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Tell HN: I just open-sourced the e-mail client I spent 2 years of my life on
If you are interested in the internals of such a piece of software, check out the code. or even better fork it and fix the bugs :-)
Some info:
- Pretty decent amount of press: http://www.inbox2.com/press
- About 100K downloads
- Built by 1 dev, 1 part-time interaction dev and 1 designer, all pretty much during the evenings and weekends
- Beautifully looking, but nevertheless a commercial failure because nobody will pay for email (now paying for data is a whole other story)
- Learned more while building this thing then in all my previous ~10 years of consulting combined
- mrschwabe 15y agoImpressive looking product. Your efforts shine through. Great work man. Now I will ask the inevitable question: why did you open source it?
- waseemsadiq 15y agoWell we could build 'a' business out of it, but we realized it wouldn't be a scalable business. For a couple of reasons: * We tried to do to much (classic mistake -> email + social + contacts...) * There are way too many ways that people use e-mail (folders, labels, rules, sorting, etc, etc) * Because there are too many ways you can not create a commercially viable alternative that fits a large nr. of users Truth be told, we didn't even want to create an e-mail client but rather wanted to fix e-mail workflow. We never ended up being able to do that due to forementioned reasons. We intend to rectify that in a couple of our other products. We still see a need (and people actually ask for it) for a unified e-mail/social inbox. So we thought to have the open-source community have a go at it.
- eykanal 15y agoExcellent answer, and I love your thought process. Why have all your work go to waste not publishing it? This way, you don't have to worry about the inevitable "Why doesn't it do <random fringe feature>? I NEED that in my workflow!", you still get good recognition in the field, and all us users benefit from another good email client.
- erikb 15y agoI would still try to put any kind of businessmodel onto it and look if any money comes out. Now you are here on the mainpage and thus much more famous. Having your source code in the open doesn't mean you don't see a paycheck for your work! (especially when most of your page views will come from HNers, who value great coding work and thus are more willing to pay for it, even if they don't have to. Think about this one article about Textmate2 some days ago.)
- websymphony 15y agoKudos to you for taking such a brave decision. Can we know the story behind it?
- nmcfarl 15y agoLooks like there is a little bit of the story here: http://blog.inbox2.com/we-are-launching-a-new-product http://blog.inbox2.com/we-are-launching-a-new-product
- r4vik 15y agoLooks great, maybe you can monetise it by bundling some add on web services? xobni / rapportive / cloud backup & search?
- nalidixic 15y agoAny blog links?
- egiva 15y ago"Second" on the desire for some blog links - or other links to info on your work, process, project info, etc.
- deleted 15y ago[deleted]
- anoother 15y agohttp://blog.inbox2.com/ http://blog.inbox2.com/ Seems like iPad is their primary focus. Some info on how/why the desktop client came about/was open-sourced would be nice.. http://www.inbox2.com/open-source http://www.inbox2.com/open-source is a little sparse...
- mamatta 15y agohttp://blog.inbox2.com/ http://blog.inbox2.com/
- e1ven 15y agoIt looks like this was forked from (or to) an iPad version? It's probably a lot easier to sell there, granted. It looks like a nice client- What are it's distinguishing features? What needs help? What are your intentions now- To throw it out there, or keep building it? Are there binaries? How are you handling the Messages in-memory? I'm looking for a mail client that can handle my multi-hundred-thousand email inbox, but everyone except Mulberry tends to have a problem ;) Looks really sharp. Kinda reminds me of FF with the tabs at the top.
- stfu 15y agoDid you give the "new" Opera a try in regards to your large email "collection"? I had similar issues in the past, but the new version is surprisingly good in handling large repositories. Just as an idea ;)
- e1ven 15y agoTrue! I did use that for 2-3 months over the summer (version 11? 11.5?) , and it worked reasonably well. I eventually moved away, because it had a bunch of locking pauses.. I'm not sure what caused them. My guess is that when checking for mail in account A, account B,C,D would lock up? I'll give it another shot.
- waseemsadiq 15y agoActually those are completely seperate products. One written in .net/c#, the other in objective c / pure c. Some of the concepts have been "forked" tho. Actually with the ipad app we are not even trying to create an email client (doesn't look like it currently) but more of a email communication tool. Sounds vague but in the coming weeks things will clear up.
