6 ms·

Interesting. I find innovation in TV's to be opposite of my desired direction. Smarts that make them slower, wifi, ads, slowness,forced firmware updates, slowne

Interesting. I find innovation in TV's to be opposite of my desired direction. Smarts that make them slower, wifi, ads, slowness,forced firmware updates, slowness, unfathomable picture controls and auto magic colour correction that's Gawd awful, unresponsiveness and slowness. So I'm more likely to use my monitor as a TV then to want to use tv as monitor. I'm also clinging to my 2008 46" lcd tv that just works, and am stunned by how often my father in law has to call for my help with his shiny 76" tv which is showing blue screen of death or mandatory update or things have moved or icons have changed or their version of Netflix / Disney / whatever app is borked or needs maintenance or no longer supported or just looks different... And slower. Always ever slower.... the slowness of response is astonishing. Reminds me of new cars where if last driver had volume set up max, you can't kill the radio or volume until car is done telling you about its disclaimers and boot up sequence and pretty animation. If you can't move in menus or mute instantly, than no thank you to innovation.

gutitout 5y ago
Software is too much. But OP is talking a lot hardware.
- mnkmnk 5y ago
  Yes, where are the quantum dots, the local dimming, the mini leds that TVs have?
  - cercatrova 5y ago
    New models of monitor have released with quantum dot OLED which are brighter than traditional OLEDs. This is not to be confused with QLED which is simply LED not OLED.
Aeolun 5y ago
I think it would be shocking to todays people to see a TV from 20 years ago, before all that digital funkiness. Instant switching between channels.
- loonster 5y ago
  Imagine if they were exposed to a laser disk fast forward / skip. Gasp
  - rootusrootus 5y ago
    Or an old copper phone line before cellular ruined call quality.
- rosndo 5y ago
  I certainly don’t miss switching channels. TV experience 20 years ago sucked. Now I can have all the content I could ever want immediately accessible via Plex, no need to fiddle with DVDs or gasp VHS tapes. Commercials? hah. Unskippable anti-piracy warnings? nope.
FpUser 5y ago
>"Interesting. I find innovation in TV's to be opposite of my desired direction. Smarts that make them slower, wifi, ads, slowness,forced firmware updates, slowness, unfathomable picture controls and auto magic colour correction that's Gawd awful, unresponsiveness and slowness." Maybe just do not connect it to a network ever. At least I don't. I've used TV as a monitor for a while but after some time strain in the neck showed up I downsized to 32" 4K monitor
- anonymousab 5y ago
  > Maybe just do not connect it to a network ever. This is slowly but surely not becoming an option. Beyond automatically connecting to any open networks, some models already will stop working until you give them a network connection to perform a 'necessary' periodic update.
  - FpUser 5y ago
    Hopefully not all the models will stop working. But we will see. I am an old fart and hate all this sneaking in my backyard. I am fiercely independent and trying to stay this way as much as reasonably possible. Alexa has no place in my life. It can go fuck somebody else.
  - Wowfunhappy 5y ago
    Wait, what TV’s are doing this? Automatically connecting to open networks sounds like a potential legal quagmire, since aiui I’m not legally allowed to just use my neighbor’s wifi without permission.
- alias_neo 5y ago
  In one sense, yes, but if you live somewhere where energy is expensive why have not only my TV (~30W) on but also the PS5 (~100W+ + ~30W) or gaming PC (~200W+ + ~30W) just so I can watch Netflix? I'll choose to use the TV's app every time. I have a higher-end LG 4K OLED with WebOS which is extremely responsive compared to others I've had, also it's rooted to block any ad-crap, but also you can do most of that at the DNS/Network/Router level if you have an issue. Then there's the fact that the non-tech family members don't want to use more than one remote or fiddle with channels etc, my wife can press the Netflix button in the remote from TV off and have instant Netflix and tue surround sound on too. Younger me would have agreed with you, but as a parent and husband, in my mid 30s, I just want an easy life.
stepanhruda 5y ago
Maybe he got a large but shitty quality TV? I got an OLED 2 years ago and none of this rings a bell.
- NikolaNovak 5y ago
  Possible. But this thread is a comparison of tv vs monitor. If we are talking 5000$ tv, that's no longer a relevant comparison. (Fwiw though my impression was that it was a mid grade brand name tv. Certainly not a no name bottom tier).
metadat 5y ago
Never attach a "Smart TV" to WiFi. As a rule of thumb, they'll only get worse. Once the manufacturer sells the TV, they don't give a fuck about you anymore, they're already paid! Though they would like to push updates to send you more ads and track you. I've never attached my 2020 LG 4k 65" to any network and it works great. I did pay $50 to add a GoggleTV CrapCast thing, it works fine for watching movies.
- unicornporn 5y ago
  > I've never attached my 2020 LG 4k 65" to any network and it works great. I guess that would work as long as you move to a place far away from humanity. It definitely won't work if a neighbour runs a WiFi hotspot without password protection.
