. Maybe a better way to phrase it is "pro rural white conservative working class values".
- AnimalMuppet 5y ago
  But they might mean it going forward. The parties realign - rarely, but not never. And there are a whole lot of voters who have been abandoned by the Democratic Party moving away from what it has been. It would not be impossible for the Republican Party to move into that territory. Of course, it is more likely for the Republican Party to talk like it's moving into that territory, but not actually do anything. But, for example, Trump's emphasis on "America over trade" is something that could actually help workers.
  - Taikonerd 5y ago
    Exactly, and I think Ahmari's article was sort of laying down a challenge for his fellow Republicans: "are we going to talk about helping the working class, or are we going to do it?"
- imwillofficial 5y ago
  “ But they don't really mean it and have never meant it.” Ah reading millions of minds I see.
  - dlp211 5y ago
    I don't care about what you believe, I care about what policy you enact, and Republican policy has been objectively anti-worker for my lifetime. So if you vote for Republicans, you are anti-worker.
  - 5y ago
KennyBlanken 5y ago
The Republican party has always been pro "working class" in that their policies have been focused on trapping the "working class." Keep them poor, uneducated, easily manipulated, and powerless as a worker so they are easily exploited. Republicans hate social programs like welfare because it's so much easier to prey up on John Q Factory Worker when John is paycheck-to-paycheck and terrified of losing his job. Ditto for universal health insurance. With medical bills are the top cause of personal bankruptcy, tying a basic human need/right to employment is just yet another way they get to hold a workforce in fear.
sorry_outta_gas 5y ago
with the rise of the new generation of robber barons that's not suprising there will lots of change and crisis until things balance out
hnburnsy 5y ago
Marco Rubio came out in favor of the works at Amazon., last year he wrote: >Here’s my standard: When the conflict is between working Americans and a company whose leadership has decided to wage culture war against working-class values, the choice is easy — I support the workers. And that’s why I stand with those at Amazon’s Bessemer warehouse today. Was there a large ground swell of popular conservative outlets against this?
- refurb 5y ago
  Don’t confuse political opportunism with core ideological beliefs.
refurb 5y ago
I mean you’d have to ignore the impact of unions over the last 50 years in the US to make that connection. I’ve been in a union and workers rights often aren’t the priority.

ATsch 5y ago

I think that question pretty much answers itself, especially if one looks at voting demographics by income. The idea of the republican working class party has always been more of a clever rhetorical strategy than a reality. (perhaps, on a more speculative note, also a reflection of the seemingly general conservative pattern of wanting to see oneself as "normal", to the point of sometimes fabricating "silent majorities" and such, even when there is overwhelming counter evidence)

