11 ms·

Solar-powered robotic beekeeping

126 points by Jedd 5y ago

sgt 5y ago
Really cool - but this is not simple, is it? I mean, it is a really complex system if you think about it, down to the software even and cloud services.
DonArizona1985 5y ago
Very interesting design but its scary that this could put a lot of people out of jobs. The risk and the talent that goes for bee keeping will soon be a novelity that machines can easily do. Its kinda scary. But this is a brilliant invention.
jsiepkes 5y ago
Looks super interesting. I would love to see some reallife feedback. Such are the moving parts prone to jams and stuff like that.
- Gys 5y ago
  > We currently cater exclusively to the North American market. We plan on expanding our reach within the next few months. > We currently cater exclusively to Commercial Beekeepers managing 1,000 beehives and above. Genuine question: are you within their target market? I guess only a commercial honey maker would be?
  - jsiepkes 5y ago
    > Genuine question: are you within their target market? I guess only a commercial honey maker would be? No just interested in the technical side of the product. Though I would love to buy one with some friends and run it if they would ever start selling to consumers.
    - Gasp0de 5y ago
      Would you be willing to put out 40$/mo with your 10 friends though? The product seems super expensive in my (totally unprofessional) opinion.
      - jsiepkes 5y ago
        I would definitly be willing to invest in it. The idea would be to make it (atleast) a break-even operation eventually.
- unfocussed_mike 5y ago
  > Such are the moving parts prone to jams and stuff like that. They are probably prone to honey rather than jams. /jk Actually the question I most want answered is about materials and environments -- I know hives can start in all sorts of things, but I am wondering about bee health (physical/social) in the context of metal and plastic. Also their material preferences; do bees still need to be persuaded/cajoled to settle in an inorganic space when there might be wooden or brick structures in the vicinity? Are commercial hives already well past this point and using metal and plastics?
  - progre 5y ago
    Polystyrene hives are quite common. I'm sure plasic frames exist but I haven't seen them in use.
    - unfocussed_mike 5y ago
      I don't think I ever want to eat honey again.
      - unfocussed_mike 5y ago
        (Polystyrene sets my teeth on edge, is why -- I should have explained that better. Buzzing bees in polystyrene... nails on blackboard)
    - jmhobbs 5y ago
      I'd be surprised to find any commercial keepers using polystyrene. Migratory bee keeping is rough on equipment, and at scale I think woodenware still makes the most sense. I'm not in that community, but everything I see in Bee Culture and online looks like polystyrene is firmly in the hobbyist realm.
  - Jedd 5y ago
    Here in AU, most commercial hive operators are using very basic wooden hives - many aren't even using (metal) mesh bases, which are a common home-scale defence against things like Small Hive Beetle (SHB) because at scale it's a significant cost, both cap-ex and op-ex. In 2015, the Flow Hive guys broke all kinds of kickstarter records with their plastic frame / externally-harvestable hive, though we've had plastic frames around for a lot longer than that. The bees don't seem to mind, but the only metric we have are 'do they stick around?'. Given they're free to leave at any time if they don't like their home, that's a pretty reasonable measure. Before varroa were identified as one of the key causal factors of colony collapse, there were questions around whether the natural wax foundation, with its regular, and perhaps slightly under-sized cells, were part of the problem. Same question with plastic foundation / frames. Empirical evidence suggests that the kinds of high-quality plastic that's used in beehives isn't, so far as we can tell, part of the problem.
Gys 5y ago
A bit more small scale: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/hiive/hiive-better-for-bees https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/hiive/hiive-better-for-...
- arijun 5y ago
  This doesn't look like it does anything robotically, but is rather is supposed to be a "better manmade hive" (e.g. with insulation and a semi-permeable membrane). I am not equipped to evaluate that claim, or if their manufacture/delivery goals are possible, so I would probably wait until someone else weighed in.
  - Gys 5y ago
    Indeed no robotics, but it has sensors to monitor the inside environment and detect swarming (a beekeeping friend of mine said it important to see that, because you would want to 'catch' the swarm). The honey collection is manual, but seems much easier then in current beehives. Just to give an alternative modern take on beekeeping. The OP solution is only for people having 1000+ hives ;-) And neither I have any knowledge nor intention to keep bees.
- WaitWaitWha 5y ago
  Looks like skeps that were made taller?
- camtarn 5y ago
  This is really nice, and (to this non-beekeeper) looks like it was actually made by people familiar with beekeeping, unlike the original post.
drewm1980 5y ago
How does this control varoa? One of the arguments against domesticated honey bees is that they not only take food from but also spread disease to wild honey bee populations. The more diseased the domestic ated bees get the more hives keepers build to compensate, compounding the problem.
- catmanjan 5y ago
  According to the link "They constantly monitor pests within the hive and apply non-chemical treatment where needed"
  - drewm1980 5y ago
    Yup. That vagueness is why I asked.
- seanc 5y ago
  In the FAQ they say they heat the frame to a temperature which "harms the varroa but does not harm the brood". IANABK, but color me skeptical.
  - jmhobbs 5y ago
    That sounded dodgy to me but it does look like it's got some legitimacy: https://scientificbeekeeping.com/a-test-of-thermal-treatment-for-varroa-part-1/ https://scientificbeekeeping.com/a-test-of-thermal-treatment... I mostly use oxalic acid, but if heat treating becomes viable I'd welcome it on the hobbyist scale.