  - hawk_ 5y ago
    I have not come across a working password free residential wifi hotspot in almost a decade - because routers have had passwords by default.
    - mcculley 5y ago
      I live in an apartment building downtown adjacent to other buildings. They are all around me.
      - metadat 5y ago
        My observation is the open wifi's are much more prevalent in dense living situations like apartments, condos, townhomes, and shared work spaces.
  - Art9681 5y ago
    What would happen if you configured manual network and gave it a fake DNS or sent it over to PiHole for example? Wouldnt there be plenty of ways to capture the traffic and stop it from going where it wants to go? I would think the tech savvy folks on this site would be able to figure something out if it is a big enough concern of theirs.
wowokay 5y ago
I think better examples would be the lack of motion control, unlike computers the bulk of content experienced on TVs expects to run at specific refresh rates. Innovations like OLED which offer instantaneous response rates cause issue for that media when expected pixel dimming latency is expected. Causing motion like pan shots to appear jittery. TVS need innovation that focuses on feathering motion, since it's clear the TV and Movie industry have no plans to bump frame rate.
- mattgreenrocks 5y ago
  This is why I passed on an OLED when upgrading my TV. OLED is definitely the future, I just have little desire to beta test it with jittery panning. I’m sure they’ll sort it out.
  - brokenmachine 5y ago
    My 2017 OLED looks fantastic. Movie cinemas are dead to me now. I would never switch back to a shitty LCD. Or even a "good" LCD. I'm super sensitive to jitter as well, so your information about OLEDs being jittery is wrong.
    - mattgreenrocks 5y ago
      Thanks for the correction. I may wish I purchased a C1 after all!
- majormajor 5y ago
  OLED doesn't have any new issues here compared to LCD. Both sorts of TVs will often have "black frame" insertion options, but I've never found the flicker worthwhile. Smooth panning would be fixed by content being shot at something higher than 24fps, like you say; but I've seen that same jitter in theater screens for decades, it wasn't something that was designed to depend on CRT tech or such (like videogame lightguns). TVs have been doing tons of "smart" picture processing to try to smooth out motion since so much content is so low frame rate. It just often looks fake!
Kiro 5y ago
I can't relate to any of this at all. My Smart TV (LG) is not slow or unresponsive. It doesn't show any ads and the picture control is easy to understand.
- lelandfe 5y ago
  Well done picking a good TV. Unfortunately even other LG TVs are doing this: https://twitter.com/chriswelch/status/1369733357756686349 https://twitter.com/chriswelch/status/1369733357756686349 Many, many smart TVs send analytic data to marketing companies. Some even send full snapshots of the screen. https://archive.ph/DWTGC https://archive.ph/DWTGC > When tracking is active, some TVs record and send out everything that crosses the pixels on your screen. It doesn’t matter whether the source is cable, an app, your DVD player or streaming box. > Many of the TV companies say they aren’t violating our privacy, because ACR data technically isn’t “personally identifiable information.” TVs, they say, are shared by an entire household.
- Retric 5y ago
  Don’t connect it to WiFi and update. 2020 LG CX OLED TV randomly started to play ads after update: https://www.theverge.com/tldr/2021/3/10/22323790/lg-oled-tv-commercials-content-store https://www.theverge.com/tldr/2021/3/10/22323790/lg-oled-tv-...
Art9681 5y ago
Disconnect the TV from wifi and enable GameMode to bypass most of the post processing. Disable HDR on the OS. On some TV models, there is an additional trick to rename the input port to "PC" and it reduces input lag even more. Use a good web app that guides you to some basic calibration, especially brightness/contrast/gamma. Those 3 things can be changed in your display driver's control panel and TV. So fiddling with both to get a "perfect" image goes a long way. Once you have the configs you like, take some pics or save them in a note somewhere in case you need to restore. I play Steam Games on a 77" OLED like this and the only reason I dont use it for normal day to day development is I dont have a suitable recliner keyboard/mouse setup. Got the TV for $2,000 from Woot a year ago and it is the VRR model. Why are monitors with similar capabilities at a third of the size so expensive?
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- zamadatix 5y ago
  Disabling HDR is akin to buying a sports car and throwing your hands in the air when you can't figure out how to start it outside of eco mode. The same for any tweaking on the driver's control panel instead of on the display. Ultimately though the truth is when you go through all of that hassle (special input ports, special input names, advanced/hidden input settings, image adjustments) it still somehow comes out worse than it should be in terms of input latency and image accuracy. I always have 2 wishes: - For TVs to have a mode that just displays the signal according the reference mode of that signal (particularly for HDR) and not fuck with it to make it "better". - For a decent selection of monitors that come with larger panels.

