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White working class boys in the UK are amongst the least likely to go to university in the UK, they don't have a privilege for being white. I think terms like

White working class boys in the UK are amongst the least likely to go to university in the UK, they don't have a privilege for being white. I think terms like white privilege drive resentment and are divisive. "In fact, a similar anger exists within segments of the white community. Most working- and middle-class white Americans don't feel that they have been particularly privileged by their race..." Barack Obama. https://constitutioncenter.org/amoreperfectunion/ https://constitutioncenter.org/amoreperfectunion/

matthewmacleod 5y ago
they don't have a privilege for being white. As a white (and formerly working class) boy from the UK, I can confidently say that nobody has at any point in my life discriminated against me on the basis of my ethnic background. That is the extent of what this expression means – it does not mean that any individual to whom it applied is in a superior position relative to others, but only that they do not suffer from disadvantage due to one specific thing. There is a stubborn desire to ignore this distinction, and the reason that these terms become divisive is because people are too often manipulated into misrepresenting them.
- heurisko 5y ago
  > it does not mean that any individual to whom it applied is in a superior position relative to others, but only that they do not suffer from disadvantage due to one specific thing. That's not the way it's taught to children. They're encouraged to think of their "privilege" entirely in terms of race, which determines whether they win or lose. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1I3wJ7pJUjg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1I3wJ7pJUjg > There is a stubborn desire to ignore this distinction Because the distinction isn't made.
- mlindner 5y ago
  The lack of having been discriminated against is by definition not a "privilege". What's wrong isn't the lack of discrimination, but the idea that lack of discrimination should be called a "privledge" rather than a "norm". It attacks people for not having hardship, namely turning something that's good int o something that's bad. The use of the term "white privledge" fundamentally applies that to make things "equal" we must discriminate against white people as much as we discriminate (as a society) against non-white people. Namely, bring people doing well down to the level of someone doing badly, rather than elevating the people doing poorly up to the level of "normal". It's a fundamentally bad phase to use.
  - a_shovel 5y ago
    Each sentence, though individually false, comes together to produce an overall point that is also false. A lack of a disadvantage others have is a privilege. The point of calling it a privilege is to emphasize that white people benefit from racism against other groups even when they don't do anything racist themselves. Benefitting knowingly from discrimination against others while doing nothing to end it is complicity. The term "privilege" is not an attack on white people, it is an attack on racism. It absolutely does not imply that we should bring down white people or be racist to them. Privilege will end when discrimination against non-white people ends. At least set up a monthly donation to an anti-racism organization, or something like that.
    - akomtu 5y ago
      The 'privilege' is just a trick to divide you and make you fight each other. If it was't black vs white, it would be a 'privilege' based on subtle shades of skin, hair, eyes or even height. Anything works to distract masses from the fact that the only real privilege is hereditary wealth. Having the right family name is The Privilege. It's unbelievable that the relatively smart people fail to see this elephant in the room and instead fall for that shallow and self contradictory "anti-racism" doctrine.
      - a_shovel 5y ago
        Hereditary wealth is, indeed, probably the greatest privilege, but it does nobody any good to pretend that it's the only one.
      - fleddr 5y ago
        Finally somebody gets it. The world is a global capitalistic classist system, not a racist one. That's how the cards get sorted.
  - colinmhayes 5y ago
    > the idea that lack of discrimination should be called a "privledge" rather than a "norm". But the lack of discrimination isn't the norm. It would definitely be nice if it was, but that's not the case. White people experiencing better general overall treatment by society compared to those in the same situation who are black is just a fact. Complaining that it causes reverse discrimination doesn't make that untrue.
- account42 5y ago
  The entire point of the term "white priviledge" is to justify discrimination on the basis of people's ethnic background.
  - Dylan16807 5y ago
    The point is to recognize discrimination.
    - autoexec 5y ago