franciscop 5y ago
I have no idea about beekeeping economies, could someone shed a bit of light here please? At $2000 shipping + $400/month it seems expensive, but it claims 24 colonies which seems like a lot, so how much does a colony produce per year? How much should it produce to make it worth this investment?
- vitro 5y ago
  I guess you cannot calculate only a produce of those bees. Trees and flowers pollinated are a significant "side effect" that we neef for our survival.
  - franciscop 5y ago
    I assumed this would be a commercial application in the vast majority of cases, where I'm from we don't have a bee problem so it didn't occur to me that this could be setup from a charity just for the wellbeing of the bees.
  - conjectures 5y ago
    Moloch cares not for trees and flowers.
- onlyrealcuzzo 5y ago
  1. Hives rent for $40-$200 per month. 2. A well maintained hive can easily double in size over a single season ($150). 3. A hive can easily produce 25 lbs of honey in a single season ($125 wholesale, or $250+ direct). If it can really manage 24 colonies extremely well, $16 per colony per month is NOTHING.
headsoup 5y ago
I think the concern with this is that it seems to treat the hive as a machine and not a variable natural system. What does it do to bee evolution to take away their instincts and ability to self-regulate their hive ? What impact does that have on how the bees measure the inside and outside environment? It would be interesting to know what the non-chemical mite treatments are. Most are mechanical, so I can only imagine it applies powdered sugar or removes drone brood or something? I also hope it leaves a substantial mass of honey in the hive so the bees have sufficient sustenance over winter and into spring so sugar water is not needed. There's already too much interference without understanding in the bee industry, automating things is only going to eventually reduce knowledge much further, but I can appreciate the goals and effort at least.
- darkwater 5y ago
  > What does it do to bee evolution to take away their instincts and ability to self-regulate their hive ? What impact does that have on how the bees measure the inside and outside environment? Wouldn't this take at least a few centuries of continued use to actually change something via evolution? Unless all your bees are dead in 2 years, obviously.
  - onlyrealcuzzo 5y ago
    Bees only life 2-4x longer than fruit flies, and fruit flies "evolve" resistance to stressors in 8-9 generations (a month). So I'm not sure why bees couldn't have some minor changes within a year. But I'm also skeptical that's inherently a bad thing.
    - i_cannot_hack 5y ago
      A generation of bees is defined by the procreation of colonies / queens, not the life of individual worker bees, since they are eusocial. The queen bee lives for 3-4 years, and establishment of new colonies (swarming) can happen around once a year. I would guess 9 generations of bees would probably be 9 years at a minimum.
Gasp0de 5y ago
So according to Google one Beehive can produce 20-30kg of honey per year. For the 24 beehives in this machine that would be 720kg of honey max, selling for around 10€ per kg in Germany. That would make a maximum of 7200€ in one year, while the machine costs 4800$/year plus 2000 for delivery in the first year. Additionally, the Beekeeper has to retrieve, package and sell the honey. I don't see this machine reaching profitability, even if it would mean no work whatsoever for the beekeeper.
- freemint 5y ago
  This seems to be target for people who runs agricultural farms which need bees for their other modes of profit.
  - giantg2 5y ago
    Maybe. Usually they contract out pollination. The cost of this machine seems to still make that more feasible. If it's a big monocrop place, then it probably still makes sense to contract pollination because you only need it for a short period during the year. You likely couldn't harvest any or much honey in the large monocrop fields because they would need that honey to support themselves the rest of the year when the monocrop is not flowering (or you'd heavily feed them). Smaller places, like local orchards, could maybe benefit, but only if they're willing/able to process and sell their own honey. Many small places can currently partner with beekeepers for little to no money. In some cases, beekeepers will even pay the orchard owners (usually in honey) for being able to place the hives there. So maybe the orchard could make a little extra profit. But it seems this machine costs money on a yearly basis. This could create a huge liability if you have a bad year.
- femto 5y ago
  Beekeepers also make money by renting out hives for pollination? Edit: Found an interesting article: https://theconversation.com/the-farmer-wants-a-hive-inside-the-world-of-renting-bees-94904 https://theconversation.com/the-farmer-wants-a-hive-inside-t... To quote: "Alternatively, crop growers can buy their own hives and set them up permanently, eliminating the cost of rental and reducing the pressure on honeybees used for pollination services. However, this comes at its own cost. Growers need to maintain the beehives themselves or hire a beekeeper to do it." It seems like this robot may be aimed at farmers who want their own hives for pollination purposes, but also don't want the burden of looking after them?
progre 5y ago
Sidetrack: I think the focus on domesticated bees as pollinators is dangerous. If wild polinators can't survive we are fucked even if we have bees.
- mstipetic 5y ago
  We are fucked anyways. In my area we just had no rain for more than a month (where usually there should be 12 rainy days) with basically drought coming - nobody even noticed, they were busy with more important things I guess
  - adamdusty 5y ago
    Local weather stories hardly mean we're fucked. It snowed and hailed in Tucson yesterday. Does that mean we're all saved?