- feydr 15y agomutt
- ars 15y agopine
- qrush 15y agoWhat license is this under? :(
- afsgdhfj 15y agoLooks like public-domain now, since no license mentioned: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_domain http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_domain
- simonbrown 15y agoI'm no lawyer, but I'm pretty sure public domain is not the default.
- loumf 15y agoAlso not a lawyer, but pretty sure that no license is the same as "All rights reserved" (meaning, the most restrictive possible). Claiming "All rights reserved" doesn't give you more rights, but does establish that you communicated it and that anyone violating it had a better chance of knowing that. (I think -- not a lawyer) His statement to fork, fix, and ask for pulls perhaps gives some rights, but not usage or deployment ones. In other word, if the author intends something else, they should say so. EDIT: just noticed ThirdParty folder -- that changes the default to whatever is compatible with the licenses asserted in these libraries. I didn't check them.
- sadfasdfads 15y agoHmm- I think that is a grey area. Note what is said here about default license/rights on GitHub as of 10-7-2011: "Copyright and Content Ownership We claim no intellectual property rights over the material you provide to the Service. Your profile and materials uploaded remain yours. However, by setting your pages to be viewed publicly, you agree to allow others to view your Content. By setting your repositories to be viewed publicly, you agree to allow others to view and fork your repositories. GitHub does not pre-screen Content, but GitHub and its designee have the right (but not the obligation) in their sole discretion to refuse or remove any Content that is available via the Service. You shall defend GitHub against any claim, demand, suit or proceeding made or brought against GitHub by a third party alleging that Your Content, or Your use of the Service in violation of this Agreement, infringes or misappropriates the intellectual property rights of a third party or violates applicable law, and shall indemnify GitHub for any damages finally awarded against, and for reasonable attorney’s fees incurred by, GitHub in connection with any such claim, demand, suit or proceeding; provided, that GitHub (a) promptly gives You written notice of the claim, demand, suit or proceeding; (b) gives You sole control of the defense and settlement of the claim, demand, suit or proceeding (provided that You may not settle any claim, demand, suit or proceeding unless the settlement unconditionally releases GitHub of all liability); and (c) provides to You all reasonable assistance, at Your expense. The look and feel of the Service is copyright ©2011 GitHub Inc. All rights reserved. You may not duplicate, copy, or reuse any portion of the HTML/CSS, Javascript, or visual design elements or concepts without express written permission from GitHub." http://help.github.com/terms-of-service/ http://help.github.com/terms-of-service/
- malux85 15y agoSwish. Very sexy. I love it
- achompas 15y agoCongrats on creating such a nice client. And in C#, no less! Your title implies that your hand might've been forced here. Was that the case? Would you have preferred to keep it closed?
- chriseidhof 15y agoI also wondered about the story. Looks like they made an iPad version instead: http://www.inbox2.com http://www.inbox2.com
- hm2k 15y agoSo where do I download the binary for windows?
- tomkinstinch 15y agoLooks good! It reminds me of Sparrow for Mac a bit.
- gtrak 15y agois the ipad port also in C#? How do you make something so native-looking?
- waseemsadiq 15y agoIts native objective-c / built in xcode
- philipthrasher 15y agoCould it be? Someone has finally made an aesthetically pleasing Windows App? Thank you for being design conscious. If only more developers like you existed on that platform.
- jstepien 15y agoCould we a have a binary version, please? It would definitely help evaluating your project.
- waseemsadiq 15y agoI will compile an installer version later. Keep an eye on the github page for updates.
- consonaut 15y agoThere already is an installer in the repo. https://github.com/waseems/inbox2_desktop/tree/master/Code/Client/Installer https://github.com/waseems/inbox2_desktop/tree/master/Code/C...
- deleted 15y ago[deleted]
- biot 15y agoThey relaxed the Objective C only position quite some time ago.
- kevinherron 15y agoAnybody want to build and host the binary somewhere? I tried to build in Visual C# Express 2010 and was unsuccessful...
- consonaut 15y agoUse the installer found at https://github.com/waseems/inbox2_desktop/tree/master/Code/Client/Installer https://github.com/waseems/inbox2_desktop/tree/master/Code/C...
