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Visa's marketing opt-out has been down for over a week. Is this a legal issue?
- azinman2 5y agoI’m guessing you can still write or call them.
- robertwiblin 5y agoA description of what you are supposed to be able to opt-out from on Visa cards is here: "In some countries, Visa enhances card transaction data and uses it to generate anonymised and aggregated consumer spending and marketing reports and other data products that enable companies to improve their marketing efforts. These solutions help companies identify consumers that they can target." https://www.visa.co.uk/legal/privacy-policy-opt-out.html https://www.visa.co.uk/legal/privacy-policy-opt-out.html
- toomuchtodo 5y agohttps://reportfraud.ftc.gov/#/assistant https://reportfraud.ftc.gov/#/assistant https://www.consumerfinance.gov/complaint/ https://www.consumerfinance.gov/complaint/ California residents: https://oag.ca.gov/contact/consumer-complaint-against-business-or-company https://oag.ca.gov/contact/consumer-complaint-against-busine... EU Residents: https://ec.europa.eu/info/law/law-topic/data-protection/reform/rights-citizens/redress/what-should-i-do-if-i-think-my-personal-data-protection-rights-havent-been-respected_en https://ec.europa.eu/info/law/law-topic/data-protection/refo... (i cannot say for sure if/what regulatory impacts this might have; let regulators know, let them figure it out, that's why they exist)
- mikece 5y agoThe credit card companies make so much money that reimbursing fraudulent transactions is almost a rounding error -- which is why they aren't in a rush to spend the money to implement chip and PIN security. Given this attitude I'm guessing someone already ran the cost/benefit analysis of pivoting engineering teams to fix the opt-out website versus just paying a fine -- and that paying lawyers to contest any fine they might ever get came out on the winning side of the ledger.
- Johnny555 5y agoThe credit card companies make so much money that reimbursing fraudulent transactions is almost a rounding error The credit card companies (i.e. Visa) don't reimburse fraud, they leave that to the issuing banks (i.e. Chase, Capital One, etc.... whoever you got your card from)
- anonymousiam 5y agoAmerican Express handles their own fraud cases. Their cards are generally not issued by banks. I have no association with them other than being a card member since 1982, but their customer service is far better than Visa/MC, and yes, you can get a card from them with no annual fees + perks.
- nxm 5y agoUnfortunately at a bigger cost to the merchant, which hurts in case of small businesses
- starwind 5y agoAmEx has special rates small businesses can apply for that keep the credit card transaction fees pretty competitive
- xxpor 5y agoThe card is still issued by a bank, the bank is called American Express National Bank. Someone has to extend the actual credit.
- Johnny555 5y agotheir customer service is far better than Visa/MC I used to think that (and maybe it was true once), but haven't found that to be the case, I've had far better experience from Chase for my Sapphire card. My wife recently ran into a problem with a booking through Amex's own travel service, the hotel said they had a reservation, but not payment, but we paid for the room at Amex travel. So we figured no problem, just pay the hotel directly (their rate was even lower than Amex) and call Amex to have them remove their charge. It took 5 calls over several days to finally talk to someone who could help, and it still took 3 days for the charge to be reversed. And this is for a Platinum card.
- docflabby 5y agoNah cos big corps just do what they want with no penalties unless they piss off enough people that the politicans feel like they need to make a point.. ...we're well into gangster capitalism now
- gordon_freeman 5y agoor enough people or someone "influential" start to complain on social media and it gets enough traction.
- encryptluks2 5y ago
- cryo78 5y agoWhy do you believe that everything the government does is nefarious? If you really believe your government is after you and everyone else you can try to change it or leave the country. The one option that doesn’t change anything is posting unrelated comments on the web. How is the government informing people bad? Are schools bad? Universities?
- encryptluks2 5y ago
- nkozyra 5y ago> So you'd be okay if on Jan 6, Donald Trump used the emergency broadcast system The article you linked doesn't seem to say anything about using EBS. Trump used every platform available to spread the notion that the election was rigged, so I'm not following the whatabout here.
- encryptluks2 5y ago
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- paxys 5y agoDepends on local laws. And they'll likely say that they have a phone number you could have called.
- silicon2401 5y agoDoes anybody have a phone number or other resource that can be used for opting out of marketing?
- go_prodev 5y agoSo has Adobe's too apparently
- whathappenedto 5y agoWhen I tried to get my annual credit report, I find that the credit agencies constantly have trouble validating my identify online even though I have one of the simplest reports. A single same address for decades, no loans, paid off every month. They randomly will say that I can't be verified, and I need to snail mail them copies of a bunch of identifying documents to get my credit report. I imagine this is a common issue, and somehow still satisfies their requirement to offer the annual credit report online.
- colejohnson66 5y agoWhy not just view them online? Sites like CreditKarma have existed for years. And if you don’t trust third parties, Experian let’s you view theirs on their own site. The benefit is being able to see updates more than once a year. CreditKarma updates every week.
- whathappenedto 5y agoYeah that's what I'm trying to do, to view them online. I've looked up what's going wrong, and quite a few people have this issue that they can't be verified online.
