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Over here in India there's a DND (Do Not Disturb) registry [1]. The link [1] links to Telecom Regulatory Authority of India (TRAI) website. You sign up to DND

by 2143 5y ago

Over here in India there's a DND (Do Not Disturb) registry [1]. The link [1] links to Telecom Regulatory Authority of India (TRAI) website. You sign up to DND by dialling a number that is dependent on your carrier (therefore you need to do this separately for all your phone numbers [3]), and go through the "Press 1 for English [2]... Press 2 for so and so... " etc. Takes a couple of minutes. Once I signed up, the number of marketing and similar silly calls/messages have been nearly eliminated. Maybe something similar — something that allows people to opt out of such calls/messages — can be implemented in USA. [1] https://trai.gov.in/faqcategory/unsolicited-commercial-communicationsucc https://trai.gov.in/faqcategory/unsolicited-commercial-commu... [2] The language question because there are plenty of languages in India. [3] Tangent: do people not use multiple phone numbers in USA? Like, I wanted to buy an iphone but it does not support multiple SIM cards (unless you convert one of the SIM to an e-sim [4] which I'm hesitant to do because if I later switch back to an Android phone that does not support e-sim, I'll have to go to my phone company to get a physical sim. Too many hassles. ). Also I'm told iphones sold in China has dual sim capability [5], but I can't go to China just to buy an iphone. [4] https://support.apple.com/en-ph/HT209044 https://support.apple.com/en-ph/HT209044 [5] https://support.apple.com/en-ph/HT209044 https://support.apple.com/en-ph/HT209044

