7 ms·

> With explanation in abstract that its easier to buy meth than pseudoephedrine. People may laugh at this, as they should since it is an absurd situation, but

> With explanation in abstract that its easier to buy meth than pseudoephedrine. People may laugh at this, as they should since it is an absurd situation, but this isn't entirely wrong. Neither my wife or I drive and during the pandemic she gave up her license after getting an appointment at the DOL was difficult. Both of us carry US passport cards as our ID. This has resulted in several situations where we've been turned down for purchasing restricted items like alcohol or drugs containing pseudoephedrine, particularly the latter, because a passport card can't be scanned by the usual point of sale systems. There are a couple of places in Seattle that are happy to accept a passport card but even at them it's sometimes been dependent on who is working the counter that day.

ericbarrett 5y ago
Why not get a non-motorist ID card? Every US state has these; here's Washington's: https://www.dol.wa.gov/driverslicense/gettingidcard.html https://www.dol.wa.gov/driverslicense/gettingidcard.html
- michaelmcdonald 5y ago
  I believe this is the key element: > she gave up her license after getting an appointment at the DOL was difficult. I'm not sure what DOL is a reference to; however I now many individuals struggled to get appointments at the Secretary of State (SoS) and that is also where one (at least where I live) would need to get a non-motorist ID. Same amount of frustration / time spent to get a non-motorist ID as it would be to renew your driver license.
  - zacherates 5y ago
    DOL = Washington Department of Licensing: https://www.dol.wa.gov/ https://www.dol.wa.gov/
  - fragmede 5y ago
    DOL ~= DMV = RMV
    - cestith 5y ago
      In Illinois, it's the Secretary of State's Driver Services office. In Texas, it's the Department of Public Safety, and your plates may be in one building/location and your driver's license/state ID in another part of town. Maybe the most honest state is Missouri, where plates, stickers for them, and your driver's license are all handled by the state's Department of Revenue.
- nostrebored 5y ago
  But why get one? A passport/passport card is a _better_ ID document in almost every way. State non-motorist IDs should really cease to exist and we should increase access to passport cards
  - dylan604 5y ago
    Except for the way of not being scannable at point of purchase machines that was clearly stated. So if the one point qualifying for "almost every way" is hitting right out of the gate, then it doesn't seem to be that viable of an option.
  - thrwy_918 5y ago
    >State non-motorist IDs should really cease to exist State non-motorist IDs are some of the only IDs available to non-citizens who live in the US and don't drive
    - jacobsievers 5y ago
      And, a government photo ID is required to get a passport. A state ID is very useful for non-driving citizens, as well as non-citizens.
    - InitialLastName 5y ago
      Don't they presumably have a US alien ID (Green Card or otherwise) and/or a foreign passport? What other documents could they use to establish identity to be able to get a State ID?
      - LorenPechtel 5y ago
        My wife is foreign-born, but was in the US as a non-resident when our hearts turned proximity into much more. Since she was already here the whole application process took place in the US. It was just under two years from when we married until she had a green card. (And note that there is also a delay from being granted a green card to actually having one in one's possession.) Foreign passport and non-driver's ID were her only options--and passports are a nuisance to carry around and a PITA if lost/stolen. (And, yes, I think that just under two years bit was not by chance. They were definitely looking for signs of fraud and I'm sure they finally approved it just before the point where they would have had to issue a permanent one rather than a conditional one.)
- techsupporter 5y ago
  We are aware of these. The reason is: Because unless you get the "enhanced" version, due to the ridiculous REAL ID situation you have to have another card anyway. For me in particular, where I work operates a medical clinic in a facility owned by the federal government so a non-enhanced card doesn't get me in the door, but a passport card does. For my wife, it's because she has even less tolerance for paperwork than I do and it's easier to just go to the pharmacies we know have their heads bolted on straight than it is to gather up all of the stuff and go to the overworked and harried DOL.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- dylan604 5y ago
  Would that not still require an in-person visit that they've already stated was not possible? I'd assume the state would require a new photo for a new ID at the least to make an in-person visit required. Probably need new fingerpritns as well (if that's something WA does).
  - f7ebc20c97 5y ago
    Society wouldn't function if people weren't willing to bend the rules.
    - dylan604 5y ago
      Not really sure what you're on about here. There's a time and place where bending the rules is possible. Attempting to get a government issued ID and not following the basic rules of showing up in person is not really one of them in my book.
- hammock 5y ago