- colejohnson66 5y agoThat's bizarre. Apologies for not understanding.
- couchand 5y agoI had a similar experience recently: one agency report came through fine, one report came through with mysterious issues, and one just would not ever let me verify without snail mail. When it came time for my "real" credit report to be run, however, there was no problem at all verifying my identity or getting the accurate information. Weird, huh?
- eslaught 5y ago
- markstos 5y agoIANAL, but if the page is used to opt-out of marketing emails, then yes, Visa is in violation the US CAN-SPAM act, which requires promptly processing opt-out requests. https://www.ftc.gov/business-guidance/resources/can-spam-act-compliance-guide-business https://www.ftc.gov/business-guidance/resources/can-spam-act... As long as the opt-out page is broken, they should not be sending out marketing emails and could be open to a class-action lawsuit from people they email with no ability to opt-out.
- LukeShu 5y ago> could be open to a class-action lawsuit from people they email with no ability to opt-out. CAN-SPAM does not grant standing to individuals. The only recourse individuals have under CAN-SPAM is to report the violation to the FTC and hope the FTC does something about it.
- manquer 5y agoDo individuals have standing against FTC if they don't action ? Lack of FTC action is causing you material harm , or is there immunity against FTC as well?
- charcircuit 5y ago
- drdaeman 5y agoA single one - barely any. Although you have to be a Superman to be able to entirely process it in 1ms. At scale, it might take up to a few minutes off your day and under certain circumstances (heavy spam) even start contributing to a mental fatigue. It's a minor nuisance but a nuisance nonetheless.
- convolvatron 5y agodon't forget that that the presence of spam makes it quite a bit more difficult to manage your own email regardless, it introduces a non-zero chance that legitimate email might be misclassified it seems like everyone in the ad industry has this opinion - if you don't like it, just delete it and move on. but there are thousands of them, and somewhere in there is that job offer I really need.
- bprasanna 5y agoDark patterns all around! Same i experienced with Coinbase after registering, when i searched for delete account, there is no such thing!
- ShakataGaNai 5y agohttps://help.coinbase.com/en/coinbase/managing-my-account/update-my-account/how-can-i-close-my-account https://help.coinbase.com/en/coinbase/managing-my-account/up...
- pilgrimfff 5y agoIt is a violation with a theoretical hefty fine of around $40k per infraction. But in practice, laws don't apply to companies like Visa. XFINITY's email marketing system has been ignoring opt-outs for years and nothing has or will ever happen.
- labster 5y agoEven the law was enforced, Visa would just get 3.5% of the fine back immediately.
- boatsie 5y agoThis is what is so frustrating about companies harming many people by small amounts. There is no actual recourse for the individuals. If an individual missed a credit card payment by mistake, the bank would assuredly charge them a late fee, report the payment to the credit agencies, etc. But when the company makes a mistake like this, no penalty, no consequences. It really should be the other way around—we should extend grace to the person rather than the company, yet the company basically has more “rights” in a way than the person.
- WaxProlix 5y agoGah, it's an asymmetric war. I feel like, as programmers, we should be able to leverage automation for individuals to fight back smarter where corpos fight harder. Might be hard to do without incurring the ire of the state, whose allegiances will probably not lie with the bearded fat man spamming Visa's webforms with the contents of their own emails or whatever.
- NaturalPhallacy 5y agoThe computer fraud and abuse act was quickly installed to prevent exactly this kind of levelling of the playing field in America. Bank of America's website would let you change account numbers in the URL bar after logging in and see someone else's account. The CFAA was on their side.
- r1b 5y agoThis has been true for "Camel" (cdr R.J Reynolds, cddr British American Tobacco) promotional emails for months. I've been through the unsubscribe workflow several times but still receive emails. I do appreciate the irony - it's as hard to unsubscribe as it is to quit smoking!
- otterley 5y agoYou're asking in the wrong forum. You want legal opinions, not a bunch of HNers without law degrees or licenses to practice answering this question.
- egorfine 5y agoIt's okay. MasterCard's MasterPass service's website in Ukraine[1] had it's certificate expired like half a year ago and has only been renewed a few days ago. Meanwhile the customer support assured customers that MasterCard is doing everything possible to fix the issue. Six months to renew SSL cert... [1] https://masterpass.com.ua/ https://masterpass.com.ua/
- gslin 4y agoNow the domain is gone: ; <<>> DiG 9.16.1-Ubuntu <<>> marketingreportoptout.visa.com ;; global options: +cmd ;; Got answer: ;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 23155 ;; flags: qr rd ra; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 0, AUTHORITY: 1, ADDITIONAL: 1 ;; OPT PSEUDOSECTION: ; EDNS: version: 0, flags:; udp: 4096 ;; QUESTION SECTION: ;marketingreportoptout.visa.com. IN A ;; AUTHORITY SECTION: visa.com. 284 IN SOA ns1.dnsvisa.com. premiumdns.support.neustar. 2019108493 600 300 1209600 300
- libpcap 4y ago