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I disagree with a statement in the article: "As a tech employee, if you can’t bear overtime, you can pivot to other industries. But the social problem is not go

by ISL 5y ago

I disagree with a statement in the article: "As a tech employee, if you can’t bear overtime, you can pivot to other industries. But the social problem is not going to be solved because you quit." Quitting is the most powerful signal a worker can send. It pushes up the price of that work and is the strongest-possible declaration that something is wrong. Source: Have quit from a field that I love deeply because the environment became intolerable. Furthermore, I've now signed on to a new line of work precisely because the environment is so supportive.

joe_the_user 5y ago
I would be curious which line of work you find has such a supportive environment, we hear so much about environments that are unsupportive.
- langsoul-com 5y ago
  I believe those fields are where there's high demand but not enough supply. China tech can treat people like shit because there's always someone to replace them. I think the stats were more engineers graduate from China come out than the entire history of USA engineers each year. When there's high demand, then any place that systematically treats people like shit would not retain workers and die off. Of course, exceptions exist for places that pay shit tons of money.
- rmbyrro 5y ago
  They probably don't want to push down the price of their work
- michaelt 5y ago
  Personally, I've found the western tech industry treats employees extremely well, compared to any other job I've had. Flexible hours and dress code, excellent pay, light supervision, hundreds of employers, air-conditioned offices, great safety record, interesting and meaningful work for those that want it - and it barely needs a college degree. It's not perfect, but it's better than 95% of jobs out there. (Of course, the games programming industry is to be avoided at all costs)
- ISL 5y ago
  Come join us at Rover. Our team and adjoining teams are hiring for Business Analysts, Data Engineers, Software Engineers, and more in the US and EU. https://www.rover.com/careers/search/ https://www.rover.com/careers/search/ https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30533028 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30533028 The company takes its values seriously. https://www.rover.com/careers/core-values/ https://www.rover.com/careers/core-values/
3pt14159 5y ago
Unless the field is small with very inelastic supply demand curves it won't change much for a small percentage of workers to leave. The forces that got those that would leave the position in the first place often still exist. People will train for a role, even a bad one if it puts food on the table.
dragonwriter 5y ago
> Quitting is the most powerful signal a worker can send And, yet, a worker quitting has close to zero effect on an industry of the scale of the one which is at issue. That it is the most powerful tool you have does not make it a tool that is effective.
- patmcc 5y ago
  One worker quitting has zero effect. Many workers quitting can change an industry.
  - hklgny 5y ago
    you should visit china sometime - this isn't always the case and certainly isn't for the folks you're talking about
    - patmcc 5y ago
      I was thinking more of the 'typical' (western) HN audience and gp (ISL) specifically - but absolutely agreed, this advice does not work nearly as well in all places.
xwolfi 5y ago
Yeah, I'm a tech worker in China, I quit a 6AM - 11 PM, 6 days a week job (that I loved, a global startup, blah blah) to work as ... exactly doing the same thing in an investment bank and be paid double for 9am-7pm You know what we bemoaned the most in my previous startup, when hiring ? We couldn't compete with the banks :D You bet, at 9000 USD a month for 50 hours weeks, feels like the post office :D Everyone knows, btw, that it's a problem, but it's not going to be solved as long as clients expect China to be cheaper, and when it stops, this expectation, we aren't gonna be able to compete because we're not any better quality-wise than the rest. I think India already is the new China and us we're stuck with robot employees that demand more and more money without really giving clients something in exchange :s And our internal market isn't developing fast enough: in fact, the population even decreases so :s

by ISL 5y ago

joe_the_user 5y ago

I would be curious which line of work you find has such a supportive environment, we hear so much about environments that are unsupportive.

langsoul-com 5y ago
I believe those fields are where there's high demand but not enough supply. China tech can treat people like shit because there's always someone to replace them. I think the stats were more engineers graduate from China come out than the entire history of USA engineers each year. When there's high demand, then any place that systematically treats people like shit would not retain workers and die off. Of course, exceptions exist for places that pay shit tons of money.
rmbyrro 5y ago
They probably don't want to push down the price of their work
michaelt 5y ago
Personally, I've found the western tech industry treats employees extremely well, compared to any other job I've had. Flexible hours and dress code, excellent pay, light supervision, hundreds of employers, air-conditioned offices, great safety record, interesting and meaningful work for those that want it - and it barely needs a college degree. It's not perfect, but it's better than 95% of jobs out there. (Of course, the games programming industry is to be avoided at all costs)
ISL 5y ago
Come join us at Rover. Our team and adjoining teams are hiring for Business Analysts, Data Engineers, Software Engineers, and more in the US and EU. https://www.rover.com/careers/search/ https://www.rover.com/careers/search/ https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30533028 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30533028 The company takes its values seriously. https://www.rover.com/careers/core-values/ https://www.rover.com/careers/core-values/

3pt14159 5y ago

Unless the field is small with very inelastic supply demand curves it won't change much for a small percentage of workers to leave. The forces that got those that would leave the position in the first place often still exist. People will train for a role, even a bad one if it puts food on the table.

dragonwriter 5y ago

> Quitting is the most powerful signal a worker can send And, yet, a worker quitting has close to zero effect on an industry of the scale of the one which is at issue. That it is the most powerful tool you have does not make it a tool that is effective.

patmcc 5y ago
One worker quitting has zero effect. Many workers quitting can change an industry.
- hklgny 5y ago
  you should visit china sometime - this isn't always the case and certainly isn't for the folks you're talking about
  - patmcc 5y ago
    I was thinking more of the 'typical' (western) HN audience and gp (ISL) specifically - but absolutely agreed, this advice does not work nearly as well in all places.

xwolfi 5y ago

Yeah, I'm a tech worker in China, I quit a 6AM - 11 PM, 6 days a week job (that I loved, a global startup, blah blah) to work as ... exactly doing the same thing in an investment bank and be paid double for 9am-7pm You know what we bemoaned the most in my previous startup, when hiring ? We couldn't compete with the banks :D You bet, at 9000 USD a month for 50 hours weeks, feels like the post office :D Everyone knows, btw, that it's a problem, but it's not going to be solved as long as clients expect China to be cheaper, and when it stops, this expectation, we aren't gonna be able to compete because we're not any better quality-wise than the rest. I think India already is the new China and us we're stuck with robot employees that demand more and more money without really giving clients something in exchange :s And our internal market isn't developing fast enough: in fact, the population even decreases so :s