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>encryption has many, many actually useful and productive applications So does crypto but likewise opponents of encryption disregard the positives and focus on

• dmitriid 5y ago
  > So does crypto It doesn't. Everyone who claims otherwise can't come up with a single credible example.
  • ipaddr 5y ago
    Buying a subscription to gay.com from Syria. Your on the clock..
    • tablespoon 5y ago
      >> It doesn't. Everyone who claims otherwise can't come up with a single credible example. > Buying a subscription to gay.com from Syria. That is not a credible example. Here are some reasons: 1) Paying for porn? Paying for porn when the implication is that it's illegal and could get you in trouble? Who would do that? 2) Cryptocurrency isn't anonymous, and is usually highly traceable. 3) And even if it was anonymous, what good will it do when your DNS lookups will divulge you're looking at gay porn? 4) Oh, so now someone's supposed to be using some elaborate TOR/VPN setup in a repressive country, just so they can pay for porn? 5) What, exactly is the process for converting Syrian Pounds into cryptocurrency again? 6) etc. > Your on the clock.. Why were you so confident in your non-credible example?
      • ipaddr 5y ago
        Who would pay for porn? Someone who wants to see what's behind that paywall. Crytocurrency is difficult and costly to trace and exchange identifying not available to Syria. VPNs would be used Same process for other currencies on Binance and other exchanges.
        • jhugo 5y ago
          When did Binance start to accept the Syrian Pound? This is just the usual hand-waving that ignores all the inconvenient details.
          • deleted 5y ago
            [deleted]
          • ipaddr 5y ago
            You might be surprised: https://www.fxempire.com/crypto/exchange/binance/review https://www.fxempire.com/crypto/exchange/binance/review
            • jhugo 5y ago
              I'm confused by your link. Nowhere on that page does it mention them accepting the Syrian Pound...?
        • nl 5y ago
          If the person has VPN access them there are better options available. The crypto transaction makes information available to attackers that wouldn't be available by any other method. That's objectively worse.
        • tablespoon 5y ago
          The addition of cryptocurrency to the process adds no value (and in this case adds unnecessary risk). You might as well suggest using cryptocurrency to buy a Big Mac at McDonalds. Here's how you do it: 1. Deposit your money in a bank. Wire it to Binance. Buy Bitcoin. 2. Go to a McDonald's. 3. Hire a gig worker through an app, pay them in cryptocurrency to buy a Big Mac with fiat and give it to you. 4. Eat your $55 Big Mac, and wonder at the amazing real-world utility of cryptocurrency.
      • ryukoposting 5y ago
        The other poster is probably very confident because gay.com redirects to https://lalgbtcenter.org https://lalgbtcenter.org, which is an LGBT advocacy group in Los Angeles.
        • tablespoon 5y ago
          >>> Buying a subscription to gay.com from Syria. >> Why were you so confident in your non-credible example? > The other poster is probably very confident because gay.com redirects to https://lalgbtcenter.org https://lalgbtcenter.org, which is an LGBT advocacy group in Los Angeles. I doubt they knew that. It's inconsistent with their thought of "buying a subscription to gay.com," and it raises the question of why someone in Syria would even be interested in a LA-focused advocacy group. Plus in their reply indicated they thought of it as a porn site. What kind of advocacy group has a paywall that someone would want to see behind?
      • john_alan 5y ago
        You need to spend more time thinking about this. You’ll end up realising that the value lies in self sovereign, permissionless money. Tech like Monero. The debt ceiling grows every day.
        • tablespoon 5y ago
          > You need to spend more time thinking about this. You’ll end up realising that the value lies in self sovereign, permissionless money. Tech like Monero. I have. However you illustrate an important point about cryptocurrency: it's an exercise in political ideology without practicality. > The debt ceiling grows every day. If you're that worried about inflation, shiny gold seems like a better option.
          • OOPMan 5y ago
            Shiny gold also has the benefit of being something you can stuff in a sock and hit clobber cryptobros with ;-) Try that trick with some digital currency :-)
    • nl 5y ago
      I'm not particularly anti-crypto but this is probably the worst example ever. By using crypto the person now has written a public record of that payment. An attacker now can use correlation attacks to try to identify the user. It's worse in almost every way for that user.
      • throwawaygh 5y ago
        I'm still stuck at the part where we're paying for porn...
        • nl 5y ago
          I assumed it was a dating site?
        • jquery 5y ago
          You’ll understand when you’re older.
          • deleted 5y ago
            [deleted]
          • throwawaygh 5y ago
            I'm fairly old already, and so far age is... not linearly correlated, but at least definitely a dampening function on porn consumption :)
            • jquery 5y ago
              Haha, ok well you got me there. :) when i get right down to it, I've only paid for my porn out of a sense of patronage, not necessity. Shame about that dampening factor, but its also allowed me to appreciate more niche and interesting erotica, akin to adults who can eat interesting food dishes compared to kids who prefer hamburgers and macaroni.
      • ipaddr 5y ago
        Worse than a credit card? How? Public record that Syria cannot easily track with bitcoin or no trail with Monero. I'll give you a bitcoin wallet address can you tell me who owns it?