  Many Americans have difficulty obtaining ID, because they cannot afford or cannot obtain the underlying documents that are a prerequisite to obtaining government-issued photo ID card. Underlying documents required to obtain ID cost money, a significant expense for lower-income Americans. The combined cost of document fees, travel expenses and waiting time are estimated to range from $75 to $175. The travel required is often a major burden on people with disabilities, the elderly, or those in rural areas without access to a car or public transportation. In Texas, some people in rural areas must travel approximately 170 miles to reach the nearest ID office.
  - ericbarrett 5y ago
    That's true and all, but the person I was replying to already has a federal passport, which suffices for all levels of state ID.
  - dredmorbius 5y ago
    Do you have any specific citations on that? I find it a credible claim. There was a story a few years back which made the rounds that ... turned out to be a case of fraud. http://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/national/article186044173.html http://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/national/articl... https://www.inquirer.com/news/mark-damico-johnny-bobbitt-kate-mcclure-gofundme-guilty-20211122.html https://www.inquirer.com/news/mark-damico-johnny-bobbitt-kat... That said, given frictions of obtaining ID and necessity of having same, I could well believe that this is an issue.
  - djrogers 5y ago
    > Underlying documents required to obtain ID cost money Err, no they don't. At least not with any of the IDs I've gotten in California for the past several years....
    - tshaddox 5y ago
      Where can you get a certified birth certificate for free?
    - scythe 5y ago
slaymaker1907 5y ago
As someone who moved to Seattle during the pandemic, I knew when you mentioned getting an appointment with the DOL that it was probably WA. I had to go out to Wenatchee (2 hour drive each way) to get my license because everywhere else was booked.
cdjk 5y ago
My favorite REAL ID compliant ID to use is my Global Entry card.
Rediscover 5y ago
Gotta chime in on this. Seattle (in general a great place) has some pretty horrible things re: purchasing alcohol. Idiot/mis-placed store/bar-workers who only want a state ID. My U.S. passport=NO. My U.N. passport=NO. Freakin' weird. Edit: I worked at Boeing for eight years, very often in a sec/reserved area. My passport was good there. Buying booze down the street from [Boeing] plant 2, no.
- morpheuskafka 5y ago
  > My U.N. passport=NO. I wouldn't blame a regular store clerk for not knowing what a UN Lassiez-Passier is, especially since it doesn't have the word "passport" in the name. But a passport, especially one from their own country, definitely ought to be recognized.
- mypalmike 5y ago
  Weird. Even during covid when I was wearing a mask, I never got ID checked at a store in WA. It seems much laxer here than in other states I've lived in.
- ashtonkem 5y ago
  Not entirely unique to Seattle, in my experience. Seared into my head is my experience of trying to buy alcohol in Boston back in 2009, when I was in town for a wedding. I had just turned 21 so buying alcohol was still novel and exciting. I had multiple bars and liquor stores refuse my valid Illinois license, forcing me to hand alcohol to my father to purchase, and find shady bars that wouldn’t card me. It was extremely frustrating to have to rely on such tactics despite being legally allowed to purchase alcohol.
- sbierwagen 5y ago
  When I lived in downtown Seattle in 2010 I had no problems using a passport to buy alcohol. (Unfortunately, routinely carrying around my passport resulted in me losing it, and replacing a lost passport is a giant pain in the ass)
mattkrause 5y ago
> People may laugh at this Not to spoil the joke, but the paper by "O. Hai" and "I. B. Hakkenshit" is satire--I would be absolutely gobsmacked if anyone is actually doing this.
- p_l 5y ago
  The process described is true, but the authors are anonymous - and rightly snarky
- hyperdimension 5y ago
  Right. Here's a copy of the paper, if anyone is interested: https://maggiemcneill.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/synthesizing-pseudoephedrine-from-meth.pdf https://maggiemcneill.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/synthesizi...
KingMachiavelli 5y ago
A divers license or state issue ID (much easier to get if you get it before you surrender/expire you DL) is just a defacto standard in the US. The people who check IDs for medications and alcohol are trained to check DL cards, not passports. It's not surprising that using an ID different from 99.9% of other people causes issues. Although my friend who was a student from Germany never had any issues...
LorenPechtel 5y ago
Yeah, many years ago my wife had a fair problem at a bank because the teller didn't like being presented with a passport. "Just bring your driver's license!" Hey, you've already seen and rejected her non-driver's ID (at the time the non-driver IDs didn't have expiration dates and the bank wouldn't take any ID without an expiration date) and here you can't have both a driver's license and a non-driver's ID. It took getting a manager involved. Now, had this happened a few years earlier before she was naturalized.... While her passport did have the standard English labels it was mostly written in bird tracks.

