4 ms·

So you’re basically saying, don’t use X tool chain because the 3rd party software doesn’t move on your pace? Or they have different “views” than yours? I don’t

So you’re basically saying, don’t use X tool chain because the 3rd party software doesn’t move on your pace? Or they have different “views” than yours? I don’t see how that makes any sense. Why do you have to be beholden 3rd party developers and the pace they work at?

slackfan 5y ago
I use software to build stuff, not to subscribe to a set of political ideologies.
- trentnix 5y ago
  A small, extremely loud, and extremely sanctimonious part of the population will not accept that. They will consider your lack of political motivation for your work distasteful and eventually immoral. You'll be asked to support movements, participate in ritual, and publicly proclaim your allegiance. Eventually, they'll demand it. “Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience. They may be more likely to go to Heaven yet at the same time likelier to make a Hell of earth. This very kindness stings with intolerable insult. To be "cured" against one's will and cured of states which we may not regard as disease is to be put on a level of those who have not yet reached the age of reason or those who never will; to be classed with infants, imbeciles, and domestic animals.” - C.S. Lewis
  - slackfan 5y ago
    Oh there's no eventually. They've been demanding it for years. There's a very good reason why some software on my machines is already pinned to specific versions, and will not under any circumstances be upgraded. Thankfully the field of software development has stagnated to the point that there really hasn't been any significant improvements to actual non-web software in about 15 years, so I'm looking forward to the brand new world with a stack of ancient machines, a bunch of boxes of capacitors, and a few hard drives' worth of abandonware, because frankly, fuck that noise THE AMISH WERE RIGHT.
  - beaconstudios 5y ago
    not every politics-adjacent thread needs to devolve into "the wokes are coming for us all". You can disagree with the actions of progressives without making it this all-encompassing threat. Hell, I'm pretty left-wing and I'm fairly critical of some of the factions. Either way, I can't see anybody putting "must add a BLM banner to their website" to the licensing conditions of their FOSS code.
    - slackfan 5y ago
      That would be a wonderful thing to able be do, if the woke brigade wasn't screaming "YOU'RE WITH US OR YOU'RE AGAINST US" a parent over. ;) Ignoring that isn't an option, unfortunately, believe me, that's been tried.
      - beaconstudios 5y ago
        Yeah but so what? Disagreements are going to happen in politics. Other people disliking your politics and vice-versa is not an existential threat. Anybody who legitimately makes a "liberals only" stand in their license will get forked and their usage will drop off.
      - slackfan 5y ago
        >yeah but so what Being silent about shitty behavior is the same as condoning it, don't you know? Just because you don't like the playbook doesn't mean it doesn't work. >Anybody who legitimately makes a "liberals only" stand in their license will get forked and their usage will drop off. Considering that the developer just pulled a "no russians" stand with their software...
        beaconstudios 5y ago
        > Being silent about shitty behavior is the same as condoning it, don't you know? Just because you don't like the playbook doesn't mean it doesn't work. my point is that it doesn't matter. Condemn or not, regardless you can still fork earlier versions. Materially, it's not a threat to you. > Considering that the developer just pulled a "no russians" stand with their software... Yeah and look at how much shit they're catching for it. People are forking and freezing earlier versions, he's getting raked through the coals, etc. Is this really the outcome conservatives are afraid of?
trentnix 5y ago
I'm not sure if you being purposely obtuse, but the idea that you'd build your software on top of a technology or platform that might introduce instability due to the whims or politics of its stewards is absolutely and obviously a risk worth considering.
bmj 5y ago
Did you read the parent article? But, in at least one case—the peacenotwar module in the node-ipc package—an update sabotages npm developers with code intended to wipe data stored in Russia and Belarus. In a March 16 blog post on the malicious code, Liran Tal at Snyk said, “This security incident involves destructive acts of corrupting files on disk by one maintainer and their attempts to hide and restate that deliberate sabotage in different forms.” This has nothing to do with pace of development, or even the political views of the developers. It has to do with inserting what is essentially malware into open source packages that affect users based on geo-location.
- extheat 5y ago
  OK, and how is this something unique to the Node.js package ecosystem? What's stopping someone on PyPI/some other PM from doing the same thing? I personally view these more as malicious copycat acts than anything inherent with the ecosystem. Should NPM start manually reviewing all of the packages that go through them, because the handful of abusers? I'm not so sure. The situation on languages without a widely used package manager/ecosystem like C++ I don't think is any better.
marcosdumay 5y ago
Well, do you think doing what you said is a bad policy? It looks pretty sane and effective to me. > Why do you have to be beholden 3rd party developers and the pace they work at? You don't "have to", you only are beholden to them if you use their software.

