6 ms·

Downsides of induction burners: bottom of pan heats up very quickly, but heat propagates through the pan slowly, so food is prone to burn when you are adjusting

Downsides of induction burners: bottom of pan heats up very quickly, but heat propagates through the pan slowly, so food is prone to burn when you are adjusting for a certain level of simmer. Limited heat settings left me often wishing for more nuance, especially in lower temperatures. Hysteresis. You can see this by putting your saucepan with water to 350, then lowering it to 212 when it reaches a boil. It will rapidly cycle between boiling and not boiling, making simmering very difficult. My particular induction burner has one setting for 140F (way too low) and the next setting is 212F. Where's simmer? It does heat water up faster than a conventional burner, so I use it for cooking the pasta while I make the sauce on a conventional gas stovetop. I also use it when temperature control isn't important, but that's not very often in cooking.

kumarvvr 5y ago
I see that as an opportunity for business. Induction heat transfer is basically generating a magnetic field in the bottom coil, which is then picked up by the vessel, currents induced in it causing the heat. Cheap induction stoves emulate lower power levels by turning the heat on and off, averaging the heat. One solution is to use a thick bottom vessel that retains enough heat between the cycles to allow simmering. Or buy a smooth controlled stove. But I dont think there are any such ones in the market.
- alaties 5y ago
  Would cast iron pots and pans count as thick-bottomed in this case? I usually use these with electric stoves since they retain heat pretty well. They take a while to warm up though, so there's both time and energy lost in that warming process.
  - prometheus76 5y ago
    I primarily use cast iron for cooking, and it does help with the hysteresis, but I still have a problem with the bottom of the pan being way too hot and tending to burn food.
  - kumarvvr 5y ago
    The best vessel is a flat bottomed one with at-least quarter inch thick bottom. Cast Iron ones will do too. If you have to cook something to simmer and hold heat for long, best use thick bottomed ones. What could be done to mitigate the slow heating issue is to use a small amount of water initially, on high settings, allowing it to boil. Then you can add your contents, reduce the power setting and allow it to simmer. What many dont know is that you can keep a cast iron or steel plate between the vessel and the stove, of a suitable thickness, that converts the induction stove to a "heater" stove (the plate gets heated through induction, but the vessel only sees the heat). However, a word of caution. If the plate is of a very large size, it will have un-even heating and may warp. Best size is one that is slightly smaller than the circular marker on the stove.
  - SAI_Peregrinus 5y ago
    They work fine with induction.
seanmcdirmid 5y ago
It sounds like your induction cooktop wasn’t very good? You can definitely get temperature control in a higher end model.
- collegeburner 5y ago
  Then this means induction cooktops are not a good solution yet because most Americans will keep their mid range gas stoves that work well instead of getting an expensive induction one to do the same.
  - seanmcdirmid 5y ago
    I have a gas stove but will be moving to induction soon given it meets our needs better. You already see induction in high end new builds (with gas in mid-end and older builds).
    - prometheus76 5y ago
      Having both, I miss the infinite adjustability and almost instant change when using gas, compared to the preset steps of temperature offered by the induction burner.
      - seanmcdirmid 5y ago
        Again, it is just to our needs. The most important being cleanability, and then kettle speed. We mostly do Chinese cooking, so precise temperature control isn't so important for stir fry.
      - EricE 5y ago
        How is induction any less responsive than gas? My gas stoves had big metal grates that themselves heated up - and took forever to cool down. There is way less mass on my induction stove cooktop for any residual/carry over heat than on the gas cooktop. You kill the power to the HOB and heat stops - immediately. And induction ramps WAY faster than gas could ever hope to, especially if you have decent cookware (i.e. solid metal/no discs welded on the bottom). I do agree that there are far too many induction cooktops with gawd awful controls that are not responsive; that's more a matter of picking a well designed unit rather than a fundamental flaw in the technology itself. Same with granular control - higher end models offer not just finer control, but different control modes. It boggles my mind there aren't more temperature probe options for automatic temperature control. My GE cooktop had an optional bluetooth probe - but it only worked for low temps. If they had a high temp probe it would be a candy makers dream! I only use gas when I want to cook with super high heat - like with a wok. And for that I use a left over turkey fryer burner - outside! Double bonus for all the gunk thrown off during cooking not being trapped in my house either. I don't have a restaurant style hood and make up air system; it's far cheeper and easier to just go outside for that kind of cooking.
Reason077 5y ago
> ”Downsides of induction burners: bottom of pan heats up very quickly, but heat propagates through the pan slowly, so food is prone to burn” Have you tried a thicker, heavier pan? A good quality induction cooker should heat reasonably slowly and maintain a constant temperature if you set it to, say, 1/3 or 1/2 power. I’ve been using a friend’s one recently and found it to be much easier to maintain a steady temperature than with my old electric cooktop.
- prometheus76 5y ago