    - notum 5y ago
      Why yes, yes it does. Thank you sweet baby Jesus! I'm off to grab a candy bar from my bug-out bag.
    - mstipetic 5y ago
      It's not about the weather, it's about how detached we are from the world
      - adamdusty 5y ago
        Ah, okay. I misinterpreted what you were saying.
    - msrenee 5y ago
      They are definitely an indication of where we're headed if it's been a trend. Is this the first dry March in a while or the dryest March in a series of gradual dryer ones over the poster's lifetime?
- HideousKojima 5y ago
ct0 5y ago
Im surprised this isnt getting the same level of push back as the flowhive did in bee keeping communities. The flowhive simply makes extracting honey easier, you can literally leave the flowhive on the brood box and pour out honey. Its very nice for someone who doesnt want to pull frames and use an extractor, which is tough work. People would say its not real bee keeping and worried about spreading problems to other colonies. This "does" everything but I am confident it can't replace a real bee keeper somewhere in the chain. Ive had issues with hives that are unrelated to pests that have slowed down the production of brood, for example a new queen mated but never started laying eggs. Would this device notify the land owner of that? Most likely not.
- 0des 5y ago
  The main criticism I remember of the flowhive was that it increases chances of infection and can destroy the cells of the frames. I have no experience with this hive, that's just the common criticisms I remember from the time.
boredumb 5y ago
The price tag is quite steep, but I really do love the idea and hope that more technology and thought is put into beekeeping. For anyone on the fence about raising bees, just do it - it was one of my favorite projects I've had the opportunity to participate in and is one of the most fascinating things to witness up close.
clutchdude 5y ago
Beekeeper here - Video didn't show many of the aspects a beekeeper has to deal with. "Beehomes use A.I. to identify when a colony could be preparing to swarm, and automatically prevents this event by adjusting conditions. Beekeepers can rest assured that the Beehome has their colonies stay put while they focus on other responsibilities." doesn't sell it. Bees are livestock, not programs. They sometimes decide that it's time to move on no matter what you do. It doesn't show how inspections are done nor how many frames or frametypes are used. It doesn't show how frame rotation is done(necessary every few years) or what happens when you have a dead out. How would you introduce a new queen or perform splits? I'm also not sold on their "prevention" > How does Beehome deal with pests? > > The ones that are visible with the naked eye, like Varroa, are detected by the robot in real-time, and treatment is applied accordingly. Others are identified by the damage they leave, and then treatment is applied accordingly. > Does Beehome use/apply pesticides? > No; the robot treats for pests using a heating mechanism. The robot heats frames to a point where it harms the pests (Varroa) but does not harm the bees’ brood. I glanced over a paper on hyperthermic and I'd have concerns regarding nurse bee viability after being subjected to that temps, even if brood are not seeing mortality. Meanwhile, we have extremely effective treatments for varroa that show little impact on brood/bees - See Randy Oliver. I could go on and on but tldr; This product handwaves away almost all of the work a beekeeper does without actually showing how it performs those tasks. I'd have extremely low confidence in it until a production length video of each aspect of a beekeepers job is produced and walked through with the Beewise.
- simonebrunozzi 5y ago
  > I'd have extremely low confidence in it until a production length video of each aspect of a beekeepers job is produced and walked through with the Beewise. I know a bit about bee-keeping (did it with my father for ~15 years). I'd agree with you, but perhaps they don't feel ready to openly share too much, for fear of competition. Not a great idea, but this might be the reason why you don't see much in their material.
  - clutchdude 5y ago
    From what I'm reading, most of their IP is in the tech side. AI and other stuff. Showing me how to clean, manage and use their product shouldn't be the secret sauce because they're otherwise relying on a quick market saturation before someone catches up.
londons_explore 5y ago
What impact does humans having beehives have on wild/natural colonies? When there are only so many flowers to go around, keeping bees might just be a disguised way to destroy natural bees.
- uticus 5y ago
  intrigued by question. i honestly do not know, but can add for context that it is not unheard of in my area (temperate woodland) to have a dozen or more hives cohabiting the same acre. of course the bees are not confined to the acre, but my point is, if competition were a concern, perhaps a counterpoint is how would so many hives in one acre be sustainable? additionally, many of the colonies are from local swarms. granted, who knows what genetic backgrounds are, but they are "wild" in contemporary terms. additionally, commercial operations make good money because there are too many flowering things to go around. would be interested in hearing counterpoints to my counterpoints, genuinely intrigued by question & implications
- berkes 5y ago
  This is only partly true. And context matters a lot too. For one, pollination causes better seed production. So better pollination, means more flowering plants, so more food for insects next season. It's studied (I cannot find the paper, it was a German study, that's all I remember) where a very "poor" area (farmland and production-forests reclaimed as diverse nature) did had much more insects, much faster, on the side where honeybees were kept, than on the side where they weren't, due to the honeybees "creating" flowering plants for other insects to eat from too. But I've also read a study from the Netherlands which is now often used by nature-management to ban honeybee-colonies from nature areas due to them competing against more endangered insects in those areas. It's nature. It depends.