      The fact is that everyone has a certain amount of "privilege" due to their membership to a group and the complex dynamics that exist between groups. There is no person who doesn't have a list of advantages and disadvantages compared to others. Understanding that, and that your experience will not always be what everyone's experience has been is all you need. Men get harsher sentences than women for the same crimes, but we don't really hear much about "female privilege". If you want to point out discrimination, you don't need any concept for "privilege". The problem was never that one group has something. The problem is that one group does not have something. It's the inequality that needs to be addressed, not the "privilege". Making blanket assumptions about people on the basis of their skin color is something we should be avoiding, not encouraging. Keep the focus on what needs to be solved and suddenly you avoid all the problems focusing on "white privilege" causes like resentment, defensiveness, blame, and guilt.
      - Dylan16807 5y ago
        > The fact is that everyone has a certain amount of "privilege" due to their membership to a group and the complex dynamics that exist between groups. There is no person who doesn't have a list of advantages and disadvantages compared to others. Understanding that, and that your experience will not always be what everyone's experience has been is all you need. It's really hard to get people to realize that, and to see the different types of things they benefit from silently. Do you have better suggestions to get people to notice? > Men get harsher sentences than women for the same crimes, but we don't really hear much about "female privilege". If you want to point out discrimination, you don't need any concept for "privilege". The problem was never that one group has something. The problem is that one group does not have something. It's the inequality that needs to be addressed, not the "privilege". People do talk about both sides, but you're right that they don't use "privilege" there. I think the word privilege is useful to point out when one group has a huge advantage over another, even when there are some advantages or 'advantages' going in either direction. > Making blanket assumptions about people on the basis of their skin color is something we should be avoiding, not encouraging. Keep the focus on what needs to be solved and suddenly you avoid all the problems focusing on "white privilege" causes like resentment, defensiveness, blame, and guilt. It's not really an assumption that if you're white you face a tiny fraction of the racism that a black person gets, for example. As far as defensiveness and guilt, etc... I feel like any language used to talk about this will get politicized and twisted that way.
gonzo41 5y ago
It sucks being poor regardless of race (I grew up poor in Australia, so pretty wealthy by some perspectives), but having to contend with race is an additional burden to those who are not white in predominately white countries because there's another difference for them to overcome. WRT the white working class boys, They are not being held back by terms like white privilege. They are being held back by the very white house of lords denying them opportunities. In an American context, how often do you hear about social policies to round up Canadians who overstay work visas in order to deport them?
OwlsParlay 5y ago
Do you think white people who lived during the time of segregation or redlining had white privilege? Because there's plenty of those people still living today. The kids shouting slurs at Ruby Bridges are still alive. Now yes, obviously white privilege is not the only axis of oppression and both in the UK and US class privilege is overlooked to a massive degree but pretending white privilege is a racist term is stupid.
- twofornone 5y ago
  >Do you think white people who lived during the time of segregation or redlining had white privilege Whites were 80-90% of the population during that time, assigning a vague notion of "privilege" to an entire race of people as a basis for reverse racism is not only useless, but misleading, because these "privileged" people were still in competition with other whites (and non-redlined minorities). The implication is that they collectively derived benefit from unfair rules against blacks, but frankly this is a dishonest assertion. >but pretending white privilege is a racist term is stupid. >Racist: discriminatory especially on the basis of race or religion You're playing wordgames to resolve the cognitive dissonance that comes with claiming to be anti-racist while using intrinsically racist terminology. Especially when the implication of "white privilege" is that there is an unfair advantage based on race which needs to be corrected based on race. Reverse racism is still racism, even if merriam-webster tries to redefine the term.
  - OwlsParlay 5y ago
    > Whites were 80-90% of the population during that time, assigning a vague notion of "privilege" to an entire race of people as a basis for reverse racism is not only useless, but misleading, because these "privileged" people were still in competition with other whites (and non-redlined minorities). The implication is that they collectively derived benefit from unfair rules against blacks, but frankly this is a dishonest assertion. They absolutlely did derive a collective benefit, i'm astounded anyone can deny this. Are you just ignorant of just how badly treated black people were compared to white people in that period?
    - 5y ago
Dylan16807 5y ago
Privilege is multidimensional, for crying out loud.
- fleddr 5y ago
  Which makes the term completely useless in everyday use.

