3 ms·

Does anyone know of good low cost mine detection and disabling solutions?

Right now Russia has been mining a lot of Ukrainian territory and I can already see this becoming a huge issue after the conflict as my understanding is the standard process of de-mining is slow and dangerous. Any good tech ideas to solve this?

incomingpain 5y ago
If I had to build 1 right now. Get yourself a pickup truck, tractor, or similar. Get some bar long enough to weld to the chassis and push out say 50 feet in front, wider than the truck by a couple feet on each side. Get an axle to rotate so it's spinning horizontal to the ground. On the axle you weld chains. Make the chains just long enough to strike the ground with enough force to make the mines go off. Right immediately infront of the pickup you probably want some like 1/2" steel to protect the driver. Drive forward slowly. Let the chains whip around colliding with the ground at highish speed. Let the mines just explode. After each explosion, back up. Repair the chains as needed. What would that cost? Nothing really in the grand scheme of things. Could even go further and just build a big RC car. Get a Tesla that just drives forward. No driver at risk at all. If a mine is designed to not go off on the chain striking the ground, but would go off on the truck. Then all good. Much more expensive though.
- GartzenDeHaes 5y ago
  This called a flail. I doubt that improvised rig you described would work due to safety, weight, lack of engine heat dissipation, etc. BTW, the chains need weights attached to the ends in order to get them to extend while spinning (otherwise they just wrap around the axle. https://twitter.com/melanierovery/status/1064918271202418689 https://twitter.com/melanierovery/status/1064918271202418689 https://www.army-technology.com/projects/mv-4-mine-clearance/ https://www.army-technology.com/projects/mv-4-mine-clearance...
  - incomingpain 5y ago
    Interesting. Guess it makes sense they've tried it before. For some reason I imagine the current approach as laying down and slowly stabbing the ground with a bayonet.
    - GartzenDeHaes 5y ago
      I think this is the current approach. The gadget he is holding is a mine detector that's not much different that a commercial metal detector. https://media.defense.gov/2014/Aug/12/2000810975/700/465/0/140805-M-XX999-078.JPG https://media.defense.gov/2014/Aug/12/2000810975/700/465/0/1...
    - rolph 5y ago
      the stabbing part is part probing, and part digging out the mine that you know is there already.
    - salawat 5y ago
      The Flail approach does work.... You just really want to make sure you've sufficiently hardened the important parts. Explosions are not something you get many second/third/nth chances with dealing with if you undershoot the PPE required for effective protection. It's actually really cool, because once you're done demining, you get a really fancy tiller out of it. A horribly fuel inefficient one, but hey! Blades into plowshares and whatnot.
rolph 5y ago
it depends on what you need to do, just get through for now, or make a large area friendly again. dragging steel cable by helicopter; extending primacord into the minefield, then detonating https://www.military.com/video/operations-and-strategy/mine-clearance/m58-mine-clearing-line-charge/4585953394001 https://www.military.com/video/operations-and-strategy/mine-... a sapping vehicle: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mine_flail https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mine_flail http://www.pki-electronic.com/products/police-customs-and-military-equipment/mine-clearing-vehicle/ http://www.pki-electronic.com/products/police-customs-and-mi... Pookies can help sappers get around: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pookie_(vehicle) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pookie_(vehicle)
- atlasunshrugged 5y ago
  I was trying to think through the longer term issues so more the latter (making a large area friendly again), especially for kids who may not always be aware of how to watch out for anti-personnel mines in random places
  - rolph 5y ago
    that is the perennial issue of landmines. the trust in landmine use to remain traditional is something to consider. nothing other than morals would stop someone from setting individual mines in various places during a withdrawl. one thing that has been experimented with is to use beehives, and conditioning bees to associate the scent of explosive with sugar syrup, the bees will forage and tend to loiter near the scent of explosives, thus pointing out a possible mine or munition. https://www.technologyreview.com/2006/12/07/227361/using-bees-to-detect-bombs/ https://www.technologyreview.com/2006/12/07/227361/using-bee... https://www.sandia.gov/media/minebees.htm https://www.sandia.gov/media/minebees.htm
PaulHoule 5y ago
I have been looking through this flickr feed https://www.flickr.com/photos/ministryofdefenceua/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/ministryofdefenceua/ and see many images of Ukraine soldiers being trained to work with anti-tank mines, for instance https://www.flickr.com/photos/ministryofdefenceua/44851957285/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/ministryofdefenceua/4485195728... Land mines are one of the most useful tools Ukraine could have to stop Russian invaders.
- atlasunshrugged 5y ago
  Yes of course, I was more referring to the use of Russian forces indiscriminately deploying mines remotely which I've heard come up a few times from friends on the ground & the effect after the conflict on civilians as they try to get back to normal. Article about it here: https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/3441259-russian-troops-mining-ukrainian-territory-using-remote-mining-systems-armyinform.html https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/3441259-russian-troops-...
  - GartzenDeHaes 5y ago
    | The mines used in such shells are capable to self-destruct or be deactivated in preset time https://tadviser.com/index.php/Product:Agriculture_(engineering_system_of_remote_mining) https://tadviser.com/index.php/Product:Agriculture_(engineer...
cc101 5y ago
I bought a surplus NATO mine detector two years ago for $300 delivered. Online one can buy various surplus military mine detectors for $200-$300. Before buying these you need to know how well they detect the specific mines used in Ukraine. You must have help with this from someone with specific knowledge before proceeding. Without it, you are going to kill someone.