agumonkey 5y ago
Is there a field of low tech, low impact robo-electro-wildlife caretaking ? if that make sense. Instead of having large flattened areas that can be used with tractors, having more eco friendly natural spaces, with tiny roombas/rovers that can attends, surveil, monitor the state of things 24/7.
- amelius 5y ago
  I think people do it for fun. Why automate the fun work?
  - agumonkey 5y ago
    On a smaller scale why not. I attend the forest nearby at times, neighbors do it even more often .. but we can't ensure good care of a whole field set. Even if there were large social efforts for people to gather and maintain nature, we'd still be at the mercy of pest / insects / microscopic life acting at night.
    - amelius 5y ago
      Tech in this field is going very fast. See e.g. [1]. Deep learning can be adapted easily to various tasks. [1] https://robomechjournal.springeropen.com/articles/10.1186/s40648-019-0141-2 https://robomechjournal.springeropen.com/articles/10.1186/s4...
      - agumonkey 5y ago
        thanks a lot ps: I was also thinking about monitoring fungi, microbes etc. (and the usual temp, humidity, acidity)
kortex 5y ago
Not a beek, but I'm close friends with some, and might actually take the plunge this year. This looks like a classic case of "automating the wrong way" and thinking in terms of agents instead of tools (force multipliers). What beekeepers really benefit from are tools that let them do more work with less effort. Hive lifters are a perfect example [1]. The most popular design has a couple of mechanical flaws that can lead to buckling, and the hand winch is kind of a pain to use with really heavy supers. That's the real kind of innovation the field would benefit from. Another is logistics. Schlepping around hive boxes, sugar water, tools, supplies, through loose farm mud, is a real hassle. Tractors are expensive and not really maneuverable. A "farm tug" would be crazy useful - something like an electric wheelbarrow (which exists) but a more generic/modular form factor. 1 - https://beehivelifters.com/product/beehive-lifter-manual-2-wheels/ https://beehivelifters.com/product/beehive-lifter-manual-2-w...
- reportgunner 5y ago
  What about this[0] approach ? [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ItlOFLTUAs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ItlOFLTUAs
- jpm_sd 5y ago
  I'm an electro-mechanical engineer unfamiliar with small farms. How would you change this type of design to be more modular or adaptable? https://www.overlandcarts.com/ https://www.overlandcarts.com/
  - casselc 5y ago
    Not who you asked, but as someone interested in small/hobby farm equipment to enable a couple people to do more work, more efficiently: The actual products seem nice and they have a variety of things that would be useful to us. I’d like to be able to buy a common flatbed lifting/dumping platform at about half those prices and be able to separately purchase and easily swap out the various wheelbarrow and garden/utility wagon bases. Ability to upgrade/replace motor and batteries. Ability to use the platform for additional powered implements like spreaders, seed drills, flail mower, auger, etc I’d like to be able to operate it in either a push-in-front (wheelbarrow) or pull-behind (wagon) fashion and for the drive and steering controls to work well in both cases. Stretch goals: a low speed follow-me mode with basic obstacle detection/avoidance. A go-to-programmed-location-and-come-back-wherever-here-is mode, optionally dumping or waiting for interaction at the other end.
giantg2 5y ago
It sounds really cool/powerful. Also sounds like it kills the joy of beekeeping.
- kyle_martin1 5y ago
DonHopkins 5y ago
How about enabling the bees to collectively walk their robotic bee hive around on its legs, kind of like how this goldfish controlled robot works -- "Just Keep Swimming": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GDgmP1ac_A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GDgmP1ac_A Or less bee-enabling and more bee-exploitive: BeeCopter is TacoCopter for Honey: delivering hive-fresh honey to your picnic or garden breakfast table by flying in live bee hives via drones! https://tacocopter.com/ https://tacocopter.com/ >On the East Coast? Try LobsterCopter -- "Taco Of The East!" https://www.huffpost.com/entry/tacocopter-startup-delivers-tacos-by-unmanned-drone-helicopter_n_1375842 https://www.huffpost.com/entry/tacocopter-startup-delivers-t... >Tacocopter Aims To Deliver Tacos Using Unmanned Drone Helicopters >(As for the worry that these tacocopters could eliminate delivery jobs: "I don't think that's what tacocopters really stand for," [Star] Simpson said. "But it's certainly the sort of robophobia we've lived with for a long time.")
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
criddell 5y ago
Why honeybees? It seems like of all the bees out there, honeybees get all the attention. In North America, wouldn't it be better to encourage bee keeping of the species that are native to the region?
- jmhobbs 5y ago
  Honey bees are the easiest to manage really. Some other bees are raised for pollination, but honey bees have a long history of management and semi-domestication. We already know how to raise and manage big colonies for migratory pollination.
Kerrick 5y ago
When I was getting into commercial honey production on a small scale for my farm over the last year or so, I looked into Beewise quite closely. Unfortunately, they don't do small scale. From their FAQ: > We currently cater exclusively to Commercial Beekeepers managing 1,000 beehives and above.
natenatenate3 5y ago
My Uncle uses hives like these, they aren't great for a commercial setup, but they are very nice to work with and manage the bees in. https://horizontalhive.com/how-to-build/layens-beehive-design.shtml https://horizontalhive.com/how-to-build/layens-beehive-desig...

