5 ms·

Startup Programming Jobs: C++, C#, and Java Reign Supreme?

16 points by dshah 18y ago

greyman 18y ago
I don't know what exactly the guy's point was, but I don't consider this a surprise. C++ and C# are still one of the best choices for developing standalone applications (C# when you are under Windows only and speed is not critical, C++ otherwise). If you are doing more scripting/web stuff, then you will use scripting languages for the job. What I would like to HN guys ask is this. I saw quite a lot of critique of C++ here, but really, what is a better choice for developing commercial standalone application, where speed is critical? I mean real established language with good library and IDE support. I am just really curious to know, I personally have nothing against anyone disliking C++. ;-)
- dshah 18y ago
  I was a bit surprised by this because I would have expected there to be lesser and lesser "stand-alone applications" (desktop applications) being developed amd more web applications. For web application development, I'd expect PHP/RoR to have a bigger footprint.
  - greyman 18y ago
    I see your point. One reason could be, that while there might be less stand-alone applications under development (just an assumption, I don't know whether it is so), nowadays lot of them are big apps required a lot of programmers (for example in the project I work on, there are several hundreds developers ;-). In the web apps world, the teams are usually slimmer.
  - iamelgringo 18y ago
    There may well be less stand alone applications being developed, but I have a hunch that the number of developers needed in a desktop application startup is substantially higher than the number of developers needed for a web application. If the scripting languages that are used have a 10:1 LOC advantage over Java/C/C++, then with an equal number of applications being developed, I'd assume that there would be 10x as many Java/C/C++ jobs available as Python/Ruby jobs. I'm wondering why there aren't more IronPython/IronRuby/F#/Powershell focused startups in the Microsoft world. It would seem like a competitive advantage.
- biohacker42 18y ago
  I've worked in C++ for many years, in both biotech and video editing, both have the same demands about speed and memory footprint, hence C++. But I also like Python, and I would be hard pressed to justify C++ for anything that doesn't truly need it. Still, I am pleasantly surprised C++ is in demand at startups.
- alexk 18y ago
  C++ has a great support and is stable, has a super powerful community, good libs (boost) C# is also good and stable, if you want Linux, you can use Mono. Java - is ok as well here, can be mixed with C++ I would personaly choose C++(low)/Python(high) pair for this task
- timr 18y ago
  I'm one of a small handful of C++ defenders on this site, and I don't think you're going to find a serious answer to your question here (assuming that you were asking a serious question, and weren't just lighting a flamewar.) Now, not to hold a match to the tinder or anything, but I think that part of the reason that there's such a vocal backlash against C++ is that a few generations of programmers have never been exposed to the language in school or work. Today, most college kids are being trained on some combination of Java and scripting languages, and (in an era of web apps and cheap hardware) have never had any real reason to use C++. That said, my opinion is that deep C++ (and C) knowledge is a litmus test for a good developer. If your only development experience is in perl/python/ruby/java, you're quite likely to be missing some important skills. On the flip side, a good C++ developer will be able to quickly pick up any dynamic language or programming paradigm you give her.
- tomjen 18y ago
  Ocaml, Haskell and SML all compile to native binary code.
lemonysnicket 18y ago
SEO
- rms 18y ago
  Yes, blogs are good for SEO. Have you ever considered starting one?
aschobel 18y ago
Doing the same search for San Francisco gives us very different results. Jobs with Java in the title (1,529) http://www.indeed.com/jobs?q=title%3Ajava&l=san+francisco%2C+ca&radius=100 http://www.indeed.com/jobs?q=title%3Ajava&l=san+francisc... Jobs with C++ in the title (476) http://www.indeed.com/jobs?q=title%3AC%2B%2B&l=san+francisco,+ca&radius=100 http://www.indeed.com/jobs?q=title%3AC%2B%2B&l=san+franc... Jobs with PHP in the title (326) http://www.indeed.com/jobs?q=title%3APHP&l=san+francisco%2C+ca&radius=100 http://www.indeed.com/jobs?q=title%3APHP&l=san+francisco... Jobs with C# in the title (224) http://www.indeed.com/jobs?l=san+francisco,+ca&q=title%3AC%23&radius=100 http://www.indeed.com/jobs?l=san+francisco,+ca&q=title%3... Jobs with Ruby in the title (217) http://www.indeed.com/jobs?q=title%3Aruby&l=san+francisco%2C+ca&radius=100 http://www.indeed.com/jobs?q=title%3Aruby&l=san+francisc... Jobs with Perl in the title (161) http://www.indeed.com/jobs?q=title%3Aperl&l=san+francisco%2C+ca&radius=100 http://www.indeed.com/jobs?q=title%3Aperl&l=san+francisc... Jobs with ASP in the title (101) http://www.indeed.com/jobs?q=title%3Aasp&l=san+francisco%2C+ca&radius=100 http://www.indeed.com/jobs?q=title%3Aasp&l=san+francisco... Jobs with Python in the title (90) http://www.indeed.com/jobs?q=title%3Apython&l=san+francisco%2C+ca&radius=100 http://www.indeed.com/jobs?q=title%3Apython&l=san+franci...
- biohacker42 18y ago
  Does that indicate that a bulk of the C++ work in Seattle is related to Microsoft? Sweet Zombie Jesus, I like C++, but my hatred for COM burns brightly.