gutitout 5y ago

Software is too much. But OP is talking a lot hardware.

mnkmnk 5y ago
Yes, where are the quantum dots, the local dimming, the mini leds that TVs have?
- cercatrova 5y ago
  New models of monitor have released with quantum dot OLED which are brighter than traditional OLEDs. This is not to be confused with QLED which is simply LED not OLED.

Aeolun 5y ago

I think it would be shocking to todays people to see a TV from 20 years ago, before all that digital funkiness. Instant switching between channels.

loonster 5y ago
Imagine if they were exposed to a laser disk fast forward / skip. Gasp
- rootusrootus 5y ago
  Or an old copper phone line before cellular ruined call quality.
rosndo 5y ago
I certainly don’t miss switching channels. TV experience 20 years ago sucked. Now I can have all the content I could ever want immediately accessible via Plex, no need to fiddle with DVDs or gasp VHS tapes. Commercials? hah. Unskippable anti-piracy warnings? nope.

FpUser 5y ago

>"Interesting. I find innovation in TV's to be opposite of my desired direction. Smarts that make them slower, wifi, ads, slowness,forced firmware updates, slowness, unfathomable picture controls and auto magic colour correction that's Gawd awful, unresponsiveness and slowness." Maybe just do not connect it to a network ever. At least I don't. I've used TV as a monitor for a while but after some time strain in the neck showed up I downsized to 32" 4K monitor

anonymousab 5y ago
> Maybe just do not connect it to a network ever. This is slowly but surely not becoming an option. Beyond automatically connecting to any open networks, some models already will stop working until you give them a network connection to perform a 'necessary' periodic update.
- FpUser 5y ago
  Hopefully not all the models will stop working. But we will see. I am an old fart and hate all this sneaking in my backyard. I am fiercely independent and trying to stay this way as much as reasonably possible. Alexa has no place in my life. It can go fuck somebody else.
- Wowfunhappy 5y ago
  Wait, what TV’s are doing this? Automatically connecting to open networks sounds like a potential legal quagmire, since aiui I’m not legally allowed to just use my neighbor’s wifi without permission.
alias_neo 5y ago
In one sense, yes, but if you live somewhere where energy is expensive why have not only my TV (~30W) on but also the PS5 (~100W+ + ~30W) or gaming PC (~200W+ + ~30W) just so I can watch Netflix? I'll choose to use the TV's app every time. I have a higher-end LG 4K OLED with WebOS which is extremely responsive compared to others I've had, also it's rooted to block any ad-crap, but also you can do most of that at the DNS/Network/Router level if you have an issue. Then there's the fact that the non-tech family members don't want to use more than one remote or fiddle with channels etc, my wife can press the Netflix button in the remote from TV off and have instant Netflix and tue surround sound on too. Younger me would have agreed with you, but as a parent and husband, in my mid 30s, I just want an easy life.

stepanhruda 5y ago

Maybe he got a large but shitty quality TV? I got an OLED 2 years ago and none of this rings a bell.

NikolaNovak 5y ago
Possible. But this thread is a comparison of tv vs monitor. If we are talking 5000$ tv, that's no longer a relevant comparison. (Fwiw though my impression was that it was a mid grade brand name tv. Certainly not a no name bottom tier).

metadat 5y ago

Never attach a "Smart TV" to WiFi. As a rule of thumb, they'll only get worse. Once the manufacturer sells the TV, they don't give a fuck about you anymore, they're already paid! Though they would like to push updates to send you more ads and track you. I've never attached my 2020 LG 4k 65" to any network and it works great. I did pay $50 to add a GoggleTV CrapCast thing, it works fine for watching movies.