refurb 5y ago
The idea of the republican working class party has always been more of a clever rhetorical strategy than a reality. I find this a funny criticism considered when Trump won a big swath of non-college graduates (presumably blue collar workers) he was ridiculed for having the “dumb” vote.
- Bilal_io 5y ago
  No, he was ridiculed for [loving] the dumb vote, because he said so. https://youtu.be/Vpdt7omPoa0 https://youtu.be/Vpdt7omPoa0
  - refurb 5y ago
    Well that was amazingly dishonest of you. He said he loves the “poorly educated”, he never said “dumb”, you did, which I think says more about you than Trump.
    - BoiledCabbage 5y ago
      That's incredibly dishonest of you. You introduced "dumb" as a euphemism for poorly educated. You did that in this discussion. The poster than quotes directly Trump saying he loves the poorly educated, and then you presumably feign being upset at the use of the word "dumb" that you introduced. That speaks volumes about you.
      - refurb 5y ago
        I didn't introduce "dumb". That's why I put in quotes, I was quoting what others had said. And regardless, clearly Bilal_io was accusing Trump of something negative or why else share that clip? He literally sad "Trump was ridiculed" and shared that clip. So he agrees Trump was ridiculed for loving the "uneducated vote", which was entirely my point. You either missed that or are intentionally trying to gaslight me.
        BoiledCabbage 5y ago
        > I was quoting what others had said. Then please share the quote from a legit source (and not joe schmo on the internet). And again, it's not clear if you know what you wrote. Bila_io didn't accuse Trump of something negative. You again said: > Trump won a big swath of non-college graduates (presumably blue collar workers) he was ridiculed for having the “dumb” vote. You specifically introduced Trump being ridiculed. Do you again not see that you introduced this concept to the discussion and yet are accusing the other person of doing it? You both wrote "dumb" and the concept of "ridicule" and are assigning responsibility to both of those to the person who responded to you. You introduced both of those in the context of Trump.
        refurb 5y ago
        Yup, you’re gaslighting. Google it, plenty of articles with headlines like this “Now there's proof: Trump's voters lack "cognitive sophistication," often believe Bible is literal word of God” https://www.salon.com/2022/03/23/new-research-on-voters-theyre-not-the-sharpest-tools-in-the-box/ https://www.salon.com/2022/03/23/new-research-on-voters-they... Or maybe "Trump Won Because Voters Are Ignorant, Literally" which includes "Donald Trump always enjoyed massive support from uneducated, low-information white people." https://foreignpolicy.com/2016/11/10/the-dance-of-the-dunces-trump-clinton-election-republican-democrat/ https://foreignpolicy.com/2016/11/10/the-dance-of-the-dunces... Happy to provide another dozen similar articles if you’d like. I introduced nothing. I quoted articles (like the above). Sure you can be pedantic and nitpick over “cognitive sophistication” or "low-information" or "ignorant", but you know exactly what they meant - "dumb". And what did Bila_io say? "No, he was ridiculed for [loving] the dumb vote, because he said so." I would read that as agreement that he was ridiculed for loving the "dumb" vote, the only argument being made was that Trump agreed they were "dumb" (which the clip doesn't support in the least). And if Bila_io wasn’t accusing Trump of something negative, what was the point of the reply? Just sharing a random clip for fun?
- kevin_thibedeau 5y ago
  It's a scheme for the wealthy who the party exclusively serves to win elections by pandering with negative messaging designed to appeal to the disaffected. They can't win seats as the party of big business and special interests.
rootusrootus 5y ago
> The idea of the republican working class party has always been more of a clever rhetorical strategy than a reality. I tend to agree, but then again I really don't grok the Trump thing, and I can't claim that I saw it coming or sticking around as long as it has. At this point I would not be terribly shocked to see a bit of role reversal between the two major parties.
- ATsch 5y ago
  I'm not completely sure what you mean, the 2016 votes leaned approximately democrat for <75k and and republican >75k like every other election in recent US history, although admittedly by a lower margin than the previous years. In 2020 it seems to have returned to a larger gap again.
- ARandomerDude 5y ago
  I've been a conservative since I had a minimum wage job, for one reason: I want the government out of my life as much as possible. I firmly believe nobody will care about my family as much as I do and I don't want the government's golden handcuffs. Leave me alone, let me work, and I'll happily live with whatever happens. I think this is the fundamental disconnect in left-right (economic) politics. The left, as I see it, wants some guarantee of a good outcome. The right wants liberty, recognizing that comes with risk.
  - irrational 5y ago
    That’s an awfully selfish outlook, isn’t it? Shouldn’t we be willing as a society to care for the poor and needy among us? So far every other group and organization has completely failed at that, except for government. I am happy to pay my taxes so that my government can take care of those who not as well off as I am.
  - mattwad 5y ago
    > I want the government out of my life as much as possible unless it has to do with your education, gender identity, sexual preference, religion, voting, or women's rights, I assume
zeruch 5y ago
"The idea of the republican working class party has always been more of a clever rhetorical strategy than a reality." Always? No. But certainly since the 1970s.
- Retric 5y ago
  Parties benefit from ideological inertia. I prefer small government that minimizes spending… So based on recent voting patterns, I vote Democrat.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - lliamander 5y ago
    Neither of the two parties represents anything close to a small-government platform.
    - Retric 5y ago
      I agree. So, the question is if you want lower spending etc, who do you vote for? It’s not obvious. Take a corporate tax loophole, is that spending and or a form of economic control? Foreign ownership of US companies compounds this, is it giving money to foreigners or good economic policy etc.
      - parineum 5y ago
        > Take a corporate tax loophole Tax policy you disagree with isn't a loophole.
        glitchc 5y ago
        Tax policy that benefits the select few instead of the country is a loophole.
        5y ago

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

jorblumesea 5y ago

> "if we're claiming to be the party of the working class, shouldn't we be in favor of this?" But they don't really mean it and have never meant it. The Republican party, at least in modern history, has never been pro working class in any real sense. The opposite in fact, probably far more hostile to working class than Democrats. Much of the "pro working class" rhetoric is largely just conservative values like abortion or region. Maybe a better way to phrase it is "pro rural white conservative working class values".

AnimalMuppet 5y ago
But they might mean it going forward. The parties realign - rarely, but not never. And there are a whole lot of voters who have been abandoned by the Democratic Party moving away from what it has been. It would not be impossible for the Republican Party to move into that territory. Of course, it is more likely for the Republican Party to talk like it's moving into that territory, but not actually do anything. But, for example, Trump's emphasis on "America over trade" is something that could actually help workers.
- Taikonerd 5y ago
  Exactly, and I think Ahmari's article was sort of laying down a challenge for his fellow Republicans: "are we going to talk about helping the working class, or are we going to do it?"
imwillofficial 5y ago
“ But they don't really mean it and have never meant it.” Ah reading millions of minds I see.
- dlp211 5y ago
  I don't care about what you believe, I care about what policy you enact, and Republican policy has been objectively anti-worker for my lifetime. So if you vote for Republicans, you are anti-worker.
- 5y ago

KennyBlanken 5y ago

The Republican party has always been pro "working class" in that their policies have been focused on trapping the "working class." Keep them poor, uneducated, easily manipulated, and powerless as a worker so they are easily exploited. Republicans hate social programs like welfare because it's so much easier to prey up on John Q Factory Worker when John is paycheck-to-paycheck and terrified of losing his job. Ditto for universal health insurance. With medical bills are the top cause of personal bankruptcy, tying a basic human need/right to employment is just yet another way they get to hold a workforce in fear.

sorry_outta_gas 5y ago

with the rise of the new generation of robber barons that's not suprising there will lots of change and crisis until things balance out

hnburnsy 5y ago

Marco Rubio came out in favor of the works at Amazon., last year he wrote: >Here’s my standard: When the conflict is between working Americans and a company whose leadership has decided to wage culture war against working-class values, the choice is easy — I support the workers. And that’s why I stand with those at Amazon’s Bessemer warehouse today. Was there a large ground swell of popular conservative outlets against this?

refurb 5y ago
Don’t confuse political opportunism with core ideological beliefs.

refurb 5y ago

I mean you’d have to ignore the impact of unions over the last 50 years in the US to make that connection. I’ve been in a union and workers rights often aren’t the priority.