kwhitefoot 5y ago
Same here in Norway. It is an offence to make an unsolicited commercial call to a number that has been on the register for more than a month. It can cost the caller 300 USD per call in fines. I have had perhaps two unsolicited calls in the last five years and one of those was from a number apparently in London, UK.
jedberg 5y ago
We have that here too. Usually when you sign up your spam calls actually increase because spammers use the list of "banned numbers" as a list of "verified numbers of real humans". With CallID spoofing its so hard to track down that violators never get enforced. In India you have the advantage that the caller pays, which means you have a phone system that somewhat securely verifies who the caller is so they can be billed. In the US the receiver pays so there is no system in place to verify who the caller is.
- LilBytes 5y ago
  Plus, if the call comes from overseas they're not going to respect the DND from your country unless the fake caller is also from your country of origin. I can't say definitively but the vast majority of my spam calls are from South Asia or South East Asia (I'd guess Philistines based on accent). They typically don't respect the Australian Do Not Call register so much.
- 2143 5y ago
  > Usually when you sign up your spam calls actually increase because spammers use the list Why is that information public? Shouldn't only the "middleware" equivalent be aware of who has signed up? > In the US the receiver pays so there is no system in place to verify who the caller is. What?! Why?!
- kwhitefoot 5y ago
  > In the US the receiver pays so there is no system in place to verify who the caller is. What? That's bonkers. Why on earth should the receiver pay?
  - Monotoko 5y ago
    I almost forgot about this rule, the receiver and the caller both pay for calls.
    - hansel_der 5y ago
      still bonkers until proven otherwise
    - mrkstu 5y ago
      Well, no one pays for a 'call'- generally in the US inbound/outbound calls are unlimited on a landline and lately on cell lines as well as minutes restrictions have dissipated. Growing up in the US you only had to worry about long distance or 'local long distance,' which, ironically, was often more expensive than regular long distance.
  - pards 5y ago
tallanvor 5y ago
Most of the scam calls and texts these days come from outside of the US, and unfortunately India is a huge source of those calls - wages are low and English language proficiency is high. And it's not just the US that has this problem. Here in Norway a common scam telemarketing call are "investment opportunities" that show up as coming from a UK number, and if you answer, it's very clear that the person is calling from a call center in India.
- 2143 5y ago
  If it makes you feel any better, Indians also get spam calls from other Indians. We hate it as much as you do.
  - tallanvor 5y ago
    Oh, I have no doubt, and to be clear, I'm not blaming India as a whole. I don't think India has a higher percentage of the population willing to try and scam other people, but given the number of people in the country, the economic situation, and the level of English language proficiency makes it a very attractive location to set up shop. It's also much harder for law enforcement to do much about the problem when the calls are coming from overseas.
scgtrp 5y ago
> do people not use multiple phone numbers in USA? Not really, no. Dual SIMs are kind of a niche feature here, and most users I've heard of do it with a US SIM plus one for some other country they travel to frequently. Curiosity: what are the use cases for two SIMs from the same country?
- hyperman1 5y ago
  I had it a while for a work and a personal phone number. Also when someone was sick and I took her phone calls. There are probably ways to reroute the phone calls, but this was quick, easy, and I can do it on my own without involving the phone company (any bigco tends to mess up anything you ask)
- 2143 5y ago
  > Curiosity: what are the use cases for two SIMs from the same country? I don't know the exact reason, but here are some thoughts on that: Hypothesis 1: In India, only the caller pays for the call. The callee pays nothing. I say this because I was surprised to learn that in USA, the callee pays. Long long ago — before calling via the internet through WhatsApp, Signal etc became a thing — in India if you (or rather, your SIM card) travel to another state within India (say from Kerala to Karnataka), your phone goes into a "roaming" mode. When you're in roaming (when your SIM is in a different state from where it was originally registered), both the caller AND the callee would have to pay. So, if you're from one state and you intend to live in another for a condsiderable amount of time (perhaps because you got a job in another state), then it makes sense to sign up for a new phone number in that new state so that you wouldn't be charged when you get calls from family and friends from your home state. However, this reason is no longer valid because in order to stay competitive phone companies stopped charging you for incoming calls if you go to another state within India. Hypothesis 2: Business people tend to have multiple phone numbers to handle the high volume of calls they receive, or to separate work and personal calls. Hypothesis 3 (my reason): I initially had a number that I used for personal calls. Later, a new provider came on the scene with better rates, faster internet, better clarity etc, and I signed up for that as well because why not. This was before phone number portability was introduced. My mobile data and work calls is through one provider, my WhatsApp is signed up via the other number, and most friends also call me via this other one. And in some places only one of the provider has a proper strong cell coverage. It's technically possible to merge that all into one number, but I haven't bothered. Also, calling directly via phone (as opposed to via the internet) is still very common here because it's super cheap. For example, calls from Jio to another Jio number is free I think.
rcMgD2BwE72F 5y ago
>Maybe something similar — something that allows people to opt out of such calls/messages — can be implemented in USA. Why not opt in instead?
signal11 5y ago
My Indian friends complain that despite being on the DND list, the unsolicited commercial message situation in India is pretty bad, due to the lack of data protection laws. > do people not use multiple phone numbers in USA? The e-SIM is the easiest way to get two numbers on the same iPhone. Having multi-SIM phones isn’t popular for a number of reasons, including the fact that Americans and Europeans can get a 2nd number via services like Skype and Vonage anytime they want — something India still prohibits. Incidentally I wrote about having multiple SIMs in India a week ago[1]… they’re an interesting historical accident, and the well-to-do in India will continue to use them, but they’ll become increasingly less common as telcos raise prices. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30770786 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30770786
pards 5y ago
Perhaps all of us in North America should sign up for the Indian DND list since that's where the majority of our spam calls originate! I signed up for the Canadian "do not call" lists when it came into effect and it only served to increase the spam calls/texts I receive.
- rapunkill 5y ago
  It's extreme but changing to a Qc number will prevent most spam calls

by 2143 5y ago

kwhitefoot 5y ago

Same here in Norway. It is an offence to make an unsolicited commercial call to a number that has been on the register for more than a month. It can cost the caller 300 USD per call in fines. I have had perhaps two unsolicited calls in the last five years and one of those was from a number apparently in London, UK.

jedberg 5y ago

We have that here too. Usually when you sign up your spam calls actually increase because spammers use the list of "banned numbers" as a list of "verified numbers of real humans". With CallID spoofing its so hard to track down that violators never get enforced. In India you have the advantage that the caller pays, which means you have a phone system that somewhat securely verifies who the caller is so they can be billed. In the US the receiver pays so there is no system in place to verify who the caller is.

LilBytes 5y ago
Plus, if the call comes from overseas they're not going to respect the DND from your country unless the fake caller is also from your country of origin. I can't say definitively but the vast majority of my spam calls are from South Asia or South East Asia (I'd guess Philistines based on accent). They typically don't respect the Australian Do Not Call register so much.
2143 5y ago
> Usually when you sign up your spam calls actually increase because spammers use the list Why is that information public? Shouldn't only the "middleware" equivalent be aware of who has signed up? > In the US the receiver pays so there is no system in place to verify who the caller is. What?! Why?!
kwhitefoot 5y ago
> In the US the receiver pays so there is no system in place to verify who the caller is. What? That's bonkers. Why on earth should the receiver pay?
- Monotoko 5y ago
  I almost forgot about this rule, the receiver and the caller both pay for calls.
  - hansel_der 5y ago
    still bonkers until proven otherwise
  - mrkstu 5y ago
    Well, no one pays for a 'call'- generally in the US inbound/outbound calls are unlimited on a landline and lately on cell lines as well as minutes restrictions have dissipated. Growing up in the US you only had to worry about long distance or 'local long distance,' which, ironically, was often more expensive than regular long distance.
- pards 5y ago