126 points by Jedd 5y ago

sgt 5y ago

Really cool - but this is not simple, is it? I mean, it is a really complex system if you think about it, down to the software even and cloud services.

DonArizona1985 5y ago

Very interesting design but its scary that this could put a lot of people out of jobs. The risk and the talent that goes for bee keeping will soon be a novelity that machines can easily do. Its kinda scary. But this is a brilliant invention.

jsiepkes 5y ago

Looks super interesting. I would love to see some reallife feedback. Such are the moving parts prone to jams and stuff like that.

Gys 5y ago
> We currently cater exclusively to the North American market. We plan on expanding our reach within the next few months. > We currently cater exclusively to Commercial Beekeepers managing 1,000 beehives and above. Genuine question: are you within their target market? I guess only a commercial honey maker would be?
- jsiepkes 5y ago
  > Genuine question: are you within their target market? I guess only a commercial honey maker would be? No just interested in the technical side of the product. Though I would love to buy one with some friends and run it if they would ever start selling to consumers.
  - Gasp0de 5y ago
    Would you be willing to put out 40$/mo with your 10 friends though? The product seems super expensive in my (totally unprofessional) opinion.
    - jsiepkes 5y ago
      I would definitly be willing to invest in it. The idea would be to make it (atleast) a break-even operation eventually.
unfocussed_mike 5y ago
> Such are the moving parts prone to jams and stuff like that. They are probably prone to honey rather than jams. /jk Actually the question I most want answered is about materials and environments -- I know hives can start in all sorts of things, but I am wondering about bee health (physical/social) in the context of metal and plastic. Also their material preferences; do bees still need to be persuaded/cajoled to settle in an inorganic space when there might be wooden or brick structures in the vicinity? Are commercial hives already well past this point and using metal and plastics?
- progre 5y ago
  Polystyrene hives are quite common. I'm sure plasic frames exist but I haven't seen them in use.
  - unfocussed_mike 5y ago
    I don't think I ever want to eat honey again.
    - unfocussed_mike 5y ago
      (Polystyrene sets my teeth on edge, is why -- I should have explained that better. Buzzing bees in polystyrene... nails on blackboard)
  - jmhobbs 5y ago
    I'd be surprised to find any commercial keepers using polystyrene. Migratory bee keeping is rough on equipment, and at scale I think woodenware still makes the most sense. I'm not in that community, but everything I see in Bee Culture and online looks like polystyrene is firmly in the hobbyist realm.
- Jedd 5y ago
  Here in AU, most commercial hive operators are using very basic wooden hives - many aren't even using (metal) mesh bases, which are a common home-scale defence against things like Small Hive Beetle (SHB) because at scale it's a significant cost, both cap-ex and op-ex. In 2015, the Flow Hive guys broke all kinds of kickstarter records with their plastic frame / externally-harvestable hive, though we've had plastic frames around for a lot longer than that. The bees don't seem to mind, but the only metric we have are 'do they stick around?'. Given they're free to leave at any time if they don't like their home, that's a pretty reasonable measure. Before varroa were identified as one of the key causal factors of colony collapse, there were questions around whether the natural wax foundation, with its regular, and perhaps slightly under-sized cells, were part of the problem. Same question with plastic foundation / frames. Empirical evidence suggests that the kinds of high-quality plastic that's used in beehives isn't, so far as we can tell, part of the problem.

Gys 5y ago

A bit more small scale: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/hiive/hiive-better-for-bees https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/hiive/hiive-better-for-...

arijun 5y ago
This doesn't look like it does anything robotically, but is rather is supposed to be a "better manmade hive" (e.g. with insulation and a semi-permeable membrane). I am not equipped to evaluate that claim, or if their manufacture/delivery goals are possible, so I would probably wait until someone else weighed in.
- Gys 5y ago
  Indeed no robotics, but it has sensors to monitor the inside environment and detect swarming (a beekeeping friend of mine said it important to see that, because you would want to 'catch' the swarm). The honey collection is manual, but seems much easier then in current beehives. Just to give an alternative modern take on beekeeping. The OP solution is only for people having 1000+ hives ;-) And neither I have any knowledge nor intention to keep bees.
WaitWaitWha 5y ago
Looks like skeps that were made taller?
camtarn 5y ago
This is really nice, and (to this non-beekeeper) looks like it was actually made by people familiar with beekeeping, unlike the original post.

drewm1980 5y ago

How does this control varoa? One of the arguments against domesticated honey bees is that they not only take food from but also spread disease to wild honey bee populations. The more diseased the domestic ated bees get the more hives keepers build to compensate, compounding the problem.

catmanjan 5y ago
According to the link "They constantly monitor pests within the hive and apply non-chemical treatment where needed"
- drewm1980 5y ago
  Yup. That vagueness is why I asked.
seanc 5y ago
In the FAQ they say they heat the frame to a temperature which "harms the varroa but does not harm the brood". IANABK, but color me skeptical.
- jmhobbs 5y ago
  That sounded dodgy to me but it does look like it's got some legitimacy: https://scientificbeekeeping.com/a-test-of-thermal-treatment-for-varroa-part-1/ https://scientificbeekeeping.com/a-test-of-thermal-treatment... I mostly use oxalic acid, but if heat treating becomes viable I'd welcome it on the hobbyist scale.

