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> - having Facebook/Meta experience on your resume starts hurting you against others who don't Why would it hurt you? They're at the forefront of technical cha

by bko 5y ago

> - having Facebook/Meta experience on your resume starts hurting you against others who don't Why would it hurt you? They're at the forefront of technical challenges of scaling an immensely popular product and developing internal tooling. These aren't necessarily applicable everywhere, but they're incredibly valuable. If anything, I think the fact that they're working at a place where a very vocal minority of their peers jeers at is a positive signal. They can withstand a snarky comment from some hipster at a party to potentially work on interesting technical challenges (money is good too). > - selling your company to Facebook/Meta or product on it hurts your brand and perceived to be immoral I think you're in a bubble. Facebook is a very popular brand name outside of a very vocal minority of internet commenters and tech journalists. They have a few of the most popular consumer apps in the world with 3 billion total users across the products. When you consider their products in open source like GraphQL and React, it's even more. I get it, you don't like Facebook. But don't gaslight yourself into thinking they're some toxic entity that everyone hates and is on the verge of irrelevance

fartcannon 5y ago
I sure would think twice about hiring from Facebook. It's like hiring someone from a weapons company that targets teenagers. Edit: I've had a chance to think about it after a cup of coffee and I take back my comment. Everyone deserves a second chance. Everyone gets the same ethical review.
- krageon 5y ago
  If you were a weapons company (and really, most successful big IT corps are in this metaphor) and you need specific targeting (you do) then you absolutely would. Perhaps you have trouble with their moral fiber, but you would then basically be alone in the business world. Corporations hate integrity in their workers (except when it comes to keeping corporate secrets).
  - fartcannon 5y ago
    They're making new talent every day. No need to hire the tainted.
    - kylevedder 5y ago
      Good luck explaining to your boss that you can't fill the hiring rec because, even though you found qualified candidates, you disliked the fact that they had the audacity to be employed by a tech company you don't like and so they're "tainted". In expectation it's better for the business to lay you off and get someone not ideologically possessed to do hiring, in the same way it's better for the business to not have racist hiring managers.
      - krageon 5y ago
        It is not at all similar to racism, and you should not pretend corporate dehumanising is something to be expected or even logical. These demands are wrong and we are correct to talk about them as such.
        kylevedder 5y ago
        Being unable to find the best candidates because you have racial prejudices or prejudices towards anyone with prior employment at the F in FAANG are both bad for business. You have a massive systematic blind spot that will make your company less competitive relative to peers because you have a personal ax to grind. I might add that prior employment at Facebook is very positively correlated with engineering talent -- you are not just selecting against something orthogonal to engineering talent, you are actually selecting against something that indicates they are a good engineer, meaning you have a smaller labor force you are willing to hire and a lower quality one. Go tell HR and your boss that you have prejudices against people from Facebook and you are going to discriminate against them in hiring as a consequence, see how well that goes for you.
        krageon 5y ago
        You are again enshrining (purely) fiscal motivation as expected and logical. I'm sorry, I just don't agree. I doubt you will start seeing it my way. Let's just leave it at that.
- anon23anon 5y ago
- bko 5y ago
  I wouldn't work at a place that doctrineer. Seems like a red flag to me that the company is overly consumed with politics.
  - long_time_gone 5y ago
    Maybe they are consumed with ethics, rather than politics. As this article (and many others) explains, Meta does not act in an ethical manner with their actions towards users, the government, competitors, etc. Why wouldn't a future employer take that into account?
- dominotw 5y ago
  curious where do you work?
- elkos 5y ago
  I wouldn't mind hiring an ex-FBer, the organization I represent has a very precise ethical compass. I also believe I wouldn't be able to match their salaries, theyd be on-board because they share that same vision and ethics.
ad404b8a372f2b9 5y ago
You conflate toxicity, popularity and commercial success. Someone in tech might have a skewed view of the latter two given their environment but they're well capable of evaluating the potential danger of the tools being built there. They're also the ones doing the recruiting. Anecdotally, I had a friend who used to work at Monsanto and he told me of a few very uncomfortable social encounters when people learned where he worked. It made him question whether he should find a job somewhere else. I don't think we're there with Facebook, the general public mostly seems focused on misinformation rather than privacy but who knows what the future holds.
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saiya-jin 5y ago
Forefront of technical challenges? Are you effin' kidding me? That website that can't get its shit together for 15+ years I use it. Constantly and consistently there are tons of bugs in its behavior. Doubling comments, missing pictures, can't create photo albums, then they are created twice, site unavailable, some parts of site not working, feed not loading, videos not playing, back button almost completely broken. I could go on and on and on. Any browser, anytime. I've never ever experienced any other popular system/service so broken. I am sure behind it all is complex overengineered cathedral of frameworks, systems and libraries. Some of it may be even cool. But the final result is piece of shit, no matter how I look on it, no matter how many chances I give it. Compared to quality of say various google apps is... well incomparable. So yeah, having this on resume is underwhelming, even without looking at moral topics.
- mechanical_bear 5y ago
  I really dislike FB, but I can’t say I have your experience. Both mobile and desktop versions of FB worked flawlessly for me for the time that I used it, starting back in 2005 when our University was granted access.
tomatowurst 5y ago
I didn't really present any strong opinions just raising questions off what I am reading and seeing based on trends. It's quite bizarre that you would go out of your way to try and gaslight me that Facebook's toxicity is my own imagination. Do you work for facebook in some way, sold a company to them or own their stocks?
bastardoperator 5y ago
I don't think it hurts from a technical perspective but from an ethical and moral perspective facebook is harmful to society. The good news is someone in a job interview is looking to get away from facebook and that should carry some weight.