matthewmacleod 5y ago

they don't have a privilege for being white. As a white (and formerly working class) boy from the UK, I can confidently say that nobody has at any point in my life discriminated against me on the basis of my ethnic background. That is the extent of what this expression means – it does not mean that any individual to whom it applied is in a superior position relative to others, but only that they do not suffer from disadvantage due to one specific thing. There is a stubborn desire to ignore this distinction, and the reason that these terms become divisive is because people are too often manipulated into misrepresenting them.

heurisko 5y ago
> it does not mean that any individual to whom it applied is in a superior position relative to others, but only that they do not suffer from disadvantage due to one specific thing. That's not the way it's taught to children. They're encouraged to think of their "privilege" entirely in terms of race, which determines whether they win or lose. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1I3wJ7pJUjg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1I3wJ7pJUjg > There is a stubborn desire to ignore this distinction Because the distinction isn't made.
mlindner 5y ago
The lack of having been discriminated against is by definition not a "privilege". What's wrong isn't the lack of discrimination, but the idea that lack of discrimination should be called a "privledge" rather than a "norm". It attacks people for not having hardship, namely turning something that's good int o something that's bad. The use of the term "white privledge" fundamentally applies that to make things "equal" we must discriminate against white people as much as we discriminate (as a society) against non-white people. Namely, bring people doing well down to the level of someone doing badly, rather than elevating the people doing poorly up to the level of "normal". It's a fundamentally bad phase to use.
- a_shovel 5y ago
  Each sentence, though individually false, comes together to produce an overall point that is also false. A lack of a disadvantage others have is a privilege. The point of calling it a privilege is to emphasize that white people benefit from racism against other groups even when they don't do anything racist themselves. Benefitting knowingly from discrimination against others while doing nothing to end it is complicity. The term "privilege" is not an attack on white people, it is an attack on racism. It absolutely does not imply that we should bring down white people or be racist to them. Privilege will end when discrimination against non-white people ends. At least set up a monthly donation to an anti-racism organization, or something like that.
  - akomtu 5y ago
    The 'privilege' is just a trick to divide you and make you fight each other. If it was't black vs white, it would be a 'privilege' based on subtle shades of skin, hair, eyes or even height. Anything works to distract masses from the fact that the only real privilege is hereditary wealth. Having the right family name is The Privilege. It's unbelievable that the relatively smart people fail to see this elephant in the room and instead fall for that shallow and self contradictory "anti-racism" doctrine.
    - a_shovel 5y ago
      Hereditary wealth is, indeed, probably the greatest privilege, but it does nobody any good to pretend that it's the only one.
    - fleddr 5y ago
      Finally somebody gets it. The world is a global capitalistic classist system, not a racist one. That's how the cards get sorted.
- colinmhayes 5y ago
  > the idea that lack of discrimination should be called a "privledge" rather than a "norm". But the lack of discrimination isn't the norm. It would definitely be nice if it was, but that's not the case. White people experiencing better general overall treatment by society compared to those in the same situation who are black is just a fact. Complaining that it causes reverse discrimination doesn't make that untrue.
account42 5y ago
The entire point of the term "white priviledge" is to justify discrimination on the basis of people's ethnic background.
- Dylan16807 5y ago
  The point is to recognize discrimination.
  - autoexec 5y ago
    The fact is that everyone has a certain amount of "privilege" due to their membership to a group and the complex dynamics that exist between groups. There is no person who doesn't have a list of advantages and disadvantages compared to others. Understanding that, and that your experience will not always be what everyone's experience has been is all you need. Men get harsher sentences than women for the same crimes, but we don't really hear much about "female privilege". If you want to point out discrimination, you don't need any concept for "privilege". The problem was never that one group has something. The problem is that one group does not have something. It's the inequality that needs to be addressed, not the "privilege". Making blanket assumptions about people on the basis of their skin color is something we should be avoiding, not encouraging. Keep the focus on what needs to be solved and suddenly you avoid all the problems focusing on "white privilege" causes like resentment, defensiveness, blame, and guilt.
    - Dylan16807 5y ago
      > The fact is that everyone has a certain amount of "privilege" due to their membership to a group and the complex dynamics that exist between groups. There is no person who doesn't have a list of advantages and disadvantages compared to others. Understanding that, and that your experience will not always be what everyone's experience has been is all you need. It's really hard to get people to realize that, and to see the different types of things they benefit from silently. Do you have better suggestions to get people to notice? > Men get harsher sentences than women for the same crimes, but we don't really hear much about "female privilege". If you want to point out discrimination, you don't need any concept for "privilege". The problem was never that one group has something. The problem is that one group does not have something. It's the inequality that needs to be addressed, not the "privilege". People do talk about both sides, but you're right that they don't use "privilege" there. I think the word privilege is useful to point out when one group has a huge advantage over another, even when there are some advantages or 'advantages' going in either direction. > Making blanket assumptions about people on the basis of their skin color is something we should be avoiding, not encouraging. Keep the focus on what needs to be solved and suddenly you avoid all the problems focusing on "white privilege" causes like resentment, defensiveness, blame, and guilt. It's not really an assumption that if you're white you face a tiny fraction of the racism that a black person gets, for example. As far as defensiveness and guilt, etc... I feel like any language used to talk about this will get politicized and twisted that way.