unicornporn 5y ago
> I've never attached my 2020 LG 4k 65" to any network and it works great. I guess that would work as long as you move to a place far away from humanity. It definitely won't work if a neighbour runs a WiFi hotspot without password protection.
- hawk_ 5y ago
  I have not come across a working password free residential wifi hotspot in almost a decade - because routers have had passwords by default.
  - mcculley 5y ago
    I live in an apartment building downtown adjacent to other buildings. They are all around me.
    - metadat 5y ago
      My observation is the open wifi's are much more prevalent in dense living situations like apartments, condos, townhomes, and shared work spaces.
- Art9681 5y ago
  What would happen if you configured manual network and gave it a fake DNS or sent it over to PiHole for example? Wouldnt there be plenty of ways to capture the traffic and stop it from going where it wants to go? I would think the tech savvy folks on this site would be able to figure something out if it is a big enough concern of theirs.

wowokay 5y ago

I think better examples would be the lack of motion control, unlike computers the bulk of content experienced on TVs expects to run at specific refresh rates. Innovations like OLED which offer instantaneous response rates cause issue for that media when expected pixel dimming latency is expected. Causing motion like pan shots to appear jittery. TVS need innovation that focuses on feathering motion, since it's clear the TV and Movie industry have no plans to bump frame rate.

mattgreenrocks 5y ago
This is why I passed on an OLED when upgrading my TV. OLED is definitely the future, I just have little desire to beta test it with jittery panning. I’m sure they’ll sort it out.
- brokenmachine 5y ago
  My 2017 OLED looks fantastic. Movie cinemas are dead to me now. I would never switch back to a shitty LCD. Or even a "good" LCD. I'm super sensitive to jitter as well, so your information about OLEDs being jittery is wrong.
  - mattgreenrocks 5y ago
    Thanks for the correction. I may wish I purchased a C1 after all!
majormajor 5y ago
OLED doesn't have any new issues here compared to LCD. Both sorts of TVs will often have "black frame" insertion options, but I've never found the flicker worthwhile. Smooth panning would be fixed by content being shot at something higher than 24fps, like you say; but I've seen that same jitter in theater screens for decades, it wasn't something that was designed to depend on CRT tech or such (like videogame lightguns). TVs have been doing tons of "smart" picture processing to try to smooth out motion since so much content is so low frame rate. It just often looks fake!

Kiro 5y ago

I can't relate to any of this at all. My Smart TV (LG) is not slow or unresponsive. It doesn't show any ads and the picture control is easy to understand.

lelandfe 5y ago
Well done picking a good TV. Unfortunately even other LG TVs are doing this: https://twitter.com/chriswelch/status/1369733357756686349 https://twitter.com/chriswelch/status/1369733357756686349 Many, many smart TVs send analytic data to marketing companies. Some even send full snapshots of the screen. https://archive.ph/DWTGC https://archive.ph/DWTGC > When tracking is active, some TVs record and send out everything that crosses the pixels on your screen. It doesn’t matter whether the source is cable, an app, your DVD player or streaming box. > Many of the TV companies say they aren’t violating our privacy, because ACR data technically isn’t “personally identifiable information.” TVs, they say, are shared by an entire household.
Retric 5y ago
Don’t connect it to WiFi and update. 2020 LG CX OLED TV randomly started to play ads after update: https://www.theverge.com/tldr/2021/3/10/22323790/lg-oled-tv-commercials-content-store https://www.theverge.com/tldr/2021/3/10/22323790/lg-oled-tv-...

Art9681 5y ago

Disconnect the TV from wifi and enable GameMode to bypass most of the post processing. Disable HDR on the OS. On some TV models, there is an additional trick to rename the input port to "PC" and it reduces input lag even more. Use a good web app that guides you to some basic calibration, especially brightness/contrast/gamma. Those 3 things can be changed in your display driver's control panel and TV. So fiddling with both to get a "perfect" image goes a long way. Once you have the configs you like, take some pics or save them in a note somewhere in case you need to restore. I play Steam Games on a 77" OLED like this and the only reason I dont use it for normal day to day development is I dont have a suitable recliner keyboard/mouse setup. Got the TV for $2,000 from Woot a year ago and it is the VRR model. Why are monitors with similar capabilities at a third of the size so expensive?

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
zamadatix 5y ago
Disabling HDR is akin to buying a sports car and throwing your hands in the air when you can't figure out how to start it outside of eco mode. The same for any tweaking on the driver's control panel instead of on the display. Ultimately though the truth is when you go through all of that hassle (special input ports, special input names, advanced/hidden input settings, image adjustments) it still somehow comes out worse than it should be in terms of input latency and image accuracy. I always have 2 wishes: - For TVs to have a mode that just displays the signal according the reference mode of that signal (particularly for HDR) and not fuck with it to make it "better". - For a decent selection of monitors that come with larger panels.