  • xvector 5y ago
    - not having a central payment processor know everything about you - buying drugs/porn/VPNs/etc in a country that has a backwards stance on them - anonymous donations - purchasing services (eg commissioned art) without revealing your identity - sending money to friends and family during hyperinflation/freedom from government (mis)management of currencies Freedom of speech (eg cryptography) is not worth much without the ability to actually use said freedom to drive a change (e.g. requiring work, thus requiring money.)
    • MBCook 5y ago
      So… - Not having anyone watch out for you - Buying slaves/child porn/weapons in countries with a “backwards stance” on them - You don’t need crypto for that. A lawyer could do it for you. - See above - Use any other currency that’s not undergoing hyper inflation
      • xvector 5y ago
        Seems like you can use the same arguments for encryption. - Not having anyone "watch out" for your communications - the ability to pirate or download content illegally - can have a lawyer handle secure communications - just use a different messaging service Clearly we value the freedom and privacy provided by encryption to ignore these arguments.
        • MBCook 5y ago
          I believe in string encryption. The difference is usefulness. I’ve seen others express this in this post’s comments. Encryption is EXTREMELY useful, as history has proved. It has a great many beneficial uses, or at least benign. Yes it can be used by criminals, but that’s hardly its only use. Cryptocurrency doesn’t seem to provide anything but something to speculate on, a way to sell hardware, and an unfathomable waste of resources. When people point out things it’s “better” at they always seem kind of sketchy, of require you to old the same values (independence from central government above all else). I see no inherent good after 14 years, just massive problems. So no, I don’t think they’re comparable myself. I don’t find them similar at all for the purposes of the point I’m trying to make.
  • ls15 5y ago
    * Evacuating money from war or authocratic leadership in a brain wallet, without running into the risk of getting it stolen at checkpoints. Of course that works best for those who already have crypto before that door closes. * Paying for VPN anonymously with Monero. * Sending money for living to relatives that reside in countries that are sanctioned. What's more important? Knowing that your family is not hungry or following your government's doctrine? * Hide money from abusive relatives. In summary: Doing transactions without having to ask your principal for permission or having to reveal them. Seems quite empowering to me, but apparently not everyone thinks that being empowered is valuable.
    • malermeister 5y ago
      In a democratic society, with an elected principal, it's not only not valuable, but anti-democratic and antisocial. We all agreed on the rules as a society, if somebody wants to empower themselves above them than that's not cool imo. Of course, in authoritarian governments your point stands, but then the trade-off is undermining democracies as collateral damage.
      • bartread 5y ago
        > We all agreed on the rules as a society Actually we didn't. None of us chose to be here. None of us has a choice over when or where we're born. We all arrive and grow up in societies structured and governed in ways that we've had no say over, and over which very few of us will have meaningful influence during our lifetimes. Some of this is OK, some of it isn't. Some places are more or less OK than others. But don't act like we should all simply accept everything about systems we've had no agency in building purely because we might live in a democracy.
        • malermeister 5y ago
          I've moved countries four times in my life. You might not have chosen to be here, but others have. Speak for yourself.
          • 5y ago
• virtualritz 5y ago
  >> encryption has many, many actually useful and productive applications > So does crypto [...] I'd wager that this is a lie. Please name one. These systems are self referential. Great if all to do is speculate with value changes inside the system. Other use cases? In short: no one has come up with any solution to the oracle problem. As soon as you want to exchange anything crypto with anything but crypto (e.g. USD or a physical asset like a loaf of bread) you need trust.[1] [1] https://youtu.be/MiLnDe_bX6Y https://youtu.be/MiLnDe_bX6Y
  • sterlind 5y ago
    I don't have much invested in crypto, and I find PoW hideous. I think crypto is most useful for illegal things and tradecraft, but illegal doesn't mean immoral, and useful to criminals is still useful. * Buying VPN relays anonymously, for connecting to through Tor, VPSes etc. * Buying drugs. * Donating to causes sanctioned by your country. * Paying informants. * Allowing you to prove you're the author of something, or knew a secret, later on. * "Dead hand" schemes which release information if your wallet activity stops for more than a couple weeks. This keeps people from killing you to keep something from getting out. * Online gambling. * Evading financial controls to send money to your family abroad. Some of this doesn't require any trust (e.g. proving you knew something before some date), most of the rest requires trust, but what makes crypto useful for these cases isn't lack of trust but auditability, anonymity and/or lack of control by authorities.
    • Kostchei 5y ago
      I have worked in (used personally or done professionally) pre-crypto versions of these, excluding the dead hand scheme- and although some were a little complex and had some risk, I would argue that the new version has the same complexity and risk, only it seems to be hidden by crypto buzz-words. Also reminds me why I don't do those things any more.
      • OOPMan 5y ago
        Indeed. I've come across a dead letter application that has been around for ages and I'm pretty sure it doesn't use crypto. Honestly, using crypto for something like seems a bit nuts, like using a jackhammer to destroy a cardboard box.