16 points by dshah 18y ago

I don't know what exactly the guy's point was, but I don't consider this a surprise. C++ and C# are still one of the best choices for developing standalone applications (C# when you are under Windows only and speed is not critical, C++ otherwise). If you are doing more scripting/web stuff, then you will use scripting languages for the job. What I would like to HN guys ask is this. I saw quite a lot of critique of C++ here, but really, what is a better choice for developing commercial standalone application, where speed is critical? I mean real established language with good library and IDE support. I am just really curious to know, I personally have nothing against anyone disliking C++. ;-)

dshah 18y ago
I was a bit surprised by this because I would have expected there to be lesser and lesser "stand-alone applications" (desktop applications) being developed amd more web applications. For web application development, I'd expect PHP/RoR to have a bigger footprint.
- greyman 18y ago
  I see your point. One reason could be, that while there might be less stand-alone applications under development (just an assumption, I don't know whether it is so), nowadays lot of them are big apps required a lot of programmers (for example in the project I work on, there are several hundreds developers ;-). In the web apps world, the teams are usually slimmer.
- iamelgringo 18y ago
  There may well be less stand alone applications being developed, but I have a hunch that the number of developers needed in a desktop application startup is substantially higher than the number of developers needed for a web application. If the scripting languages that are used have a 10:1 LOC advantage over Java/C/C++, then with an equal number of applications being developed, I'd assume that there would be 10x as many Java/C/C++ jobs available as Python/Ruby jobs. I'm wondering why there aren't more IronPython/IronRuby/F#/Powershell focused startups in the Microsoft world. It would seem like a competitive advantage.
biohacker42 18y ago
I've worked in C++ for many years, in both biotech and video editing, both have the same demands about speed and memory footprint, hence C++. But I also like Python, and I would be hard pressed to justify C++ for anything that doesn't truly need it. Still, I am pleasantly surprised C++ is in demand at startups.
alexk 18y ago
C++ has a great support and is stable, has a super powerful community, good libs (boost) C# is also good and stable, if you want Linux, you can use Mono. Java - is ok as well here, can be mixed with C++ I would personaly choose C++(low)/Python(high) pair for this task
timr 18y ago
I'm one of a small handful of C++ defenders on this site, and I don't think you're going to find a serious answer to your question here (assuming that you were asking a serious question, and weren't just lighting a flamewar.) Now, not to hold a match to the tinder or anything, but I think that part of the reason that there's such a vocal backlash against C++ is that a few generations of programmers have never been exposed to the language in school or work. Today, most college kids are being trained on some combination of Java and scripting languages, and (in an era of web apps and cheap hardware) have never had any real reason to use C++. That said, my opinion is that deep C++ (and C) knowledge is a litmus test for a good developer. If your only development experience is in perl/python/ruby/java, you're quite likely to be missing some important skills. On the flip side, a good C++ developer will be able to quickly pick up any dynamic language or programming paradigm you give her.
tomjen 18y ago
Ocaml, Haskell and SML all compile to native binary code.

lemonysnicket 18y ago

SEO

rms 18y ago
Yes, blogs are good for SEO. Have you ever considered starting one?

aschobel 18y ago

Doing the same search for San Francisco gives us very different results. Jobs with Java in the title (1,529) http://www.indeed.com/jobs?q=title%3Ajava&l=san+francisco%2C+ca&radius=100 http://www.indeed.com/jobs?q=title%3Ajava&l=san+francisc... Jobs with C++ in the title (476) http://www.indeed.com/jobs?q=title%3AC%2B%2B&l=san+francisco,+ca&radius=100 http://www.indeed.com/jobs?q=title%3AC%2B%2B&l=san+franc... Jobs with PHP in the title (326) http://www.indeed.com/jobs?q=title%3APHP&l=san+francisco%2C+ca&radius=100 http://www.indeed.com/jobs?q=title%3APHP&l=san+francisco... Jobs with C# in the title (224) http://www.indeed.com/jobs?l=san+francisco,+ca&q=title%3AC%23&radius=100 http://www.indeed.com/jobs?l=san+francisco,+ca&q=title%3... Jobs with Ruby in the title (217) http://www.indeed.com/jobs?q=title%3Aruby&l=san+francisco%2C+ca&radius=100 http://www.indeed.com/jobs?q=title%3Aruby&l=san+francisc... Jobs with Perl in the title (161) http://www.indeed.com/jobs?q=title%3Aperl&l=san+francisco%2C+ca&radius=100 http://www.indeed.com/jobs?q=title%3Aperl&l=san+francisc... Jobs with ASP in the title (101) http://www.indeed.com/jobs?q=title%3Aasp&l=san+francisco%2C+ca&radius=100 http://www.indeed.com/jobs?q=title%3Aasp&l=san+francisco... Jobs with Python in the title (90) http://www.indeed.com/jobs?q=title%3Apython&l=san+francisco%2C+ca&radius=100 http://www.indeed.com/jobs?q=title%3Apython&l=san+franci...

biohacker42 18y ago
Does that indicate that a bulk of the C++ work in Seattle is related to Microsoft? Sweet Zombie Jesus, I like C++, but my hatred for COM burns brightly.