ericbarrett 5y ago

Why not get a non-motorist ID card? Every US state has these; here's Washington's: https://www.dol.wa.gov/driverslicense/gettingidcard.html https://www.dol.wa.gov/driverslicense/gettingidcard.html

michaelmcdonald 5y ago
I believe this is the key element: > she gave up her license after getting an appointment at the DOL was difficult. I'm not sure what DOL is a reference to; however I now many individuals struggled to get appointments at the Secretary of State (SoS) and that is also where one (at least where I live) would need to get a non-motorist ID. Same amount of frustration / time spent to get a non-motorist ID as it would be to renew your driver license.
- zacherates 5y ago
  DOL = Washington Department of Licensing: https://www.dol.wa.gov/ https://www.dol.wa.gov/
- fragmede 5y ago
  DOL ~= DMV = RMV
  - cestith 5y ago
    In Illinois, it's the Secretary of State's Driver Services office. In Texas, it's the Department of Public Safety, and your plates may be in one building/location and your driver's license/state ID in another part of town. Maybe the most honest state is Missouri, where plates, stickers for them, and your driver's license are all handled by the state's Department of Revenue.
nostrebored 5y ago
But why get one? A passport/passport card is a _better_ ID document in almost every way. State non-motorist IDs should really cease to exist and we should increase access to passport cards
- dylan604 5y ago
  Except for the way of not being scannable at point of purchase machines that was clearly stated. So if the one point qualifying for "almost every way" is hitting right out of the gate, then it doesn't seem to be that viable of an option.
- thrwy_918 5y ago
  >State non-motorist IDs should really cease to exist State non-motorist IDs are some of the only IDs available to non-citizens who live in the US and don't drive
  - jacobsievers 5y ago
    And, a government photo ID is required to get a passport. A state ID is very useful for non-driving citizens, as well as non-citizens.
  - InitialLastName 5y ago
    Don't they presumably have a US alien ID (Green Card or otherwise) and/or a foreign passport? What other documents could they use to establish identity to be able to get a State ID?
    - LorenPechtel 5y ago
      My wife is foreign-born, but was in the US as a non-resident when our hearts turned proximity into much more. Since she was already here the whole application process took place in the US. It was just under two years from when we married until she had a green card. (And note that there is also a delay from being granted a green card to actually having one in one's possession.) Foreign passport and non-driver's ID were her only options--and passports are a nuisance to carry around and a PITA if lost/stolen. (And, yes, I think that just under two years bit was not by chance. They were definitely looking for signs of fraud and I'm sure they finally approved it just before the point where they would have had to issue a permanent one rather than a conditional one.)
techsupporter 5y ago
We are aware of these. The reason is: Because unless you get the "enhanced" version, due to the ridiculous REAL ID situation you have to have another card anyway. For me in particular, where I work operates a medical clinic in a facility owned by the federal government so a non-enhanced card doesn't get me in the door, but a passport card does. For my wife, it's because she has even less tolerance for paperwork than I do and it's easier to just go to the pharmacies we know have their heads bolted on straight than it is to gather up all of the stuff and go to the overworked and harried DOL.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
dylan604 5y ago
Would that not still require an in-person visit that they've already stated was not possible? I'd assume the state would require a new photo for a new ID at the least to make an in-person visit required. Probably need new fingerpritns as well (if that's something WA does).
- f7ebc20c97 5y ago
  Society wouldn't function if people weren't willing to bend the rules.
  - dylan604 5y ago
    Not really sure what you're on about here. There's a time and place where bending the rules is possible. Attempting to get a government issued ID and not following the basic rules of showing up in person is not really one of them in my book.
hammock 5y ago
Many Americans have difficulty obtaining ID, because they cannot afford or cannot obtain the underlying documents that are a prerequisite to obtaining government-issued photo ID card. Underlying documents required to obtain ID cost money, a significant expense for lower-income Americans. The combined cost of document fees, travel expenses and waiting time are estimated to range from $75 to $175. The travel required is often a major burden on people with disabilities, the elderly, or those in rural areas without access to a car or public transportation. In Texas, some people in rural areas must travel approximately 170 miles to reach the nearest ID office.
- ericbarrett 5y ago
  That's true and all, but the person I was replying to already has a federal passport, which suffices for all levels of state ID.
- dredmorbius 5y ago
  Do you have any specific citations on that? I find it a credible claim. There was a story a few years back which made the rounds that ... turned out to be a case of fraud. http://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/national/article186044173.html http://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/national/articl... https://www.inquirer.com/news/mark-damico-johnny-bobbitt-kate-mcclure-gofundme-guilty-20211122.html https://www.inquirer.com/news/mark-damico-johnny-bobbitt-kat... That said, given frictions of obtaining ID and necessity of having same, I could well believe that this is an issue.
- djrogers 5y ago
  > Underlying documents required to obtain ID cost money Err, no they don't. At least not with any of the IDs I've gotten in California for the past several years....
  - tshaddox 5y ago
    Where can you get a certified birth certificate for free?
  - scythe 5y ago

