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> Cooks with experience in commercial kitchens never want to eat at a restaurant again. Having done such work, this is absolutely untrue. I got a renewed appre

> Cooks with experience in commercial kitchens never want to eat at a restaurant again. Having done such work, this is absolutely untrue. I got a renewed appreciation for the hard work kitchen staff put in and the stringent requirements on cleanliness that kitchen staff has. I suppose this will change based on the country you are in, if you are in a country with bad sanitary checking you will have a bad time.

sandos 5y ago
Totally agree, though it seems differ quite a bit between different kinds of kitchens here in Sweden. Producing stuff sold in stores means super-stringent checks where for example you have to swap your clothes before entering and exiting the area where you prepare the foodstuff. Now school kitchens on the other hand... sure they are checked but not at all with the same strictness it seems.
willcipriano 5y ago
I have ten years in kitchens and while I do eat out I also know how disgusting kitchens are. I have a stomach for it but if you were a regular person and knew what I knew you'd refrain from eating out. We pay back of house staff as little as we can get away with to work every weekend and holiday in hellish conditions. They just don't give a crap and who can blame them.
- krageon 5y ago
  > I also know how disgusting kitchens are [...] They're disinfected literally every day, and during the day all surfaces are regularly cleaned. If this isn't mandatory where you live, you live in a country with bad hygiene laws. > We pay back of house staff as little as we can get away with to work every weekend and holiday in hellish conditions. This doesn't match where I live at all, FWIW.
  - willcipriano 5y ago
    > If this isn't mandatory where you live, you live in a country with bad hygiene laws. Are drugs illegal in your country? Do people still do them?
    - krageon 5y ago
      If you spend a little time thinking about the amount of restaurants versus the amount of actual people there are in a country, you will realise one is relatively easy to enforce compared to the other. Furthermore, the conversation was about the average. It is not the case that the average human being goes around snorting coke in the toilet every day, just as it is not the case that the average restaurant is some bastion of filth. Moving around the goalposts in such a way is not a way to have a conversation in good faith, so please stop doing so.
      - willcipriano 5y ago
        Having worked in them for a decade I know how it works in practice. Perhaps whatever country you are from has sparking clean restaurants full of well paid, sober people but in the US, they are disgusting as a rule. My peers in the UK reported the same. We had to call a ambulance for our health inspector once beacuse they overdosed in the bathroom. Check out Kitchen Confidential if you want to see this backed up, and even that's about the highest end restaurants in the country. https://www.amazon.com/Kitchen-Confidential-Adventures-Culinary-Underbelly-ebook/dp/B002UM5BXW https://www.amazon.com/Kitchen-Confidential-Adventures-Culin...
        JumpCrisscross 5y ago
        > in the US, they are disgusting as a rule Sanitation is enforced at the local level. Making blanket statements about the U.S. carries little information. Restaurants in New York (county) are spotless. Restaurants in San Francisco, less reliably so. The broader point holds, however--people in the restaurant industry tend to go out to restaurants.
        5y ago
rectang 5y ago
It's legend because of Down and Out in Paris and London, by George Orwell — a book from a different era. https://archive.org/details/DownAndOutInParisAndLondonGeorgeOrwell1933/page/n91/mode/2up?q=spittle https://archive.org/details/DownAndOutInParisAndLondonGeorge... > Roughly speaking, the more one pays for food, the more sweat and spittle one is obliged to eat with it.
- daniel-cussen 5y ago
  That legend is true in some products. Medicine, the lower the absolute cost, the higher the quality. Not totally in every way, but in general. Especially for pills, that hot new patented pill that solves all your problems is worthless, it can only compete with the out-of-patent miracle drug because of P-hacking statistics and super super hot pharma reps "calentando la sopa" to the doctors prescribing it. Like if Ratipooson tm brags about being 41.3% effective instead of 40% effective and requires a team of cheerleaders to get your doctors to prescribe it, and the pill from the 50's has a grouchy fatass with a mustache that only goes in person every three years to check up on stock, obviously the old pill is categorically superior. The statistics are lies, and anyway, the doctors ought to think of how good the patient's money is for him, what he has to do to get that money, the impact of that money on his health versus that (fictional) 1.3% improvement. I suppose I have to translate that. "Calentando la sopa" means heating up the broth. Like sexual innuendo, teasing, they're super super particular about wearing clothes that get the doctors thinking about sex without admitting they want the doctors thinking about sex.
commandlinefan 5y ago
I'm so relieved to hear you say that, because OP is spot on about anybody with any knowledge of how software is developed not trusting it to do anything right.
amalcon 5y ago
It varies a lot. Quite a long time ago, I worked at a pizza place in a regional chain. That location was kept quite clean, as were most of them. However, sometimes they'd give us the chance to pick up a shift at another location if they couldn't arrange one of their own employees on that day (usually because they called in sick). One such location was absolutely filthy. That location was since closed (grapevine says the chain fired the GM and couldn't find anyone to replace them). What helps is that there are signs of this sort of thing, if you know what to look for. E.g you should prefer places where you can see into the kitchen (which is most of them these days), places where the customer service workers tuck in their shirts, and places that keep their bathrooms and parking lots clean. Places where police and EMS folks eat really tend to be good bets (they usually also get a discount, but lots of places offer such discounts).
- daniel-cussen 5y ago
  That's the system working as intended. Clean kitchens not only don't get their customers sick, but taste better too. Filthy kitchens go out of business. Most kitchens are clean, because the people who work there keep them clean, the rule in a manual does none of the cleaning, the people do all of it. And people know, come on, people are wise to this shit, they've been told not to trust their sense of taste in order to accept medicine that is clearly bad for them, but they don't believe 100% in the gaslighting, get real.