  I'm specifically referring to my experience of using a cast iron pan. The bottom heats up quickly because it's being directly affected by the induction process, but propagates through the sides of the pan very slowly, which is normal behavior for a cast iron pan. That's part of its usefulness: even heat. The problem with induction is that it hyperheats the bottom, but the slow propagation of the eat means that the normal benefits of cast iron are eliminated (at least in the first part of the cooking process, until the whole pan heats up).
  - Reason077 5y ago
    Ok, so how about either a) starting at a lower power level to let the cast iron heat more gradually, or b) waiting until the pan heats up to the desired temperature before adding food?
    - prometheus76 5y ago
      I have used solution A, and once it heats up, you still lose fine control of heat (because my induction burner is cheap and only has 10 preset temps that are spaced too far apart). I was excited by the prospects of induction cooking, and if I'm boiling water, or even making a slow-cook stew, it works great. But for sauces and meat (where fine temperature control is critical), I'll stick to gas or (if I have to) electric.
      - EricE 5y ago
        Lack of fine control isn't a fault of induction, but of a cheaply made cooktop. I too made that mistake on my last house. My mom's induction range has half steps and they make all the difference. Getting a new house next month and I won't even be considering an induction cooktop with fewer than 18 steps. Indeed I love to cook so much and one of the downsides of induction I didn't see talked about too much in this thread - matching pan size to hob size - bugged me so much on my old cooktop I'm tempted to get something ridiculous like the Gaggenau 400 Series that doesn't have defined areas for pans, but a grid of smaller hobs that will autodetect and adjust to the size/location of a pan. There are at least three versions of that cooktop from various manufacturers and one of the non-Gaggenau ones was something like 30% cheaper. And I just realized I didn't save it like I thought I had. D'oh!
prometheus76 5y ago
I'm replying to my own comment here, but I wanted to clarify something with hysteresis. Heating water (or food, or a pan) up to a certain temperature takes more energy than maintaining that temperature. It appears that the temperature setting on my induction burner uses the same amount of energy regardless. So it will bring the water to a boil when I use the 212F setting, but once it's there, it requires less energy to maintain that temp, but the induction burner doesn't adjust accordingly. So, instead of turning the amount of energy down to maintain 212F, it just cycles on and off hysteritically. With a gas or electric stove, I can turn the heat up, and once it reaches boiling, I can turn the heat down slightly, maintaining the current level of boiling (because there's "simmer", "boil" or "rolling boil", for example).
- EricE 5y ago
  I fail to see why you can't do that with induction - indeed I do that all the time with induction. The cycle is just a lot shorter with induction. Waiting for integrated temperature control to become more of a thing with induction - higher end cooktops have it; just needs to percolate down. My GE cooktop had a bluetooth probe that worked great at lower temperatures - but usually you want automatic temp control more on the high end - frying and candymaking is what I was missing. I guess if you made lots of delicate sauces the bluetooth probe would have been a godsend and maybe that's what they were going for. Probably cheaper, easier and more reliable to only have a lower temp probe too. Just not nearly as useful for what I would have liked!
EricE 5y ago
I've never once had hysteresis be a problem with induction - especially any more or less than with gas or traditional radiant electric. If you like to cook invest in good cookware. The biggest problem with induction is cheap cookware with "disks" on the bottom. Having as much ferrous magnetic metal as possible is the real key to success with induction - and why your cast iron performs so well! I love All Clad - triple ply stainless steel sandwich of either aluminum or (if you are feeling really extravagant) copper. Far easier to maintain than cast iron (although I love my cast iron too - can't get fried chicken just right in anything else). Cookware and More is the official All Clad factory seconds (usual some dent or other cosmetic flaw) outlet with great prices and if you get on their mailing list they have an annual sale where they take even more off. I've gotten All Clad skillets for well under $200 and they will be something I can pass on. Good cookware never dies. Took several years to get the pieces I wanted but I did it without breaking the bank. If All Clad, even factory seconds, are still too pricy - I'm not paying $500 for a stockpot no matter how wonderful it may be - then Made In has very nice pieces competitively priced. Got my stock pot from them for under $200. Finally Tramontina has great induction ready clad cookware pieces and can be found at regular big box stores like Costco or even Walmart. Not quite as heavy/well constructed as All Clad or Made In, but still leaps and bounds better than anything with a disk. Good, better, best - just reject anything with a damn disk welded onto the bottom of it and you will find induction a LOT more enjoyable. As good as your cast iron :) Fine control comes with higher end units that have more settings. Didn't pay attention to that at my last house and got a cooktop with only 11 choices. My mothers induction range has double that and it's amazing what a difference makes, especially at the lower end - as you note. Getting a new house next month and won't be making that mistake again! Something with a at least 18-20 steps from low to high will be mandatory for me. 11 just isn't enough.