by bko 5y ago

fartcannon 5y ago

I sure would think twice about hiring from Facebook. It's like hiring someone from a weapons company that targets teenagers. Edit: I've had a chance to think about it after a cup of coffee and I take back my comment. Everyone deserves a second chance. Everyone gets the same ethical review.

krageon 5y ago
If you were a weapons company (and really, most successful big IT corps are in this metaphor) and you need specific targeting (you do) then you absolutely would. Perhaps you have trouble with their moral fiber, but you would then basically be alone in the business world. Corporations hate integrity in their workers (except when it comes to keeping corporate secrets).
- fartcannon 5y ago
  They're making new talent every day. No need to hire the tainted.
  - kylevedder 5y ago
    Good luck explaining to your boss that you can't fill the hiring rec because, even though you found qualified candidates, you disliked the fact that they had the audacity to be employed by a tech company you don't like and so they're "tainted". In expectation it's better for the business to lay you off and get someone not ideologically possessed to do hiring, in the same way it's better for the business to not have racist hiring managers.
    - krageon 5y ago
      It is not at all similar to racism, and you should not pretend corporate dehumanising is something to be expected or even logical. These demands are wrong and we are correct to talk about them as such.
      - kylevedder 5y ago
        Being unable to find the best candidates because you have racial prejudices or prejudices towards anyone with prior employment at the F in FAANG are both bad for business. You have a massive systematic blind spot that will make your company less competitive relative to peers because you have a personal ax to grind. I might add that prior employment at Facebook is very positively correlated with engineering talent -- you are not just selecting against something orthogonal to engineering talent, you are actually selecting against something that indicates they are a good engineer, meaning you have a smaller labor force you are willing to hire and a lower quality one. Go tell HR and your boss that you have prejudices against people from Facebook and you are going to discriminate against them in hiring as a consequence, see how well that goes for you.
        krageon 5y ago
        You are again enshrining (purely) fiscal motivation as expected and logical. I'm sorry, I just don't agree. I doubt you will start seeing it my way. Let's just leave it at that.
anon23anon 5y ago
bko 5y ago
I wouldn't work at a place that doctrineer. Seems like a red flag to me that the company is overly consumed with politics.
- long_time_gone 5y ago
  Maybe they are consumed with ethics, rather than politics. As this article (and many others) explains, Meta does not act in an ethical manner with their actions towards users, the government, competitors, etc. Why wouldn't a future employer take that into account?
dominotw 5y ago
curious where do you work?
elkos 5y ago
I wouldn't mind hiring an ex-FBer, the organization I represent has a very precise ethical compass. I also believe I wouldn't be able to match their salaries, theyd be on-board because they share that same vision and ethics.

ad404b8a372f2b9 5y ago

You conflate toxicity, popularity and commercial success. Someone in tech might have a skewed view of the latter two given their environment but they're well capable of evaluating the potential danger of the tools being built there. They're also the ones doing the recruiting. Anecdotally, I had a friend who used to work at Monsanto and he told me of a few very uncomfortable social encounters when people learned where he worked. It made him question whether he should find a job somewhere else. I don't think we're there with Facebook, the general public mostly seems focused on misinformation rather than privacy but who knows what the future holds.

deleted 5y ago

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deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

saiya-jin 5y ago

Forefront of technical challenges? Are you effin' kidding me? That website that can't get its shit together for 15+ years I use it. Constantly and consistently there are tons of bugs in its behavior. Doubling comments, missing pictures, can't create photo albums, then they are created twice, site unavailable, some parts of site not working, feed not loading, videos not playing, back button almost completely broken. I could go on and on and on. Any browser, anytime. I've never ever experienced any other popular system/service so broken. I am sure behind it all is complex overengineered cathedral of frameworks, systems and libraries. Some of it may be even cool. But the final result is piece of shit, no matter how I look on it, no matter how many chances I give it. Compared to quality of say various google apps is... well incomparable. So yeah, having this on resume is underwhelming, even without looking at moral topics.

mechanical_bear 5y ago
I really dislike FB, but I can’t say I have your experience. Both mobile and desktop versions of FB worked flawlessly for me for the time that I used it, starting back in 2005 when our University was granted access.

tomatowurst 5y ago

I didn't really present any strong opinions just raising questions off what I am reading and seeing based on trends. It's quite bizarre that you would go out of your way to try and gaslight me that Facebook's toxicity is my own imagination. Do you work for facebook in some way, sold a company to them or own their stocks?

bastardoperator 5y ago

I don't think it hurts from a technical perspective but from an ethical and moral perspective facebook is harmful to society. The good news is someone in a job interview is looking to get away from facebook and that should carry some weight.