sandos 5y ago

Totally agree, though it seems differ quite a bit between different kinds of kitchens here in Sweden. Producing stuff sold in stores means super-stringent checks where for example you have to swap your clothes before entering and exiting the area where you prepare the foodstuff. Now school kitchens on the other hand... sure they are checked but not at all with the same strictness it seems.

willcipriano 5y ago

I have ten years in kitchens and while I do eat out I also know how disgusting kitchens are. I have a stomach for it but if you were a regular person and knew what I knew you'd refrain from eating out. We pay back of house staff as little as we can get away with to work every weekend and holiday in hellish conditions. They just don't give a crap and who can blame them.

krageon 5y ago
> I also know how disgusting kitchens are [...] They're disinfected literally every day, and during the day all surfaces are regularly cleaned. If this isn't mandatory where you live, you live in a country with bad hygiene laws. > We pay back of house staff as little as we can get away with to work every weekend and holiday in hellish conditions. This doesn't match where I live at all, FWIW.
- willcipriano 5y ago
  > If this isn't mandatory where you live, you live in a country with bad hygiene laws. Are drugs illegal in your country? Do people still do them?
  - krageon 5y ago
    If you spend a little time thinking about the amount of restaurants versus the amount of actual people there are in a country, you will realise one is relatively easy to enforce compared to the other. Furthermore, the conversation was about the average. It is not the case that the average human being goes around snorting coke in the toilet every day, just as it is not the case that the average restaurant is some bastion of filth. Moving around the goalposts in such a way is not a way to have a conversation in good faith, so please stop doing so.
    - willcipriano 5y ago
      Having worked in them for a decade I know how it works in practice. Perhaps whatever country you are from has sparking clean restaurants full of well paid, sober people but in the US, they are disgusting as a rule. My peers in the UK reported the same. We had to call a ambulance for our health inspector once beacuse they overdosed in the bathroom. Check out Kitchen Confidential if you want to see this backed up, and even that's about the highest end restaurants in the country. https://www.amazon.com/Kitchen-Confidential-Adventures-Culinary-Underbelly-ebook/dp/B002UM5BXW https://www.amazon.com/Kitchen-Confidential-Adventures-Culin...
      - JumpCrisscross 5y ago
        > in the US, they are disgusting as a rule Sanitation is enforced at the local level. Making blanket statements about the U.S. carries little information. Restaurants in New York (county) are spotless. Restaurants in San Francisco, less reliably so. The broader point holds, however--people in the restaurant industry tend to go out to restaurants.
        5y ago

rectang 5y ago

It's legend because of Down and Out in Paris and London, by George Orwell — a book from a different era. https://archive.org/details/DownAndOutInParisAndLondonGeorgeOrwell1933/page/n91/mode/2up?q=spittle https://archive.org/details/DownAndOutInParisAndLondonGeorge... > Roughly speaking, the more one pays for food, the more sweat and spittle one is obliged to eat with it.

daniel-cussen 5y ago
That legend is true in some products. Medicine, the lower the absolute cost, the higher the quality. Not totally in every way, but in general. Especially for pills, that hot new patented pill that solves all your problems is worthless, it can only compete with the out-of-patent miracle drug because of P-hacking statistics and super super hot pharma reps "calentando la sopa" to the doctors prescribing it. Like if Ratipooson tm brags about being 41.3% effective instead of 40% effective and requires a team of cheerleaders to get your doctors to prescribe it, and the pill from the 50's has a grouchy fatass with a mustache that only goes in person every three years to check up on stock, obviously the old pill is categorically superior. The statistics are lies, and anyway, the doctors ought to think of how good the patient's money is for him, what he has to do to get that money, the impact of that money on his health versus that (fictional) 1.3% improvement. I suppose I have to translate that. "Calentando la sopa" means heating up the broth. Like sexual innuendo, teasing, they're super super particular about wearing clothes that get the doctors thinking about sex without admitting they want the doctors thinking about sex.

commandlinefan 5y ago

I'm so relieved to hear you say that, because OP is spot on about anybody with any knowledge of how software is developed not trusting it to do anything right.

amalcon 5y ago

It varies a lot. Quite a long time ago, I worked at a pizza place in a regional chain. That location was kept quite clean, as were most of them. However, sometimes they'd give us the chance to pick up a shift at another location if they couldn't arrange one of their own employees on that day (usually because they called in sick). One such location was absolutely filthy. That location was since closed (grapevine says the chain fired the GM and couldn't find anyone to replace them). What helps is that there are signs of this sort of thing, if you know what to look for. E.g you should prefer places where you can see into the kitchen (which is most of them these days), places where the customer service workers tuck in their shirts, and places that keep their bathrooms and parking lots clean. Places where police and EMS folks eat really tend to be good bets (they usually also get a discount, but lots of places offer such discounts).

daniel-cussen 5y ago
That's the system working as intended. Clean kitchens not only don't get their customers sick, but taste better too. Filthy kitchens go out of business. Most kitchens are clean, because the people who work there keep them clean, the rule in a manual does none of the cleaning, the people do all of it. And people know, come on, people are wise to this shit, they've been told not to trust their sense of taste in order to accept medicine that is clearly bad for them, but they don't believe 100% in the gaslighting, get real.