4 ms·

It's frighteningly easy for children to get their hands on materials like arsenic and thallium. All they need is a credit card and a YouTube tutorial helpfully

It's frighteningly easy for children to get their hands on materials like arsenic and thallium. All they need is a credit card and a YouTube tutorial helpfully walking them through the dosage. I used to share your perspective. Then I ended up with a [step]kid whose only interests in medicine and engineering keep me awake at night.

Loughla 5y ago
You can buy most of these things on amazon with one click. Source: all of the chemicals I've purchased to blow up tree stumps and what-not that I'm sure have me on some watch list somewhere.
- s0rce 5y ago
  You can get thallium on Amazon? I can't think of a common consumer application of thallium is it in some product?
  - duskwuff 5y ago
    There is at least one vendor selling a sample of thallium in an acrylic cube as a collector's item. Unclear how much is actually present, but any perceptible amount would be pretty dangerous if removed from its enclosure.
  - dekhn 5y ago
    WARNING: this is serious stuff. Read https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/ershdb/emergencyresponsecard_29750026.html https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/ershdb/emergencyresponsecard_29750... and https://www.science.org/content/blog-post/thallium-poisoning-day-and-age https://www.science.org/content/blog-post/thallium-poisoning... and https://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/chemist-poisoning-death-nj/1971606/ https://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/chemist-poisoning... I think you have to go to specialty suppliers. https://luciteria.com/elements-for-sale/thallium-metal-9999 https://luciteria.com/elements-for-sale/thallium-metal-9999
    - s0rce 5y ago
      Yah, no shortage of suppliers for thallium, I was just surprised you could find it on Amazon since its not really used for any consumer product I was aware of https://www.alfa.com/en/catalog/012131/ https://www.alfa.com/en/catalog/012131/ https://www.sigmaaldrich.com/US/en/product/aldrich/277932 https://www.sigmaaldrich.com/US/en/product/aldrich/277932
marginalia_nu 5y ago
I get where you're coming from. I knew a kid who was really into making explosives, he ended up blowing himself up one night after cooking up a batch of TATP. Pretty tragic story, he was a bright kid. As I remember, I think he had a single mom who couldn't quite be there for him. I think the best way of dealing with that sort of situation is to find them a mentor or role model that can show them how it's actually done and turn the interest into something that can be explored safely. I think if my friend had actually known real chemists that could mentor him and that he could talk to about his projects, there's a chance he might have been alive today. There are things that have an element of danger, and then there are things that are reckless bordering on suicidal. Any real world chemist would probably just stare at you in disbelief if you told them you wanted to make TATP in your bedroom. That isn't just dangerous, it's moronic, beyond reckless. This stuff is highly explosive and notoriously difficult to handle because of its volatility and propensity for spontaneous detonation. You don't know that if you're 15 and getting all your advice from the Internet, though. You may even hear a nickname like "mother of satan" and think it sounds pretty cool. Turns out chemists usually give substances nicknames like that for a reason. I think what's the most dangerous is kids experimenting alone without any experience based advice from some dodgy internet forum.
- Zak 5y ago
  IIRC, it was terrorists, who often refuse to work with the stuff due to the danger involved, who named TATP "mother of satan".
  - marginalia_nu 5y ago
    Ok, but my point remains. The fact it has a bad reputation for blowing people up among people who have a bad reputation for blowing people up is pretty telling.
    - Zak 5y ago
      I think it strengthens your point. We expect most chemists to be somewhat cautious and prudent, but not terrorists.
zen_1 5y ago
"All they need is a credit card and ..." The idea of children having access to a credit card strikes me as dangerous and irresponsible for many more reasons than just the odd chance that they use it to buy chemicals online. If you want to buy something as a child, you use cash or get a parent's permission. (Preempting the "ok boomer" responses, I'm 22 this year)
- cableshaft 5y ago
  It's possible they have access to the credit card without permission. Most people don't keep their credit cards locked up in a gun safe. Mine could be retrieved right now out of my wallet lying on a tray in my living room. I also don't have children, so I'm not particularly concerned personally. I haven't caught my dogs buying anything online yet.
  - elliekelly 5y ago
    Children don't even need to root around in a parent's wallet. They can just ask Alexa.
  - zen_1 5y ago
    Stealing your parent's credit card strikes me as the more pressing issue here, rather than a youtube video that shows you how to do something dangerous.
  - vorpalhex 5y ago
    If your kid can and will do things like steal your credit card, make unauthorized purchases and buy explosives.. the problem is not that William Osman didn't wear PPE.
    - zen_1 5y ago
      I remember my own experience with "youtube explosives" as a kid. I'd watched NurdRage's video [1] on how to extract lithium from a certain type of battery and thought that sounded like fun, so I asked my father to help me get the batteries needed. When he then asked me why I needed this specific type of (not cheap) battery, I showed him [1] and he said "That looks dangerous and fun, let's do it together" (or something to that effect). One hour and some needle nose pliers later, we're down one battery and a burn hole in our bathroom tiles (as a result of a lithium fire that my father immediately suffocated), but up a bonding experience. Had I tried to disassemble the battery alone (ignoring for a moment how I'd have gotten my hands on it in the first place without my father's knowledge, perhaps by stealing a credit card or with an Alexa's assistance, as other posters have suggested might happen), I probably would have attempted to extinguish the burning lithium by pouring water on it, which I'm sure would have gone excellently :). I guess the moral of my story is that it's probably more effective to try to earn your kids' trust and ensure their safety yourself, rather than attempt to child-proof the rest of the world (with the assumption that your children will be going behind your back in their attempts to earn Darwin awards in new and exciting ways). [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BliWUHSOalU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BliWUHSOalU