gonzo41 5y ago

It sucks being poor regardless of race (I grew up poor in Australia, so pretty wealthy by some perspectives), but having to contend with race is an additional burden to those who are not white in predominately white countries because there's another difference for them to overcome. WRT the white working class boys, They are not being held back by terms like white privilege. They are being held back by the very white house of lords denying them opportunities. In an American context, how often do you hear about social policies to round up Canadians who overstay work visas in order to deport them?

OwlsParlay 5y ago

Do you think white people who lived during the time of segregation or redlining had white privilege? Because there's plenty of those people still living today. The kids shouting slurs at Ruby Bridges are still alive. Now yes, obviously white privilege is not the only axis of oppression and both in the UK and US class privilege is overlooked to a massive degree but pretending white privilege is a racist term is stupid.

twofornone 5y ago
>Do you think white people who lived during the time of segregation or redlining had white privilege Whites were 80-90% of the population during that time, assigning a vague notion of "privilege" to an entire race of people as a basis for reverse racism is not only useless, but misleading, because these "privileged" people were still in competition with other whites (and non-redlined minorities). The implication is that they collectively derived benefit from unfair rules against blacks, but frankly this is a dishonest assertion. >but pretending white privilege is a racist term is stupid. >Racist: discriminatory especially on the basis of race or religion You're playing wordgames to resolve the cognitive dissonance that comes with claiming to be anti-racist while using intrinsically racist terminology. Especially when the implication of "white privilege" is that there is an unfair advantage based on race which needs to be corrected based on race. Reverse racism is still racism, even if merriam-webster tries to redefine the term.
- OwlsParlay 5y ago
  > Whites were 80-90% of the population during that time, assigning a vague notion of "privilege" to an entire race of people as a basis for reverse racism is not only useless, but misleading, because these "privileged" people were still in competition with other whites (and non-redlined minorities). The implication is that they collectively derived benefit from unfair rules against blacks, but frankly this is a dishonest assertion. They absolutlely did derive a collective benefit, i'm astounded anyone can deny this. Are you just ignorant of just how badly treated black people were compared to white people in that period?
  - 5y ago

Dylan16807 5y ago

Privilege is multidimensional, for crying out loud.

fleddr 5y ago
Which makes the term completely useless in everyday use.