- waseemsadiq 15y agoHah didn't even know that was in there! :-)
- consonaut 15y agoOnly thing I can say so far is that it looks nice ;-) Appreciate the work, I'll try to contribute if I get the chance.
- krmmalik 15y agoJust got really excited about this and tried it on my iPad. I managed to set the accounts up no problem but on downloading data it just keeps bombing out on me, and now i cant get back into the app.
- waseemsadiq 15y agoWe just released a new version to the app store like 15 minutes ago, try again. Could you send me a crash report to waseem@inbox2.com otherwise? thx
- krmmalik 15y agoHow do i send you a crash report? - Sorry im rather average when it comes to iOS I tried the new update, its definitely a little more stable but it's still bombing out on me :(
- waseemsadiq 15y agoFollow the instructions on this page: https://culturedcode.com/things/wiki/index.php/Sending_crash_reports_from_iPad_(FAQ) https://culturedcode.com/things/wiki/index.php/Sending_crash... but e-mail them to waseem@inbox2.com Thanks!
- biot 15y agoFrom the blog: > For the last one week, a considerable number of people who > have downloaded the Inbox2 app have had issues. > > The main reason for this was that our infrastructure was not > scaling fast enough at the rate the app was being downloaded. Why does an email client depend on your infrastructure?
- waseemsadiq 15y agoActually the client doesn't but we also have another version which runs in the cloud. Old versions of the ipad app were hooked up to that, newer versions are completely stand alone so that has also changed in the mean while... hey what can I say, we move fast :-)
- biot 15y agoWhat was the benefit of such an arrangement? My email server is already "in the cloud" so to speak. As it's a downloaded app, what value was added from a man in the middle, as it were?
- waseemsadiq 15y agoWell the cloud is always on and online. Additionally we want to work with metadata which we want to store in the cloud and is not supported by for ex. the IMAP protocol. I can't go into to much details regarding our product roadmap but having a cloud backend really helps. Another concrete case is new email notifications. When our ipad is not the active app we simply are not able to inform you when new mail arrives (due to apple background app restrictions). With a client/cloud hybrid we can do the heavy lifting on the client and use the cloud for example to send notifications when new mail arrives.
- biot 15y agoThe cloud is always on and online? I don't mean to be argumentative, but your cloud apparently couldn't handle the load. Downloading an email client shouldn't require a "hit by a bus" analysis of the app's creators. An app can store metadata locally; no need to have that on your servers. No doubt you can do some interesting things by having a server-side infrastructure, but I'm concerned about the security implications. If your server gets hacked, an attacker would have access to all of my email. Not to mention that you would have access to all of my email and why should I trust you?
- vandahm 15y agoThis looks amazing, and I'm looking forward to compiling and running it on my Windows machine later today. I'm accustomed to simple and elegant apps like Sparrow and Mail.app on OS X and get really frustrated when I have to use clunky Windows mail readers. This looks like a huge step forward in many ways. Great job, and thanks for sharing.
- krmmalik 15y agoPS. Just in case you're all wondering, their company name "Tabdelee" is Urdu for "change" as in 'We want to change the world '
- waseemsadiq 15y agonice catch :-)
- krmmalik 15y agoand suddenly HN becomes a cartel of Urdu speakers ;-)
- revorad 15y agoKya baat hai!
- sharjeel 15y agoBadal do zamana!
- suhastech 15y agoHe started writing this just to open source it... http://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=waseemsadiq http://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=waseemsadiq Cool!
- waseemsadiq 15y agoWell not entirely true, that other post is actually about a experimental gmail plugin that I made. It hooked up in gmail and added something that we call the people centric inbox, never released tho
- suhastech 15y agoI think I was using your inbox2.com web version. I was a fan of that. I know, this might be too much to ask, but can you open source that too? The thing is, I've have never quite learnt to parse raw mime email. I don't quite get the million RFC rules imposed. And great work!
- thetruthsayer 15y agoThank you for doing this - we need more stuff out there like that. I've had a quick scan through the code and it's very well written, thoughtful c# code. It's also nice to see something that uses MEF. Great work! Please can you clarify the license though
- joelthelion 15y agoDoes this work on Linux with Mono?
