3 ms·

It's maladaptive for some, but also effective for some others. It can be wielded as a weapon to destroy one's competition and enemies. It works especially well

by jsnk 5y ago

It's maladaptive for some, but also effective for some others. It can be wielded as a weapon to destroy one's competition and enemies. It works especially well against whichever group of population that has more tendency to self-reflect and have capacity to feel shame. Whereas if a population doesn't feel shame or less shame or construct the standard so that the shaming only applies to one group but not the other, it can thrive in this kind of environment.

hunglee2 5y ago
yes quite right, it even seems to be the case that being entirely shameless is a political advantage in a representative democratic system. Trump, Johnson, Bolsonaro, Modi - distinct politicians but all share the common theme of being able to avoid the penalty of shame but being conspicuously shameless
KarlKemp 5y ago
That’s the kind of reasoning people want to be true, as in „I’m not lazy, it’s just my perfectionism…“ Can anyone tag some name onto these shameless and shameful tribes? Because I can’t come up with anything that I would want to be associated with.
- visarga 5y ago
  Guilt–shame–fear spectrum of cultures https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guilt%E2%80%93shame%E2%80%93fear_spectrum_of_cultures https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guilt%E2%80%93shame%E2%80%93fe...
  - KarlKemp 5y ago
    That's really interesting, thank you. I'd always considered guilt and shame to be correlated, as two sides of the same medal. And believe the person above also conflated the two, since their "shamelessness" is really an inability to experience guilt. So maybe the problem is that guilt (felt by the person without specific external input) stopped working, and shaming is taking its place?
    - krageon 5y ago
      Why do you believe a lack of (feelings of) guilt is a problem?
  - akomtu 5y ago
    This looks a lot like one occult classification of souls: there are 3 positive types (those driven by action/will, love/compassion and wisdom/knowledge) and 3 negative types (posturing, vanity and fear). Every cycle of civilization is started by the former types, and are gradually replaced by the latter types. This wiki page describes the 3 negative types, and the 3 different cultures they create. The posturing types want appearance of being strong and wise, they are those pseudo-scientists and fake saints, so they create a guilt society. The vanity types want to feel morally superior to others, they enjoy creating contrived dogmas and making others navigate these dogmatic mazes, and they create a shame society. Finally, the fear types create a fear society: in the final stage of every cycle, when the strongest of the fear types are ruling the world, they create a death cult, with dark temples and other attributes. The wiki page doesn't mention societies created by the 3 positive types, aka the "golden age" of every civilisation.

by jsnk 5y ago

hunglee2 5y ago

yes quite right, it even seems to be the case that being entirely shameless is a political advantage in a representative democratic system. Trump, Johnson, Bolsonaro, Modi - distinct politicians but all share the common theme of being able to avoid the penalty of shame but being conspicuously shameless

KarlKemp 5y ago

That’s the kind of reasoning people want to be true, as in „I’m not lazy, it’s just my perfectionism…“ Can anyone tag some name onto these shameless and shameful tribes? Because I can’t come up with anything that I would want to be associated with.

visarga 5y ago
Guilt–shame–fear spectrum of cultures https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guilt%E2%80%93shame%E2%80%93fear_spectrum_of_cultures https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guilt%E2%80%93shame%E2%80%93fe...
- KarlKemp 5y ago
  That's really interesting, thank you. I'd always considered guilt and shame to be correlated, as two sides of the same medal. And believe the person above also conflated the two, since their "shamelessness" is really an inability to experience guilt. So maybe the problem is that guilt (felt by the person without specific external input) stopped working, and shaming is taking its place?
  - krageon 5y ago
    Why do you believe a lack of (feelings of) guilt is a problem?
- akomtu 5y ago
  This looks a lot like one occult classification of souls: there are 3 positive types (those driven by action/will, love/compassion and wisdom/knowledge) and 3 negative types (posturing, vanity and fear). Every cycle of civilization is started by the former types, and are gradually replaced by the latter types. This wiki page describes the 3 negative types, and the 3 different cultures they create. The posturing types want appearance of being strong and wise, they are those pseudo-scientists and fake saints, so they create a guilt society. The vanity types want to feel morally superior to others, they enjoy creating contrived dogmas and making others navigate these dogmatic mazes, and they create a shame society. Finally, the fear types create a fear society: in the final stage of every cycle, when the strongest of the fear types are ruling the world, they create a death cult, with dark temples and other attributes. The wiki page doesn't mention societies created by the 3 positive types, aka the "golden age" of every civilisation.