incomingpain 5y ago

If I had to build 1 right now. Get yourself a pickup truck, tractor, or similar. Get some bar long enough to weld to the chassis and push out say 50 feet in front, wider than the truck by a couple feet on each side. Get an axle to rotate so it's spinning horizontal to the ground. On the axle you weld chains. Make the chains just long enough to strike the ground with enough force to make the mines go off. Right immediately infront of the pickup you probably want some like 1/2" steel to protect the driver. Drive forward slowly. Let the chains whip around colliding with the ground at highish speed. Let the mines just explode. After each explosion, back up. Repair the chains as needed. What would that cost? Nothing really in the grand scheme of things. Could even go further and just build a big RC car. Get a Tesla that just drives forward. No driver at risk at all. If a mine is designed to not go off on the chain striking the ground, but would go off on the truck. Then all good. Much more expensive though.

GartzenDeHaes 5y ago
This called a flail. I doubt that improvised rig you described would work due to safety, weight, lack of engine heat dissipation, etc. BTW, the chains need weights attached to the ends in order to get them to extend while spinning (otherwise they just wrap around the axle. https://twitter.com/melanierovery/status/1064918271202418689 https://twitter.com/melanierovery/status/1064918271202418689 https://www.army-technology.com/projects/mv-4-mine-clearance/ https://www.army-technology.com/projects/mv-4-mine-clearance...
- incomingpain 5y ago
  Interesting. Guess it makes sense they've tried it before. For some reason I imagine the current approach as laying down and slowly stabbing the ground with a bayonet.
  - GartzenDeHaes 5y ago
    I think this is the current approach. The gadget he is holding is a mine detector that's not much different that a commercial metal detector. https://media.defense.gov/2014/Aug/12/2000810975/700/465/0/140805-M-XX999-078.JPG https://media.defense.gov/2014/Aug/12/2000810975/700/465/0/1...
  - rolph 5y ago
    the stabbing part is part probing, and part digging out the mine that you know is there already.
  - salawat 5y ago
    The Flail approach does work.... You just really want to make sure you've sufficiently hardened the important parts. Explosions are not something you get many second/third/nth chances with dealing with if you undershoot the PPE required for effective protection. It's actually really cool, because once you're done demining, you get a really fancy tiller out of it. A horribly fuel inefficient one, but hey! Blades into plowshares and whatnot.

rolph 5y ago

it depends on what you need to do, just get through for now, or make a large area friendly again. dragging steel cable by helicopter; extending primacord into the minefield, then detonating https://www.military.com/video/operations-and-strategy/mine-clearance/m58-mine-clearing-line-charge/4585953394001 https://www.military.com/video/operations-and-strategy/mine-... a sapping vehicle: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mine_flail https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mine_flail http://www.pki-electronic.com/products/police-customs-and-military-equipment/mine-clearing-vehicle/ http://www.pki-electronic.com/products/police-customs-and-mi... Pookies can help sappers get around: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pookie_(vehicle) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pookie_(vehicle)

atlasunshrugged 5y ago
I was trying to think through the longer term issues so more the latter (making a large area friendly again), especially for kids who may not always be aware of how to watch out for anti-personnel mines in random places
- rolph 5y ago
  that is the perennial issue of landmines. the trust in landmine use to remain traditional is something to consider. nothing other than morals would stop someone from setting individual mines in various places during a withdrawl. one thing that has been experimented with is to use beehives, and conditioning bees to associate the scent of explosive with sugar syrup, the bees will forage and tend to loiter near the scent of explosives, thus pointing out a possible mine or munition. https://www.technologyreview.com/2006/12/07/227361/using-bees-to-detect-bombs/ https://www.technologyreview.com/2006/12/07/227361/using-bee... https://www.sandia.gov/media/minebees.htm https://www.sandia.gov/media/minebees.htm

PaulHoule 5y ago

I have been looking through this flickr feed https://www.flickr.com/photos/ministryofdefenceua/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/ministryofdefenceua/ and see many images of Ukraine soldiers being trained to work with anti-tank mines, for instance https://www.flickr.com/photos/ministryofdefenceua/44851957285/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/ministryofdefenceua/4485195728... Land mines are one of the most useful tools Ukraine could have to stop Russian invaders.

atlasunshrugged 5y ago
Yes of course, I was more referring to the use of Russian forces indiscriminately deploying mines remotely which I've heard come up a few times from friends on the ground & the effect after the conflict on civilians as they try to get back to normal. Article about it here: https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/3441259-russian-troops-mining-ukrainian-territory-using-remote-mining-systems-armyinform.html https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/3441259-russian-troops-...
- GartzenDeHaes 5y ago
  | The mines used in such shells are capable to self-destruct or be deactivated in preset time https://tadviser.com/index.php/Product:Agriculture_(engineering_system_of_remote_mining) https://tadviser.com/index.php/Product:Agriculture_(engineer...

cc101 5y ago

I bought a surplus NATO mine detector two years ago for $300 delivered. Online one can buy various surplus military mine detectors for $200-$300. Before buying these you need to know how well they detect the specific mines used in Ukraine. You must have help with this from someone with specific knowledge before proceeding. Without it, you are going to kill someone.