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Uhh. The ARM-based M1 Mac mini is literally sold at Best Buy for under $700. It will run circles around any desktop PC within the same price range. And yes,

Uhh. The ARM-based M1 Mac mini is literally sold at Best Buy for under $700. It will run circles around any desktop PC within the same price range. And yes, the Raspberry Pi 4/400 is perfectly usable for general desktop computing for students. The default desktop OS is intuitive and it includes modern browsers, can watch Netflix/Disney+ DRM media, and run LibreOffice or WPS Office. Similarly, the Pine64 Pinebook Pro is actually quite serviceable for general desktop use at < $250, but you can also buy a $999 M1 MacBook Air at Best Buy if your needs cannot be satisfied by sub $250 computers.

ChuckNorris89 5y ago
Afaik the raspberry PI can't hardware accelerate stuff like Netflix in Browser so video watching experience is pretty ass.
- liamwestray 5y ago
  You can do 1080p on the Pi4. https://itnext.io/the-2021-onward-guide-to-install-netflix-on-raspberry-pi-smartphone-as-the-remote-control-2e7662ccc80 https://itnext.io/the-2021-onward-guide-to-install-netflix-o... Edit: I've personally done it in browser. It works.
  - ChuckNorris89 5y ago
    Sure, but only once you tinker with it, not out if the box with Raspbian.
    - liamwestray 5y ago
      I've done it on Raspberry Pi OS. Edit: https://www.tomshardware.com/news/raspberry-pi-widevine https://www.tomshardware.com/news/raspberry-pi-widevine
      - ChuckNorris89 5y ago
        Like I said, you have to tinker with it first. Your average Walmart buyer doesn't want to Google tutorials and do stuff from the command line to get HW accelerated YouTube and Netflix when every $200 Android phone can do that out of the box without any tinkering.
        liamwestray 5y ago
        HW accelerated Youtube already works out of the box on Raspberry Pi OS. It is less complicated to setup a Raspberry Pi than install Windows 11. Your average Walmart buyers don't even run antivirus, setup Google/Apply/Samsung Pay, install Microsoft Office, or know how to make a Windows 10/11 USB installer. $200 Android phones are notorious for not actually working correctly in getting apps to run.
        ChuckNorris89 5y ago
        >HW accelerated Youtube already works out of the box on Raspberry Pi OS. Yeah, only if you run some commands in the terminal from a tutorial, to enable that. That's where you loose most average joe consumers. >It is less complicated to setup a Raspberry Pi than install Windows 11. Your average consumer has no idea and no intention on installing an OS, that's why all machines at Walmart come with one preinstalled including Macs and PC Laptops. >$200 Android phones are notorious for not actually working correctly in getting apps to run. Funny, I have a 200 EUro Android phone that runs everything correctly including HW accelerated Youtube and Netflix out of the box. I guess your $200 Android phones are just broken somehow. Maybe return them or file a RMA ticket.
    - liamwestray 5y ago
      Doing 3 commands on Raspberry Pi OS to update the OS to the latest version and install a single program is not tinkering. sudo apt update sudo apt full-upgrade sudo apt install libwidevinecdm0 There's no configuration to edit/change. There's no credit card or account setup necessary to download the app. This is objectively easier than setting up a new android device.
      - ChuckNorris89 5y ago
        Your average consumer won't want to run commands in there terminal to get a usable experience, regardless of how easy it is for you and me and everyone here.
digitallyfree 5y ago
Well the Macs are marketed to consumers, the Pi and the Pinebook are not - they're seen as techie or hobbyist Linux devices. The general consumer looking for a non-Apple computer would simply dismiss these options and pick up a "regular" x86, even if the cheap ARM machine may fit their needs.
- liamwestray 5y ago
  Regardless, Mac minis go on sale for under $600 and provide probably the best consumer computing experience in the world for the least amount of money. The guy saying he can't go into Best Buy and buy a consumer ARM machine has ignored the last 2 years.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
a9h74j 5y ago
Also honorable mention: Arm-based chromebooks, for some purposes.
pjmlp 5y ago
> Uhh. The ARM-based M1 Mac mini is literally sold at Best Buy for under $700. So basically two months of salary for the average person in Portugal, and many more months in lesser fortunate parts of the globe.
- ChuckNorris89 5y ago
  Also, let's not forget that Apple stuff is usually more expensive outside the US, especially if you live in poor countries with high inflation and high taxes on imports. Are Portugal wages that low though? $350 is an average monthly wage in Russia, being lower than Romania or Bulgaria. I doubt the average Portuguese is that broke.
  - pjmlp 5y ago
    Yes, they are currently around 400 euros before taxes. In many companies you will be getting around 1000 euros for a job out of university.
    - liamwestray 5y ago
      Minimum wage in Portugal is $740 Euro per month. That's nowhere near the median or average.
      - pjmlp 5y ago
        Yeah when you are on a proper contract.
  - makapuf 5y ago
    Not that changes the bar of your argument, but it seems really low. I don't know this website, but it seems to indicate 2750 eur as average salary. http://www.salaryexplorer.com/salary-survey.php?loc=174&loctype=1 http://www.salaryexplorer.com/salary-survey.php?loc=174&loct...
    - pjmlp 5y ago
philliphaydon 5y ago
You can also buy mini nuc boxes with amd chips which will run circuses around the Mac mini for gaming.