franciscop 5y ago

I have no idea about beekeeping economies, could someone shed a bit of light here please? At $2000 shipping + $400/month it seems expensive, but it claims 24 colonies which seems like a lot, so how much does a colony produce per year? How much should it produce to make it worth this investment?

vitro 5y ago
I guess you cannot calculate only a produce of those bees. Trees and flowers pollinated are a significant "side effect" that we neef for our survival.
- franciscop 5y ago
  I assumed this would be a commercial application in the vast majority of cases, where I'm from we don't have a bee problem so it didn't occur to me that this could be setup from a charity just for the wellbeing of the bees.
- conjectures 5y ago
  Moloch cares not for trees and flowers.
onlyrealcuzzo 5y ago
1. Hives rent for $40-$200 per month. 2. A well maintained hive can easily double in size over a single season ($150). 3. A hive can easily produce 25 lbs of honey in a single season ($125 wholesale, or $250+ direct). If it can really manage 24 colonies extremely well, $16 per colony per month is NOTHING.

headsoup 5y ago

I think the concern with this is that it seems to treat the hive as a machine and not a variable natural system. What does it do to bee evolution to take away their instincts and ability to self-regulate their hive ? What impact does that have on how the bees measure the inside and outside environment? It would be interesting to know what the non-chemical mite treatments are. Most are mechanical, so I can only imagine it applies powdered sugar or removes drone brood or something? I also hope it leaves a substantial mass of honey in the hive so the bees have sufficient sustenance over winter and into spring so sugar water is not needed. There's already too much interference without understanding in the bee industry, automating things is only going to eventually reduce knowledge much further, but I can appreciate the goals and effort at least.

darkwater 5y ago
> What does it do to bee evolution to take away their instincts and ability to self-regulate their hive ? What impact does that have on how the bees measure the inside and outside environment? Wouldn't this take at least a few centuries of continued use to actually change something via evolution? Unless all your bees are dead in 2 years, obviously.
- onlyrealcuzzo 5y ago
  Bees only life 2-4x longer than fruit flies, and fruit flies "evolve" resistance to stressors in 8-9 generations (a month). So I'm not sure why bees couldn't have some minor changes within a year. But I'm also skeptical that's inherently a bad thing.
  - i_cannot_hack 5y ago
    A generation of bees is defined by the procreation of colonies / queens, not the life of individual worker bees, since they are eusocial. The queen bee lives for 3-4 years, and establishment of new colonies (swarming) can happen around once a year. I would guess 9 generations of bees would probably be 9 years at a minimum.

Gasp0de 5y ago

So according to Google one Beehive can produce 20-30kg of honey per year. For the 24 beehives in this machine that would be 720kg of honey max, selling for around 10€ per kg in Germany. That would make a maximum of 7200€ in one year, while the machine costs 4800$/year plus 2000 for delivery in the first year. Additionally, the Beekeeper has to retrieve, package and sell the honey. I don't see this machine reaching profitability, even if it would mean no work whatsoever for the beekeeper.

freemint 5y ago
This seems to be target for people who runs agricultural farms which need bees for their other modes of profit.
- giantg2 5y ago
  Maybe. Usually they contract out pollination. The cost of this machine seems to still make that more feasible. If it's a big monocrop place, then it probably still makes sense to contract pollination because you only need it for a short period during the year. You likely couldn't harvest any or much honey in the large monocrop fields because they would need that honey to support themselves the rest of the year when the monocrop is not flowering (or you'd heavily feed them). Smaller places, like local orchards, could maybe benefit, but only if they're willing/able to process and sell their own honey. Many small places can currently partner with beekeepers for little to no money. In some cases, beekeepers will even pay the orchard owners (usually in honey) for being able to place the hives there. So maybe the orchard could make a little extra profit. But it seems this machine costs money on a yearly basis. This could create a huge liability if you have a bad year.
femto 5y ago
Beekeepers also make money by renting out hives for pollination? Edit: Found an interesting article: https://theconversation.com/the-farmer-wants-a-hive-inside-the-world-of-renting-bees-94904 https://theconversation.com/the-farmer-wants-a-hive-inside-t... To quote: "Alternatively, crop growers can buy their own hives and set them up permanently, eliminating the cost of rental and reducing the pressure on honeybees used for pollination services. However, this comes at its own cost. Growers need to maintain the beehives themselves or hire a beekeeper to do it." It seems like this robot may be aimed at farmers who want their own hives for pollination purposes, but also don't want the burden of looking after them?

progre 5y ago

Sidetrack: I think the focus on domesticated bees as pollinators is dangerous. If wild polinators can't survive we are fucked even if we have bees.

