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If grades are utterly uncorrelated with proficiency, then you are correct. Is that your claim? Grades have zero information content, zero predictive power, ov

If grades are utterly uncorrelated with proficiency, then you are correct. Is that your claim? Grades have zero information content, zero predictive power, over someone’s proficiency at the time the grades are given?

zem 5y ago
no, my claim is that if grades are not a good measure of proficiency, it is irrelevant whether they are an objective measure or not. I have not studied the field well enough to know whether they actually are a good measure or not.
StanislavPetrov 5y ago
It is an absurd claim on its face. I don't think tests are perfect, nor have I seen anyone make the claim that they are. But, for example, when it comes to measuring the proficiency of different students in different classrooms being taught algebra by different teachers each with their own method and style of evaluation, there is simply no replacement for a standardized test.
- musicale 5y ago
  > But, for example, when it comes to measuring the proficiency of different students in different classrooms being taught algebra by different teachers each with their own method and style of evaluation, there is simply no replacement for a standardized test. The problem really isn't tests per se, but the approach of ranking students by their scores and rewarding them or punishing them accordingly. The goal shouldn't be to stack rank students for some sort of pyramid reward system but rather to help as many students as possible to achieve mastery while preparing them for future success. A competitive environment with rewards and punishments may work for some students (usually the ones who are on top) but can discourage other students (usually the ones on the bottom) and destroy their interest in learning.
  - chii 5y ago
    > A competitive environment with rewards and punishments competition requires that there be something scarce (otherwise, why can't everybody have the thing being competed over?) So a GPA score is a competition for who gets the "best" college placements, or limited funds from taxation to fund higher education. Therefore, to solve the problem, it isn't enough to remove GPA scores (or equivalent), because another, more murky metric would be used to compete. The resource being competed for must be expanded, and more of it made available. Sometimes this isn't possible, but i dont think higher education should be a limited resource - it is worth the cost paid since a more educated populous is beneficial to the whole of society.

zem 5y ago

no, my claim is that if grades are not a good measure of proficiency, it is irrelevant whether they are an objective measure or not. I have not studied the field well enough to know whether they actually are a good measure or not.

StanislavPetrov 5y ago

It is an absurd claim on its face. I don't think tests are perfect, nor have I seen anyone make the claim that they are. But, for example, when it comes to measuring the proficiency of different students in different classrooms being taught algebra by different teachers each with their own method and style of evaluation, there is simply no replacement for a standardized test.

musicale 5y ago
> But, for example, when it comes to measuring the proficiency of different students in different classrooms being taught algebra by different teachers each with their own method and style of evaluation, there is simply no replacement for a standardized test. The problem really isn't tests per se, but the approach of ranking students by their scores and rewarding them or punishing them accordingly. The goal shouldn't be to stack rank students for some sort of pyramid reward system but rather to help as many students as possible to achieve mastery while preparing them for future success. A competitive environment with rewards and punishments may work for some students (usually the ones who are on top) but can discourage other students (usually the ones on the bottom) and destroy their interest in learning.
- chii 5y ago
  > A competitive environment with rewards and punishments competition requires that there be something scarce (otherwise, why can't everybody have the thing being competed over?) So a GPA score is a competition for who gets the "best" college placements, or limited funds from taxation to fund higher education. Therefore, to solve the problem, it isn't enough to remove GPA scores (or equivalent), because another, more murky metric would be used to compete. The resource being competed for must be expanded, and more of it made available. Sometimes this isn't possible, but i dont think higher education should be a limited resource - it is worth the cost paid since a more educated populous is beneficial to the whole of society.