kumarvvr 5y ago

I see that as an opportunity for business. Induction heat transfer is basically generating a magnetic field in the bottom coil, which is then picked up by the vessel, currents induced in it causing the heat. Cheap induction stoves emulate lower power levels by turning the heat on and off, averaging the heat. One solution is to use a thick bottom vessel that retains enough heat between the cycles to allow simmering. Or buy a smooth controlled stove. But I dont think there are any such ones in the market.

alaties 5y ago
Would cast iron pots and pans count as thick-bottomed in this case? I usually use these with electric stoves since they retain heat pretty well. They take a while to warm up though, so there's both time and energy lost in that warming process.
- prometheus76 5y ago
  I primarily use cast iron for cooking, and it does help with the hysteresis, but I still have a problem with the bottom of the pan being way too hot and tending to burn food.
- kumarvvr 5y ago
  The best vessel is a flat bottomed one with at-least quarter inch thick bottom. Cast Iron ones will do too. If you have to cook something to simmer and hold heat for long, best use thick bottomed ones. What could be done to mitigate the slow heating issue is to use a small amount of water initially, on high settings, allowing it to boil. Then you can add your contents, reduce the power setting and allow it to simmer. What many dont know is that you can keep a cast iron or steel plate between the vessel and the stove, of a suitable thickness, that converts the induction stove to a "heater" stove (the plate gets heated through induction, but the vessel only sees the heat). However, a word of caution. If the plate is of a very large size, it will have un-even heating and may warp. Best size is one that is slightly smaller than the circular marker on the stove.
- SAI_Peregrinus 5y ago
  They work fine with induction.

seanmcdirmid 5y ago

It sounds like your induction cooktop wasn’t very good? You can definitely get temperature control in a higher end model.

collegeburner 5y ago
Then this means induction cooktops are not a good solution yet because most Americans will keep their mid range gas stoves that work well instead of getting an expensive induction one to do the same.
- seanmcdirmid 5y ago
  I have a gas stove but will be moving to induction soon given it meets our needs better. You already see induction in high end new builds (with gas in mid-end and older builds).
  - prometheus76 5y ago
    Having both, I miss the infinite adjustability and almost instant change when using gas, compared to the preset steps of temperature offered by the induction burner.
    - seanmcdirmid 5y ago
      Again, it is just to our needs. The most important being cleanability, and then kettle speed. We mostly do Chinese cooking, so precise temperature control isn't so important for stir fry.
    - EricE 5y ago
      How is induction any less responsive than gas? My gas stoves had big metal grates that themselves heated up - and took forever to cool down. There is way less mass on my induction stove cooktop for any residual/carry over heat than on the gas cooktop. You kill the power to the HOB and heat stops - immediately. And induction ramps WAY faster than gas could ever hope to, especially if you have decent cookware (i.e. solid metal/no discs welded on the bottom). I do agree that there are far too many induction cooktops with gawd awful controls that are not responsive; that's more a matter of picking a well designed unit rather than a fundamental flaw in the technology itself. Same with granular control - higher end models offer not just finer control, but different control modes. It boggles my mind there aren't more temperature probe options for automatic temperature control. My GE cooktop had an optional bluetooth probe - but it only worked for low temps. If they had a high temp probe it would be a candy makers dream! I only use gas when I want to cook with super high heat - like with a wok. And for that I use a left over turkey fryer burner - outside! Double bonus for all the gunk thrown off during cooking not being trapped in my house either. I don't have a restaurant style hood and make up air system; it's far cheeper and easier to just go outside for that kind of cooking.