mstipetic 5y ago
We are fucked anyways. In my area we just had no rain for more than a month (where usually there should be 12 rainy days) with basically drought coming - nobody even noticed, they were busy with more important things I guess
- adamdusty 5y ago
  Local weather stories hardly mean we're fucked. It snowed and hailed in Tucson yesterday. Does that mean we're all saved?
  - notum 5y ago
    Why yes, yes it does. Thank you sweet baby Jesus! I'm off to grab a candy bar from my bug-out bag.
  - mstipetic 5y ago
    It's not about the weather, it's about how detached we are from the world
    - adamdusty 5y ago
      Ah, okay. I misinterpreted what you were saying.
  - msrenee 5y ago
    They are definitely an indication of where we're headed if it's been a trend. Is this the first dry March in a while or the dryest March in a series of gradual dryer ones over the poster's lifetime?
HideousKojima 5y ago

ct0 5y ago

Im surprised this isnt getting the same level of push back as the flowhive did in bee keeping communities. The flowhive simply makes extracting honey easier, you can literally leave the flowhive on the brood box and pour out honey. Its very nice for someone who doesnt want to pull frames and use an extractor, which is tough work. People would say its not real bee keeping and worried about spreading problems to other colonies. This "does" everything but I am confident it can't replace a real bee keeper somewhere in the chain. Ive had issues with hives that are unrelated to pests that have slowed down the production of brood, for example a new queen mated but never started laying eggs. Would this device notify the land owner of that? Most likely not.

0des 5y ago
The main criticism I remember of the flowhive was that it increases chances of infection and can destroy the cells of the frames. I have no experience with this hive, that's just the common criticisms I remember from the time.

boredumb 5y ago

The price tag is quite steep, but I really do love the idea and hope that more technology and thought is put into beekeeping. For anyone on the fence about raising bees, just do it - it was one of my favorite projects I've had the opportunity to participate in and is one of the most fascinating things to witness up close.

clutchdude 5y ago

Beekeeper here - Video didn't show many of the aspects a beekeeper has to deal with. "Beehomes use A.I. to identify when a colony could be preparing to swarm, and automatically prevents this event by adjusting conditions. Beekeepers can rest assured that the Beehome has their colonies stay put while they focus on other responsibilities." doesn't sell it. Bees are livestock, not programs. They sometimes decide that it's time to move on no matter what you do. It doesn't show how inspections are done nor how many frames or frametypes are used. It doesn't show how frame rotation is done(necessary every few years) or what happens when you have a dead out. How would you introduce a new queen or perform splits? I'm also not sold on their "prevention" > How does Beehome deal with pests? > > The ones that are visible with the naked eye, like Varroa, are detected by the robot in real-time, and treatment is applied accordingly. Others are identified by the damage they leave, and then treatment is applied accordingly. > Does Beehome use/apply pesticides? > No; the robot treats for pests using a heating mechanism. The robot heats frames to a point where it harms the pests (Varroa) but does not harm the bees’ brood. I glanced over a paper on hyperthermic and I'd have concerns regarding nurse bee viability after being subjected to that temps, even if brood are not seeing mortality. Meanwhile, we have extremely effective treatments for varroa that show little impact on brood/bees - See Randy Oliver. I could go on and on but tldr; This product handwaves away almost all of the work a beekeeper does without actually showing how it performs those tasks. I'd have extremely low confidence in it until a production length video of each aspect of a beekeepers job is produced and walked through with the Beewise.

simonebrunozzi 5y ago
> I'd have extremely low confidence in it until a production length video of each aspect of a beekeepers job is produced and walked through with the Beewise. I know a bit about bee-keeping (did it with my father for ~15 years). I'd agree with you, but perhaps they don't feel ready to openly share too much, for fear of competition. Not a great idea, but this might be the reason why you don't see much in their material.
- clutchdude 5y ago
  From what I'm reading, most of their IP is in the tech side. AI and other stuff. Showing me how to clean, manage and use their product shouldn't be the secret sauce because they're otherwise relying on a quick market saturation before someone catches up.

londons_explore 5y ago

What impact does humans having beehives have on wild/natural colonies? When there are only so many flowers to go around, keeping bees might just be a disguised way to destroy natural bees.

uticus 5y ago
intrigued by question. i honestly do not know, but can add for context that it is not unheard of in my area (temperate woodland) to have a dozen or more hives cohabiting the same acre. of course the bees are not confined to the acre, but my point is, if competition were a concern, perhaps a counterpoint is how would so many hives in one acre be sustainable? additionally, many of the colonies are from local swarms. granted, who knows what genetic backgrounds are, but they are "wild" in contemporary terms. additionally, commercial operations make good money because there are too many flowering things to go around. would be interested in hearing counterpoints to my counterpoints, genuinely intrigued by question & implications
berkes 5y ago
This is only partly true. And context matters a lot too. For one, pollination causes better seed production. So better pollination, means more flowering plants, so more food for insects next season. It's studied (I cannot find the paper, it was a German study, that's all I remember) where a very "poor" area (farmland and production-forests reclaimed as diverse nature) did had much more insects, much faster, on the side where honeybees were kept, than on the side where they weren't, due to the honeybees "creating" flowering plants for other insects to eat from too. But I've also read a study from the Netherlands which is now often used by nature-management to ban honeybee-colonies from nature areas due to them competing against more endangered insects in those areas. It's nature. It depends.