tallanvor 5y ago

Most of the scam calls and texts these days come from outside of the US, and unfortunately India is a huge source of those calls - wages are low and English language proficiency is high. And it's not just the US that has this problem. Here in Norway a common scam telemarketing call are "investment opportunities" that show up as coming from a UK number, and if you answer, it's very clear that the person is calling from a call center in India.

2143 5y ago
If it makes you feel any better, Indians also get spam calls from other Indians. We hate it as much as you do.
- tallanvor 5y ago
  Oh, I have no doubt, and to be clear, I'm not blaming India as a whole. I don't think India has a higher percentage of the population willing to try and scam other people, but given the number of people in the country, the economic situation, and the level of English language proficiency makes it a very attractive location to set up shop. It's also much harder for law enforcement to do much about the problem when the calls are coming from overseas.

scgtrp 5y ago

> do people not use multiple phone numbers in USA? Not really, no. Dual SIMs are kind of a niche feature here, and most users I've heard of do it with a US SIM plus one for some other country they travel to frequently. Curiosity: what are the use cases for two SIMs from the same country?

hyperman1 5y ago
I had it a while for a work and a personal phone number. Also when someone was sick and I took her phone calls. There are probably ways to reroute the phone calls, but this was quick, easy, and I can do it on my own without involving the phone company (any bigco tends to mess up anything you ask)
2143 5y ago
> Curiosity: what are the use cases for two SIMs from the same country? I don't know the exact reason, but here are some thoughts on that: Hypothesis 1: In India, only the caller pays for the call. The callee pays nothing. I say this because I was surprised to learn that in USA, the callee pays. Long long ago — before calling via the internet through WhatsApp, Signal etc became a thing — in India if you (or rather, your SIM card) travel to another state within India (say from Kerala to Karnataka), your phone goes into a "roaming" mode. When you're in roaming (when your SIM is in a different state from where it was originally registered), both the caller AND the callee would have to pay. So, if you're from one state and you intend to live in another for a condsiderable amount of time (perhaps because you got a job in another state), then it makes sense to sign up for a new phone number in that new state so that you wouldn't be charged when you get calls from family and friends from your home state. However, this reason is no longer valid because in order to stay competitive phone companies stopped charging you for incoming calls if you go to another state within India. Hypothesis 2: Business people tend to have multiple phone numbers to handle the high volume of calls they receive, or to separate work and personal calls. Hypothesis 3 (my reason): I initially had a number that I used for personal calls. Later, a new provider came on the scene with better rates, faster internet, better clarity etc, and I signed up for that as well because why not. This was before phone number portability was introduced. My mobile data and work calls is through one provider, my WhatsApp is signed up via the other number, and most friends also call me via this other one. And in some places only one of the provider has a proper strong cell coverage. It's technically possible to merge that all into one number, but I haven't bothered. Also, calling directly via phone (as opposed to via the internet) is still very common here because it's super cheap. For example, calls from Jio to another Jio number is free I think.

rcMgD2BwE72F 5y ago

>Maybe something similar — something that allows people to opt out of such calls/messages — can be implemented in USA. Why not opt in instead?

signal11 5y ago

My Indian friends complain that despite being on the DND list, the unsolicited commercial message situation in India is pretty bad, due to the lack of data protection laws. > do people not use multiple phone numbers in USA? The e-SIM is the easiest way to get two numbers on the same iPhone. Having multi-SIM phones isn’t popular for a number of reasons, including the fact that Americans and Europeans can get a 2nd number via services like Skype and Vonage anytime they want — something India still prohibits. Incidentally I wrote about having multiple SIMs in India a week ago[1]… they’re an interesting historical accident, and the well-to-do in India will continue to use them, but they’ll become increasingly less common as telcos raise prices. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30770786 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30770786

pards 5y ago

Perhaps all of us in North America should sign up for the Indian DND list since that's where the majority of our spam calls originate! I signed up for the Canadian "do not call" lists when it came into effect and it only served to increase the spam calls/texts I receive.

rapunkill 5y ago
It's extreme but changing to a Qc number will prevent most spam calls