slaymaker1907 5y ago

As someone who moved to Seattle during the pandemic, I knew when you mentioned getting an appointment with the DOL that it was probably WA. I had to go out to Wenatchee (2 hour drive each way) to get my license because everywhere else was booked.

cdjk 5y ago

My favorite REAL ID compliant ID to use is my Global Entry card.

Rediscover 5y ago

Gotta chime in on this. Seattle (in general a great place) has some pretty horrible things re: purchasing alcohol. Idiot/mis-placed store/bar-workers who only want a state ID. My U.S. passport=NO. My U.N. passport=NO. Freakin' weird. Edit: I worked at Boeing for eight years, very often in a sec/reserved area. My passport was good there. Buying booze down the street from [Boeing] plant 2, no.

morpheuskafka 5y ago
> My U.N. passport=NO. I wouldn't blame a regular store clerk for not knowing what a UN Lassiez-Passier is, especially since it doesn't have the word "passport" in the name. But a passport, especially one from their own country, definitely ought to be recognized.
mypalmike 5y ago
Weird. Even during covid when I was wearing a mask, I never got ID checked at a store in WA. It seems much laxer here than in other states I've lived in.
ashtonkem 5y ago
Not entirely unique to Seattle, in my experience. Seared into my head is my experience of trying to buy alcohol in Boston back in 2009, when I was in town for a wedding. I had just turned 21 so buying alcohol was still novel and exciting. I had multiple bars and liquor stores refuse my valid Illinois license, forcing me to hand alcohol to my father to purchase, and find shady bars that wouldn’t card me. It was extremely frustrating to have to rely on such tactics despite being legally allowed to purchase alcohol.
sbierwagen 5y ago
When I lived in downtown Seattle in 2010 I had no problems using a passport to buy alcohol. (Unfortunately, routinely carrying around my passport resulted in me losing it, and replacing a lost passport is a giant pain in the ass)

mattkrause 5y ago

> People may laugh at this Not to spoil the joke, but the paper by "O. Hai" and "I. B. Hakkenshit" is satire--I would be absolutely gobsmacked if anyone is actually doing this.

p_l 5y ago
The process described is true, but the authors are anonymous - and rightly snarky
hyperdimension 5y ago
Right. Here's a copy of the paper, if anyone is interested: https://maggiemcneill.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/synthesizing-pseudoephedrine-from-meth.pdf https://maggiemcneill.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/synthesizi...

KingMachiavelli 5y ago

A divers license or state issue ID (much easier to get if you get it before you surrender/expire you DL) is just a defacto standard in the US. The people who check IDs for medications and alcohol are trained to check DL cards, not passports. It's not surprising that using an ID different from 99.9% of other people causes issues. Although my friend who was a student from Germany never had any issues...

LorenPechtel 5y ago

Yeah, many years ago my wife had a fair problem at a bank because the teller didn't like being presented with a passport. "Just bring your driver's license!" Hey, you've already seen and rejected her non-driver's ID (at the time the non-driver IDs didn't have expiration dates and the bank wouldn't take any ID without an expiration date) and here you can't have both a driver's license and a non-driver's ID. It took getting a manager involved. Now, had this happened a few years earlier before she was naturalized.... While her passport did have the standard English labels it was mostly written in bird tracks.