3 ms·

Further your assertion by discussing the real concern: uncertainty. It seems to take generations for health problems with novel products that humans ingest to

Further your assertion by discussing the real concern: uncertainty. It seems to take generations for health problems with novel products that humans ingest to materialize. We have millennia of experience with cross breeding, animal husbandry, etc. Why trust these salesmen of genetically modified organisms, the same gentlemen who gleefully introduce pesticides into the environment, when we know that traditional hybrid crops and selectively-bred livestock provide ample nourishment? Is optimizing for per-acre yields at the risk hazard the environment and human health worthwhile?

sokoloff 5y ago
That depends in large part on whether a world population of 8B can be fed at the lower per-acre yields. If the alternative is “everyone eats, but food is a little more expensive”, that’s OK. If the alternative is “billions live with insufficient food and 100s of millions die”, then I think the balance of the risk equation shifts.
rocqua 5y ago
To avoid malthusian traps we do need per-acre yields to be higher and higher. Increasing yields is not just about farmers profits, also about feeding the world. That does not mean it is a good idea to trade long term damage for short term yields. But yields are still important.
- imtringued 5y ago
  >To avoid malthusian traps we do need per-acre yields to be higher and higher. Increasing yields is not just about farmers profits, also about feeding the world. This is illogical. The only places that experience excessive population growth are those that haven't developed their basic agricultural sectors and rely on labor intensive subsistence farming which means having children who work on your farm is not a drag on your household. The reason why those people do subsistence farming is actually quite ironic, because they cannot afford to run commercial farms as those would have to compete with hyper optimized western farms so instead every poor nation is forced to sell its raw resources and cash crops and then buy food from developed countries. You can't sustain a population on vanilla but since western and asian countries cannot compete on e.g. coffee or vanilla production in Madagascar that nation can use the proceeds to import rice. The problem isn't an inability to grow rice, after all, people do subsistence farming and live off it their entire life.

sokoloff 5y ago

That depends in large part on whether a world population of 8B can be fed at the lower per-acre yields. If the alternative is “everyone eats, but food is a little more expensive”, that’s OK. If the alternative is “billions live with insufficient food and 100s of millions die”, then I think the balance of the risk equation shifts.

rocqua 5y ago

To avoid malthusian traps we do need per-acre yields to be higher and higher. Increasing yields is not just about farmers profits, also about feeding the world. That does not mean it is a good idea to trade long term damage for short term yields. But yields are still important.

imtringued 5y ago
>To avoid malthusian traps we do need per-acre yields to be higher and higher. Increasing yields is not just about farmers profits, also about feeding the world. This is illogical. The only places that experience excessive population growth are those that haven't developed their basic agricultural sectors and rely on labor intensive subsistence farming which means having children who work on your farm is not a drag on your household. The reason why those people do subsistence farming is actually quite ironic, because they cannot afford to run commercial farms as those would have to compete with hyper optimized western farms so instead every poor nation is forced to sell its raw resources and cash crops and then buy food from developed countries. You can't sustain a population on vanilla but since western and asian countries cannot compete on e.g. coffee or vanilla production in Madagascar that nation can use the proceeds to import rice. The problem isn't an inability to grow rice, after all, people do subsistence farming and live off it their entire life.