Loughla 5y ago

You can buy most of these things on amazon with one click. Source: all of the chemicals I've purchased to blow up tree stumps and what-not that I'm sure have me on some watch list somewhere.

s0rce 5y ago
You can get thallium on Amazon? I can't think of a common consumer application of thallium is it in some product?
- duskwuff 5y ago
  There is at least one vendor selling a sample of thallium in an acrylic cube as a collector's item. Unclear how much is actually present, but any perceptible amount would be pretty dangerous if removed from its enclosure.
- dekhn 5y ago
  WARNING: this is serious stuff. Read https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/ershdb/emergencyresponsecard_29750026.html https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/ershdb/emergencyresponsecard_29750... and https://www.science.org/content/blog-post/thallium-poisoning-day-and-age https://www.science.org/content/blog-post/thallium-poisoning... and https://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/chemist-poisoning-death-nj/1971606/ https://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/chemist-poisoning... I think you have to go to specialty suppliers. https://luciteria.com/elements-for-sale/thallium-metal-9999 https://luciteria.com/elements-for-sale/thallium-metal-9999
  - s0rce 5y ago
    Yah, no shortage of suppliers for thallium, I was just surprised you could find it on Amazon since its not really used for any consumer product I was aware of https://www.alfa.com/en/catalog/012131/ https://www.alfa.com/en/catalog/012131/ https://www.sigmaaldrich.com/US/en/product/aldrich/277932 https://www.sigmaaldrich.com/US/en/product/aldrich/277932

marginalia_nu 5y ago

I get where you're coming from. I knew a kid who was really into making explosives, he ended up blowing himself up one night after cooking up a batch of TATP. Pretty tragic story, he was a bright kid. As I remember, I think he had a single mom who couldn't quite be there for him. I think the best way of dealing with that sort of situation is to find them a mentor or role model that can show them how it's actually done and turn the interest into something that can be explored safely. I think if my friend had actually known real chemists that could mentor him and that he could talk to about his projects, there's a chance he might have been alive today. There are things that have an element of danger, and then there are things that are reckless bordering on suicidal. Any real world chemist would probably just stare at you in disbelief if you told them you wanted to make TATP in your bedroom. That isn't just dangerous, it's moronic, beyond reckless. This stuff is highly explosive and notoriously difficult to handle because of its volatility and propensity for spontaneous detonation. You don't know that if you're 15 and getting all your advice from the Internet, though. You may even hear a nickname like "mother of satan" and think it sounds pretty cool. Turns out chemists usually give substances nicknames like that for a reason. I think what's the most dangerous is kids experimenting alone without any experience based advice from some dodgy internet forum.

Zak 5y ago
IIRC, it was terrorists, who often refuse to work with the stuff due to the danger involved, who named TATP "mother of satan".
- marginalia_nu 5y ago
  Ok, but my point remains. The fact it has a bad reputation for blowing people up among people who have a bad reputation for blowing people up is pretty telling.
  - Zak 5y ago
    I think it strengthens your point. We expect most chemists to be somewhat cautious and prudent, but not terrorists.

zen_1 5y ago

"All they need is a credit card and ..." The idea of children having access to a credit card strikes me as dangerous and irresponsible for many more reasons than just the odd chance that they use it to buy chemicals online. If you want to buy something as a child, you use cash or get a parent's permission. (Preempting the "ok boomer" responses, I'm 22 this year)

cableshaft 5y ago
It's possible they have access to the credit card without permission. Most people don't keep their credit cards locked up in a gun safe. Mine could be retrieved right now out of my wallet lying on a tray in my living room. I also don't have children, so I'm not particularly concerned personally. I haven't caught my dogs buying anything online yet.
- elliekelly 5y ago
  Children don't even need to root around in a parent's wallet. They can just ask Alexa.
- zen_1 5y ago
  Stealing your parent's credit card strikes me as the more pressing issue here, rather than a youtube video that shows you how to do something dangerous.
- vorpalhex 5y ago
  If your kid can and will do things like steal your credit card, make unauthorized purchases and buy explosives.. the problem is not that William Osman didn't wear PPE.
  - zen_1 5y ago
    I remember my own experience with "youtube explosives" as a kid. I'd watched NurdRage's video [1] on how to extract lithium from a certain type of battery and thought that sounded like fun, so I asked my father to help me get the batteries needed. When he then asked me why I needed this specific type of (not cheap) battery, I showed him [1] and he said "That looks dangerous and fun, let's do it together" (or something to that effect). One hour and some needle nose pliers later, we're down one battery and a burn hole in our bathroom tiles (as a result of a lithium fire that my father immediately suffocated), but up a bonding experience. Had I tried to disassemble the battery alone (ignoring for a moment how I'd have gotten my hands on it in the first place without my father's knowledge, perhaps by stealing a credit card or with an Alexa's assistance, as other posters have suggested might happen), I probably would have attempted to extinguish the burning lithium by pouring water on it, which I'm sure would have gone excellently :). I guess the moral of my story is that it's probably more effective to try to earn your kids' trust and ensure their safety yourself, rather than attempt to child-proof the rest of the world (with the assumption that your children will be going behind your back in their attempts to earn Darwin awards in new and exciting ways). [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BliWUHSOalU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BliWUHSOalU