agumonkey 5y ago

Is there a field of low tech, low impact robo-electro-wildlife caretaking ? if that make sense. Instead of having large flattened areas that can be used with tractors, having more eco friendly natural spaces, with tiny roombas/rovers that can attends, surveil, monitor the state of things 24/7.

amelius 5y ago
I think people do it for fun. Why automate the fun work?
- agumonkey 5y ago
  On a smaller scale why not. I attend the forest nearby at times, neighbors do it even more often .. but we can't ensure good care of a whole field set. Even if there were large social efforts for people to gather and maintain nature, we'd still be at the mercy of pest / insects / microscopic life acting at night.
  - amelius 5y ago
    Tech in this field is going very fast. See e.g. [1]. Deep learning can be adapted easily to various tasks. [1] https://robomechjournal.springeropen.com/articles/10.1186/s40648-019-0141-2 https://robomechjournal.springeropen.com/articles/10.1186/s4...
    - agumonkey 5y ago
      thanks a lot ps: I was also thinking about monitoring fungi, microbes etc. (and the usual temp, humidity, acidity)

kortex 5y ago

Not a beek, but I'm close friends with some, and might actually take the plunge this year. This looks like a classic case of "automating the wrong way" and thinking in terms of agents instead of tools (force multipliers). What beekeepers really benefit from are tools that let them do more work with less effort. Hive lifters are a perfect example [1]. The most popular design has a couple of mechanical flaws that can lead to buckling, and the hand winch is kind of a pain to use with really heavy supers. That's the real kind of innovation the field would benefit from. Another is logistics. Schlepping around hive boxes, sugar water, tools, supplies, through loose farm mud, is a real hassle. Tractors are expensive and not really maneuverable. A "farm tug" would be crazy useful - something like an electric wheelbarrow (which exists) but a more generic/modular form factor. 1 - https://beehivelifters.com/product/beehive-lifter-manual-2-wheels/ https://beehivelifters.com/product/beehive-lifter-manual-2-w...

reportgunner 5y ago
What about this[0] approach ? [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ItlOFLTUAs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ItlOFLTUAs
jpm_sd 5y ago
I'm an electro-mechanical engineer unfamiliar with small farms. How would you change this type of design to be more modular or adaptable? https://www.overlandcarts.com/ https://www.overlandcarts.com/
- casselc 5y ago
  Not who you asked, but as someone interested in small/hobby farm equipment to enable a couple people to do more work, more efficiently: The actual products seem nice and they have a variety of things that would be useful to us. I’d like to be able to buy a common flatbed lifting/dumping platform at about half those prices and be able to separately purchase and easily swap out the various wheelbarrow and garden/utility wagon bases. Ability to upgrade/replace motor and batteries. Ability to use the platform for additional powered implements like spreaders, seed drills, flail mower, auger, etc I’d like to be able to operate it in either a push-in-front (wheelbarrow) or pull-behind (wagon) fashion and for the drive and steering controls to work well in both cases. Stretch goals: a low speed follow-me mode with basic obstacle detection/avoidance. A go-to-programmed-location-and-come-back-wherever-here-is mode, optionally dumping or waiting for interaction at the other end.

giantg2 5y ago

It sounds really cool/powerful. Also sounds like it kills the joy of beekeeping.

kyle_martin1 5y ago

DonHopkins 5y ago

How about enabling the bees to collectively walk their robotic bee hive around on its legs, kind of like how this goldfish controlled robot works -- "Just Keep Swimming": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GDgmP1ac_A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GDgmP1ac_A Or less bee-enabling and more bee-exploitive: BeeCopter is TacoCopter for Honey: delivering hive-fresh honey to your picnic or garden breakfast table by flying in live bee hives via drones! https://tacocopter.com/ https://tacocopter.com/ >On the East Coast? Try LobsterCopter -- "Taco Of The East!" https://www.huffpost.com/entry/tacocopter-startup-delivers-tacos-by-unmanned-drone-helicopter_n_1375842 https://www.huffpost.com/entry/tacocopter-startup-delivers-t... >Tacocopter Aims To Deliver Tacos Using Unmanned Drone Helicopters >(As for the worry that these tacocopters could eliminate delivery jobs: "I don't think that's what tacocopters really stand for," [Star] Simpson said. "But it's certainly the sort of robophobia we've lived with for a long time.")

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criddell 5y ago

Why honeybees? It seems like of all the bees out there, honeybees get all the attention. In North America, wouldn't it be better to encourage bee keeping of the species that are native to the region?

jmhobbs 5y ago
Honey bees are the easiest to manage really. Some other bees are raised for pollination, but honey bees have a long history of management and semi-domestication. We already know how to raise and manage big colonies for migratory pollination.

Kerrick 5y ago

When I was getting into commercial honey production on a small scale for my farm over the last year or so, I looked into Beewise quite closely. Unfortunately, they don't do small scale. From their FAQ: > We currently cater exclusively to Commercial Beekeepers managing 1,000 beehives and above.

natenatenate3 5y ago

My Uncle uses hives like these, they aren't great for a commercial setup, but they are very nice to work with and manage the bees in. https://horizontalhive.com/how-to-build/layens-beehive-design.shtml https://horizontalhive.com/how-to-build/layens-beehive-desig...