4 ms·

bleak. why are there minimum wage laws that don't apply to everyone?

lostlogin 5y ago
Having a universal law would soon hit into some huge structural problems. Maybe rail actually is more efficient? Maybe cheap prison labour isn’t the best way to do things? Maybe massive too management wages while the bottom tier get less than a living wage is bad?
after_care 5y ago
There are millions of jobs that minimum wage laws do not apply to in the US. * Tip workers * Gig workers * Undocumented workers
- jnwatson 5y ago
  Tip workers absolute have the same minimum wage laws. The minimum wage is lower ($2.13) and they are guaranteed to make at least the regular minimum wage if by their tips are not high enough
  - pbhjpbhj 5y ago
    You just confused two things, tips are not wages, if you get a tip that's a gratuity from a customer. The customer isn't paying to relieve the owners of paying [minimum] wages, they're giving a gift to the people who served them. The level of tip (your last sentence) has nothing to do with a person's wages, they either get a minimum _wage_ or they don't. Reducing their wage because they got a tip would be not paying minimum wage; it would also be callously transferring a tip from a worker to an owner. If the owner wants to be richer stealing the tips is not the way, it's immoral for one. An owner should put up sales prices or have a separate 'jar' for "tips for the owner".
    - jnwatson 5y ago
      You’re literally arguing against the FLSA. Any dollar a customer tips counts as “tip credit” that an employer can deduct from that employee’s minimum wage. See https://www.paychex.com/articles/human-resources/tip-credits#definition https://www.paychex.com/articles/human-resources/tip-credits...
      - pbhjpbhj 5y ago
        Employers can legally do all sorts of immoral things. Which country is FLSA in, presumably USA?
  - boulos 5y ago
    This depends on the state. In California, there isn't a separate "tipped minimum wage". Waiters in San Francisco thus make at least $16.32/hr ($16.99 starting in July) plus tips. Some restaurants are trying to replace tips with service charges or higher prices, because the back of the house (cooks, dishwashers, etc.) do not receive tips [1]. The current pay at a decent but not high end restaurant like Zuni is upwards of $70k/yr (the $35/hr mentioned in the article). [1] https://www.sfchronicle.com/food/article/Legendary-Zuni-Cafe-is-getting-rid-of-tips-16157619.php https://www.sfchronicle.com/food/article/Legendary-Zuni-Cafe...
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- thaumasiotes 5y ago
  Minimum wage laws do apply to tipped workers in the US.
8bitsrule 5y ago
"Truck drivers, farm workers, and restaurant staff are exempt from the Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA)." Not the bleakest [1], but yeah, bleak. Long, lonely, boring, life-sucking, thankless hours. Essential, yet at the Bottom of the 'skilled' totem-pole. Mostly these people are heros, and our lives are dependent on their sacrifices. (Many heavy-equipment drivers are 'skilled' enough to make much more - but working conditions are similar). FLSA created in 1938 (end of Depression) by US Congress. Same body that has left minimum wage at $7.25 for 13 years. The best in the OECD (Australia) is US$12.9 (much more in line with purchasing power.) [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimum_wage_in_the_United_States#Low-paying_occupations:_2006_and_2009 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimum_wage_in_the_United_Sta...

Having a universal law would soon hit into some huge structural problems. Maybe rail actually is more efficient? Maybe cheap prison labour isn’t the best way to do things? Maybe massive too management wages while the bottom tier get less than a living wage is bad?

after_care 5y ago

There are millions of jobs that minimum wage laws do not apply to in the US. * Tip workers * Gig workers * Undocumented workers

jnwatson 5y ago
Tip workers absolute have the same minimum wage laws. The minimum wage is lower ($2.13) and they are guaranteed to make at least the regular minimum wage if by their tips are not high enough
- pbhjpbhj 5y ago
  You just confused two things, tips are not wages, if you get a tip that's a gratuity from a customer. The customer isn't paying to relieve the owners of paying [minimum] wages, they're giving a gift to the people who served them. The level of tip (your last sentence) has nothing to do with a person's wages, they either get a minimum _wage_ or they don't. Reducing their wage because they got a tip would be not paying minimum wage; it would also be callously transferring a tip from a worker to an owner. If the owner wants to be richer stealing the tips is not the way, it's immoral for one. An owner should put up sales prices or have a separate 'jar' for "tips for the owner".
  - jnwatson 5y ago
    You’re literally arguing against the FLSA. Any dollar a customer tips counts as “tip credit” that an employer can deduct from that employee’s minimum wage. See https://www.paychex.com/articles/human-resources/tip-credits#definition https://www.paychex.com/articles/human-resources/tip-credits...
    - pbhjpbhj 5y ago
      Employers can legally do all sorts of immoral things. Which country is FLSA in, presumably USA?
- boulos 5y ago
  This depends on the state. In California, there isn't a separate "tipped minimum wage". Waiters in San Francisco thus make at least $16.32/hr ($16.99 starting in July) plus tips. Some restaurants are trying to replace tips with service charges or higher prices, because the back of the house (cooks, dishwashers, etc.) do not receive tips [1]. The current pay at a decent but not high end restaurant like Zuni is upwards of $70k/yr (the $35/hr mentioned in the article). [1] https://www.sfchronicle.com/food/article/Legendary-Zuni-Cafe-is-getting-rid-of-tips-16157619.php https://www.sfchronicle.com/food/article/Legendary-Zuni-Cafe...
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
thaumasiotes 5y ago
Minimum wage laws do apply to tipped workers in the US.

8bitsrule 5y ago

"Truck drivers, farm workers, and restaurant staff are exempt from the Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA)." Not the bleakest [1], but yeah, bleak. Long, lonely, boring, life-sucking, thankless hours. Essential, yet at the Bottom of the 'skilled' totem-pole. Mostly these people are heros, and our lives are dependent on their sacrifices. (Many heavy-equipment drivers are 'skilled' enough to make much more - but working conditions are similar). FLSA created in 1938 (end of Depression) by US Congress. Same body that has left minimum wage at $7.25 for 13 years. The best in the OECD (Australia) is US$12.9 (much more in line with purchasing power.) [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimum_wage_in_the_United_States#Low-paying_occupations:_2006_and_2009 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimum_wage_in_the_United_Sta...