slackfan 5y ago

I use software to build stuff, not to subscribe to a set of political ideologies.

trentnix 5y ago
A small, extremely loud, and extremely sanctimonious part of the population will not accept that. They will consider your lack of political motivation for your work distasteful and eventually immoral. You'll be asked to support movements, participate in ritual, and publicly proclaim your allegiance. Eventually, they'll demand it. “Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience. They may be more likely to go to Heaven yet at the same time likelier to make a Hell of earth. This very kindness stings with intolerable insult. To be "cured" against one's will and cured of states which we may not regard as disease is to be put on a level of those who have not yet reached the age of reason or those who never will; to be classed with infants, imbeciles, and domestic animals.” - C.S. Lewis
- slackfan 5y ago
  Oh there's no eventually. They've been demanding it for years. There's a very good reason why some software on my machines is already pinned to specific versions, and will not under any circumstances be upgraded. Thankfully the field of software development has stagnated to the point that there really hasn't been any significant improvements to actual non-web software in about 15 years, so I'm looking forward to the brand new world with a stack of ancient machines, a bunch of boxes of capacitors, and a few hard drives' worth of abandonware, because frankly, fuck that noise THE AMISH WERE RIGHT.
- beaconstudios 5y ago
  not every politics-adjacent thread needs to devolve into "the wokes are coming for us all". You can disagree with the actions of progressives without making it this all-encompassing threat. Hell, I'm pretty left-wing and I'm fairly critical of some of the factions. Either way, I can't see anybody putting "must add a BLM banner to their website" to the licensing conditions of their FOSS code.
  - slackfan 5y ago
    That would be a wonderful thing to able be do, if the woke brigade wasn't screaming "YOU'RE WITH US OR YOU'RE AGAINST US" a parent over. ;) Ignoring that isn't an option, unfortunately, believe me, that's been tried.
    - beaconstudios 5y ago
      Yeah but so what? Disagreements are going to happen in politics. Other people disliking your politics and vice-versa is not an existential threat. Anybody who legitimately makes a "liberals only" stand in their license will get forked and their usage will drop off.
    - slackfan 5y ago
      >yeah but so what Being silent about shitty behavior is the same as condoning it, don't you know? Just because you don't like the playbook doesn't mean it doesn't work. >Anybody who legitimately makes a "liberals only" stand in their license will get forked and their usage will drop off. Considering that the developer just pulled a "no russians" stand with their software...
      - beaconstudios 5y ago
        > Being silent about shitty behavior is the same as condoning it, don't you know? Just because you don't like the playbook doesn't mean it doesn't work. my point is that it doesn't matter. Condemn or not, regardless you can still fork earlier versions. Materially, it's not a threat to you. > Considering that the developer just pulled a "no russians" stand with their software... Yeah and look at how much shit they're catching for it. People are forking and freezing earlier versions, he's getting raked through the coals, etc. Is this really the outcome conservatives are afraid of?

trentnix 5y ago

I'm not sure if you being purposely obtuse, but the idea that you'd build your software on top of a technology or platform that might introduce instability due to the whims or politics of its stewards is absolutely and obviously a risk worth considering.

bmj 5y ago

Did you read the parent article? But, in at least one case—the peacenotwar module in the node-ipc package—an update sabotages npm developers with code intended to wipe data stored in Russia and Belarus. In a March 16 blog post on the malicious code, Liran Tal at Snyk said, “This security incident involves destructive acts of corrupting files on disk by one maintainer and their attempts to hide and restate that deliberate sabotage in different forms.” This has nothing to do with pace of development, or even the political views of the developers. It has to do with inserting what is essentially malware into open source packages that affect users based on geo-location.

extheat 5y ago
OK, and how is this something unique to the Node.js package ecosystem? What's stopping someone on PyPI/some other PM from doing the same thing? I personally view these more as malicious copycat acts than anything inherent with the ecosystem. Should NPM start manually reviewing all of the packages that go through them, because the handful of abusers? I'm not so sure. The situation on languages without a widely used package manager/ecosystem like C++ I don't think is any better.

marcosdumay 5y ago

Well, do you think doing what you said is a bad policy? It looks pretty sane and effective to me. > Why do you have to be beholden 3rd party developers and the pace they work at? You don't "have to", you only are beholden to them if you use their software.