Reason077 5y ago

> ”Downsides of induction burners: bottom of pan heats up very quickly, but heat propagates through the pan slowly, so food is prone to burn” Have you tried a thicker, heavier pan? A good quality induction cooker should heat reasonably slowly and maintain a constant temperature if you set it to, say, 1/3 or 1/2 power. I’ve been using a friend’s one recently and found it to be much easier to maintain a steady temperature than with my old electric cooktop.

prometheus76 5y ago
I'm specifically referring to my experience of using a cast iron pan. The bottom heats up quickly because it's being directly affected by the induction process, but propagates through the sides of the pan very slowly, which is normal behavior for a cast iron pan. That's part of its usefulness: even heat. The problem with induction is that it hyperheats the bottom, but the slow propagation of the eat means that the normal benefits of cast iron are eliminated (at least in the first part of the cooking process, until the whole pan heats up).
- Reason077 5y ago
  Ok, so how about either a) starting at a lower power level to let the cast iron heat more gradually, or b) waiting until the pan heats up to the desired temperature before adding food?
  - prometheus76 5y ago
    I have used solution A, and once it heats up, you still lose fine control of heat (because my induction burner is cheap and only has 10 preset temps that are spaced too far apart). I was excited by the prospects of induction cooking, and if I'm boiling water, or even making a slow-cook stew, it works great. But for sauces and meat (where fine temperature control is critical), I'll stick to gas or (if I have to) electric.
    - EricE 5y ago
      Lack of fine control isn't a fault of induction, but of a cheaply made cooktop. I too made that mistake on my last house. My mom's induction range has half steps and they make all the difference. Getting a new house next month and I won't even be considering an induction cooktop with fewer than 18 steps. Indeed I love to cook so much and one of the downsides of induction I didn't see talked about too much in this thread - matching pan size to hob size - bugged me so much on my old cooktop I'm tempted to get something ridiculous like the Gaggenau 400 Series that doesn't have defined areas for pans, but a grid of smaller hobs that will autodetect and adjust to the size/location of a pan. There are at least three versions of that cooktop from various manufacturers and one of the non-Gaggenau ones was something like 30% cheaper. And I just realized I didn't save it like I thought I had. D'oh!

prometheus76 5y ago

I'm replying to my own comment here, but I wanted to clarify something with hysteresis. Heating water (or food, or a pan) up to a certain temperature takes more energy than maintaining that temperature. It appears that the temperature setting on my induction burner uses the same amount of energy regardless. So it will bring the water to a boil when I use the 212F setting, but once it's there, it requires less energy to maintain that temp, but the induction burner doesn't adjust accordingly. So, instead of turning the amount of energy down to maintain 212F, it just cycles on and off hysteritically. With a gas or electric stove, I can turn the heat up, and once it reaches boiling, I can turn the heat down slightly, maintaining the current level of boiling (because there's "simmer", "boil" or "rolling boil", for example).

EricE 5y ago
I fail to see why you can't do that with induction - indeed I do that all the time with induction. The cycle is just a lot shorter with induction. Waiting for integrated temperature control to become more of a thing with induction - higher end cooktops have it; just needs to percolate down. My GE cooktop had a bluetooth probe that worked great at lower temperatures - but usually you want automatic temp control more on the high end - frying and candymaking is what I was missing. I guess if you made lots of delicate sauces the bluetooth probe would have been a godsend and maybe that's what they were going for. Probably cheaper, easier and more reliable to only have a lower temp probe too. Just not nearly as useful for what I would have liked!

EricE 5y ago

I've never once had hysteresis be a problem with induction - especially any more or less than with gas or traditional radiant electric. If you like to cook invest in good cookware. The biggest problem with induction is cheap cookware with "disks" on the bottom. Having as much ferrous magnetic metal as possible is the real key to success with induction - and why your cast iron performs so well! I love All Clad - triple ply stainless steel sandwich of either aluminum or (if you are feeling really extravagant) copper. Far easier to maintain than cast iron (although I love my cast iron too - can't get fried chicken just right in anything else). Cookware and More is the official All Clad factory seconds (usual some dent or other cosmetic flaw) outlet with great prices and if you get on their mailing list they have an annual sale where they take even more off. I've gotten All Clad skillets for well under $200 and they will be something I can pass on. Good cookware never dies. Took several years to get the pieces I wanted but I did it without breaking the bank. If All Clad, even factory seconds, are still too pricy - I'm not paying $500 for a stockpot no matter how wonderful it may be - then Made In has very nice pieces competitively priced. Got my stock pot from them for under $200. Finally Tramontina has great induction ready clad cookware pieces and can be found at regular big box stores like Costco or even Walmart. Not quite as heavy/well constructed as All Clad or Made In, but still leaps and bounds better than anything with a disk. Good, better, best - just reject anything with a damn disk welded onto the bottom of it and you will find induction a LOT more enjoyable. As good as your cast iron :) Fine control comes with higher end units that have more settings. Didn't pay attention to that at my last house and got a cooktop with only 11 choices. My mothers induction range has double that and it's amazing what a difference makes, especially at the lower end - as you note. Getting a new house next month and won't be making that mistake again! Something with a at least 18-20 steps from low to high will be mandatory for me. 11 just isn't enough.