- emp_ 15y ago98 compilation errors out of the box, this is going to be a long afternoon, but looks like it's worth it!
- waseemsadiq 15y agoActually make sure that you choose the x86 in the configuration manager dropdown and everything goes away. Sorry, should have mentioned it in the README, will update later
- donniefitz2 15y agoYeah, don't use the 64bit. The non-64 worked great for me. After that go to the installer directory and run the installer.
- kvnn 15y agoThe screenshot looks amazing. You should be proud! Well done! Are you planning to make a profit? Did you always intend to open source it?
- AmazingBytecode 15y agoThank you. I admire your contribution to the public. :)
- qasar 15y agoGood work Waseem/Khuram. Inbox2 going to live on for the iPad? Moving into 500?
- waseemsadiq 15y agothx, yes and yes :-)
- firefoxman1 15y agoWow, as soon as I saw the screenshot I thought: "Beautiful." It kind of reminds me of the Mozilla Raindrop project. That is just a really great UI.
- alanh 15y agoOne of the most Mac-like Windows apps I have ever seen, barring iTunes & Safari, of course.
- mcantelon 15y agoA good addition to the readme might be to say what operating system it's for.
- nihilius 15y agohttp://www.virustotal.com/file-scan/report.html?id=0a425d193470d86f7a5d450d81e750330e56a6bea1946847b0dc6f71eca9d539-1318019770 http://www.virustotal.com/file-scan/report.html?id=0a425d193... Jiangmin 13.0.900 2011.10.07 Adware/Agent.gmc False Scan or Thread?
- waseemsadiq 15y agoHmm build the installer yourself if you don't trust it, beauty of open source :-) Interesting though...
- rcfox 15y agoBuilding it yourself doesn't protect you from malicious code. Some better advice would be to review the code yourself before building.
- consonaut 15y agoYou do realize that you scanned the installer and not the msi package or the contents of it, thereby making your scan almost useless?
- alimbada 15y agoMy first thought was "oh, another e-mail client", but it has some very nifty features. Well done. Sent a pull request, by the way.
- donniefitz2 15y agoThis is awesome. I've been looking for something like this for Windows for a long time. You put some serious effort into this and it's beautiful. FYI - for those looking to run this: open the non-64 bit solution, build it, then go to the installer directory and run the windows installer. Works really nicely.
- Blunt 15y agoFirst of all, Thank you for the contribution to the OSS community but I just have to ask one question. With all the language wars and what not: 1. This is written in C#, correct? 2. Two full years of your life - do you literally mean 40+ Hours/week? If this took two full years as in 40hours/week or working on it full time, I'm shocked it took two years. SMTP, POP3, and IMAPv4 are exceedingly simple protocols and the UI just seems to look like standard controls, no custom UI elements. Just had to ask. I know I could probably whip together a decent email client in C++ within a couple months from scratch and maybe a week or two if I used any number of libraries out there.
- waseemsadiq 15y ago1. correct 2. not as a paying fulltime job, but still probably around 30-40 hours a week 3. good luck with that, I also thought I could whip up the first version in 3 months... :-) Its not writing the code that takes so damn long its getting the machine and the user experience/expectance aligned.
- teyc 15y agothank you for being so honest. A full answer would take a whole book, but could you outline what part of the process was unwieldy, and what you had to rewrite as you learned more about the user experience? In particular, since you are using WPF, would you have altered your prototyping process so that it was more user experience focussed?
- waseemsadiq 15y agoI will probably do a full blog post today on all the questions asked here then submit that to HN
- ataranto 15y ago"I know I could probably whip together a decent email client in C++ within a couple months from scratch and maybe a week or two if I used any number of libraries out there." Want to know how I know that you've never written an email client?
- a3_nm 15y agoThe github page has a screenshot, but no features list. It could be a good idea to add one. Right now, I still don't have any idea of what makes your email client different from any other, and why I would want to use it.
- frankydp 15y agoBeautiful. Big fan.
- Soliah 15y agoJust browsing the code on Github I noticed that there aren't any unit tests. I'd be interested in seeing what type of testing you did.
- itsnotvalid 15y agoI used it may be once when it was in beta and then never touched. The thing is, C# as well as Java have poor startup time which becomes the biggest problem of using any of such applications. I don't always have a SSD on my computers.