ChuckNorris89 5y ago

Afaik the raspberry PI can't hardware accelerate stuff like Netflix in Browser so video watching experience is pretty ass.

liamwestray 5y ago
You can do 1080p on the Pi4. https://itnext.io/the-2021-onward-guide-to-install-netflix-on-raspberry-pi-smartphone-as-the-remote-control-2e7662ccc80 https://itnext.io/the-2021-onward-guide-to-install-netflix-o... Edit: I've personally done it in browser. It works.
- ChuckNorris89 5y ago
  Sure, but only once you tinker with it, not out if the box with Raspbian.
  - liamwestray 5y ago
    I've done it on Raspberry Pi OS. Edit: https://www.tomshardware.com/news/raspberry-pi-widevine https://www.tomshardware.com/news/raspberry-pi-widevine
    - ChuckNorris89 5y ago
      Like I said, you have to tinker with it first. Your average Walmart buyer doesn't want to Google tutorials and do stuff from the command line to get HW accelerated YouTube and Netflix when every $200 Android phone can do that out of the box without any tinkering.
      - liamwestray 5y ago
        HW accelerated Youtube already works out of the box on Raspberry Pi OS. It is less complicated to setup a Raspberry Pi than install Windows 11. Your average Walmart buyers don't even run antivirus, setup Google/Apply/Samsung Pay, install Microsoft Office, or know how to make a Windows 10/11 USB installer. $200 Android phones are notorious for not actually working correctly in getting apps to run.
        ChuckNorris89 5y ago
        >HW accelerated Youtube already works out of the box on Raspberry Pi OS. Yeah, only if you run some commands in the terminal from a tutorial, to enable that. That's where you loose most average joe consumers. >It is less complicated to setup a Raspberry Pi than install Windows 11. Your average consumer has no idea and no intention on installing an OS, that's why all machines at Walmart come with one preinstalled including Macs and PC Laptops. >$200 Android phones are notorious for not actually working correctly in getting apps to run. Funny, I have a 200 EUro Android phone that runs everything correctly including HW accelerated Youtube and Netflix out of the box. I guess your $200 Android phones are just broken somehow. Maybe return them or file a RMA ticket.
  - liamwestray 5y ago
    Doing 3 commands on Raspberry Pi OS to update the OS to the latest version and install a single program is not tinkering. sudo apt update sudo apt full-upgrade sudo apt install libwidevinecdm0 There's no configuration to edit/change. There's no credit card or account setup necessary to download the app. This is objectively easier than setting up a new android device.
    - ChuckNorris89 5y ago
      Your average consumer won't want to run commands in there terminal to get a usable experience, regardless of how easy it is for you and me and everyone here.

digitallyfree 5y ago

Well the Macs are marketed to consumers, the Pi and the Pinebook are not - they're seen as techie or hobbyist Linux devices. The general consumer looking for a non-Apple computer would simply dismiss these options and pick up a "regular" x86, even if the cheap ARM machine may fit their needs.

liamwestray 5y ago
Regardless, Mac minis go on sale for under $600 and provide probably the best consumer computing experience in the world for the least amount of money. The guy saying he can't go into Best Buy and buy a consumer ARM machine has ignored the last 2 years.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]

a9h74j 5y ago

Also honorable mention: Arm-based chromebooks, for some purposes.

pjmlp 5y ago

> Uhh. The ARM-based M1 Mac mini is literally sold at Best Buy for under $700. So basically two months of salary for the average person in Portugal, and many more months in lesser fortunate parts of the globe.

ChuckNorris89 5y ago
Also, let's not forget that Apple stuff is usually more expensive outside the US, especially if you live in poor countries with high inflation and high taxes on imports. Are Portugal wages that low though? $350 is an average monthly wage in Russia, being lower than Romania or Bulgaria. I doubt the average Portuguese is that broke.
- pjmlp 5y ago
  Yes, they are currently around 400 euros before taxes. In many companies you will be getting around 1000 euros for a job out of university.
  - liamwestray 5y ago
    Minimum wage in Portugal is $740 Euro per month. That's nowhere near the median or average.
    - pjmlp 5y ago
      Yeah when you are on a proper contract.
- makapuf 5y ago
  Not that changes the bar of your argument, but it seems really low. I don't know this website, but it seems to indicate 2750 eur as average salary. http://www.salaryexplorer.com/salary-survey.php?loc=174&loctype=1 http://www.salaryexplorer.com/salary-survey.php?loc=174&loct...
  - pjmlp 5y ago

philliphaydon 5y ago

You can also buy mini nuc boxes with amd chips which will run circuses around the Mac mini for gaming.